You can't be a Christian and...

[PollyJetix]

What you call conservatives are not. They are legalists. Big difference.

You know what? I have seen much judgmentalism toward "legalists" from those who think they are not legalists.
But they just have a different set of rules they use to pass judgment on those whom they think don't measure up.

You see, NOT keeping a set of rules can actually be a rule in itself, that we use to measure others, and pass judgment on them.
We have other rules, though, like "no homosexuality" or "no women preachers" or "no public nakedness" that we use wrongly... which is the real problem with rules.

Rules are not wrong.
It's where they come from, and why we keep them, and how we use them on others, that makes them wrong.

And these things are mostly matters of the heart, which only God can know.

You see, I come from the Mennonites. They have all kinds of rules. But they do not view these rules as a way to get to heaven. (Not most of them that I have known, anyhow.)
They see the rules as a way to make sure they are mindful of God's principles of modesty, humility, etc.
And if they are used in that way, God sees the heart, and I don't think he minds.

After all, we all know God commands, for instance, modesty. God forbids nakedness.
Therefore, we all draw a line somewhere, to forbid anything beyond that, for ourselves and our children.
God doesn't spell things out all the time.
What was scandalous in skirt length for the 1700's became the standard of modesty in the early 1900's.
And what was once modest in trouser length (and fit) in the 1700's became scandalous in the 1900's.

You yourself have definitions of what is "scandalous" for beach wear.
What makes them scandalous?
Is it what God said in the Bible?
Or do you allow the changing winds of societal fashions to dictate your conscience?

Personally, I believe that when God replaced those fig leaf aprons Adam and Eve had sewn together, with "coats" of animal skins, He was making a statement about what He considers clothing. Too flimsy, too revealing... Not that I believe all clothing must be from animal skins, of course... but most modern beach wear would profit from the addition of a fig leaf apron.

Just an observation.
Not a statement of condemnation.

And that's the difference between discernment and passing judgment on people.
We all have to have discernment. We all have to have rules of behavior.
But we are not called to condemn others.

Too many people pass judgment on those they think are "legalistic"... which makes them "legalists" of another sort.
Think about it.

 

[Rickyd213]

I'm sorry, I think I missed the part of the Bible were Jesus says being a Christian meant one needed to be *sinless, *broke, *never get angry, *never do something you may later regret etc..... who comes up with these absurd threads anyway? Not only is it bad theology, but it's just bad advice in general! God doesn't expect perfection, that's why we are called HUMANS and God is called GOD. If we overnight became perfect we would cease to be human and we would cease to Need the saving grace of Jesus Christ! Call me old fashioned, but I don't think I'd want to live in a world were no one made mistakes or were there was no regret. One of the strange things about being human is that through our faults and our sins, it's how we learn without the ability to learn we would also lose the ability to forgive or to love or to come to a deeper knowledge of Jesus Christ. And as for the rich argument, to whom much is given, much is expected. God doesn't want his children to be homeless and destitute, and sometimes God blesses some of his children more than others, but it then becomes the responsibility of those he twice blesses to give aid and assistance to those less fortunate!
Next time you all are feeling high and mighty and decide to make absurd proclamations on the divine from your living room couch, don't. Try first pulling out the plank from your own eye before looking for the splinter in someone else's.

 

[Shempster]

The way I see sin is that it is necessary to understand the greatness of God. The thing is that when it happens the Holy Spirit tells you right away. Its at this point you see the true contrast between God's character and the Devils. Then, you consider the fallout that comes next and decide that the sin is not good for you, hurts others and the Father. Then you make the conscious choice to detest the sin and Love God.

It seems to be an endless cycle, but it doesn't have to be.
Over time you should have less and less sin. If so then you can see the pattern of growth and relax a bit. You're fine.

 

[seashale76]

You cannot be a Christian and deny the resurrection of Christ.


I Cor 15:17

If Christ is not risen then your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.


You cannot be a Christian and believe that anything or anyone other than Christ can save you.


Acts 4:12

Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”


John 6: 35-40

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me,that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[Ron Gurley]

True spiritually born again from above Christ-followers continue to sin, fall short of the perfect glory of God. They do not lose their salvation when they sin, to whatever degree. They are FORGIVEN because of the Holy Blood of Jesus the God-Man shed FOR them.

1 John 1...God Is Light
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP (no sin barrier!) with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not PRACTICE the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light (FOLLOW Jesus' example) as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we (Believers after salvation) say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we CONFESS (agree with God about) our sins, He is faithful and righteous to FORGIVE us our sins and to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:2
and He (Jesus) Himself is the propitiation (satisfaction before God) FOR our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation FOR our sins.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins BY His blood—

 

[Grandpa2390]

... Hate Christ?

 

[Rachel96]

Sometimes the lines Christians draw about how is and is not a Christian seem a bit funny to me. I had a conversation the other day with a Christian couple was a bit odd, because the discussion of anything we had done was followed with the question, "What this when you were a Christian yet?", or maybe (in my case, having been "born" a Christian), "Are you sure that's a very Christian thing to do?"

Sometimes it was perfectly innocuous things to do, but they had a problem with it. I play fiddle in several Celtic dance bands. "Are you sure that's good thing for a Christian to do?" (dancing is evil, you see).

My father used to smoke, decades ago, and it continued for a few years after he became a Christian. (Long before I was born). "You smoked? Was this when you were a Christian?" And I'm just thinking, you're both divorced, and living together unmarried, and drinking wine at our dining table, and you're being judgemental about someone smoking 30 years ago?

 

[Rachel96]

Theologically, I'd say... I get a bit nervous around non-Trinitarianism. I'm not going to judge whether someone else is a Christian or not... but that's where I get dubious. Whether it's Arianism, or some sort of modern "Jesus was the bastard child of a Roman soldier and Mary just told the God story to cover it up" or "Jesus was a brilliant human, he said and did lots of good things"... so many bits just fall out of place if you remove the Jesus-is-true-God-of-true-God concept, I don't even understand how non-Trinitarians can explain the mechanics of salvation without it.

 

[Open Heart]

Yes it is! Adding to it, altering it, taking away from it are all forbidden.

Adding to it and saying it's the Torah is forbidden. Adding to the book of Revelation is forbidden.

It is not forbidden to for example, have Oral Torah (case law) as per Deuteronomy 17:8-13. Nor is it forbidden to have teachings apart from Scripture, as the Apostles taught the Gospel for many years before the gospels were even written.

 

[ViaCrucis]

One can be a Christian and do all manner of awful and unChristian things. Indeed, every single one of us fits that description every hour of every day, because we are all wretched sinners.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Goodbook]

Hmm interesting topic!
One thats been going through my mind lately is you cant be a christian if you do not want to do what Jesus commands.

I.e love God and love your neighbour as you love God.

But more basically you cant be a christian if you dont know who Jesus is.

 

[jesse67]

You can't be a Christian if you are a king and sleep with another man's wife and send her husband to the battle front to have him killed so you can marry the adulterous wife. Oh wait, that's what King David did.

 

[Neogaia777]

You can't be a Christian if you are a king and sleep with another man's wife and send her husband to the battle front to have him killed so you can marry the adulterous wife. Oh wait, that's what King David did.

David believed in and did not deny the power of God's great Love, being mercy, long-suffering (with David) God's undeserved, unmerited, kindness, and forgiveness, with David, if he (David) was truly repentant from his heart and changed those ways with God's help, and did not walk in them anymore, a.k.a., "born-again"...

David's being forgiven, is a testimony and testament to the great, wonderful and glorious nature of our God toward sin and sinners... David fell, probably literally, threw himself on the mercy of God, and in that way was a man after God's own heart... We should all be so of such a deep repentant nature as David was with his sin, with our sin toward God... In that way he is an excellent example for us all...

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

You cannot be a christian and not throw yourself upon the mercy of God...

 

[Neogaia777]

You cannot be a christian and not throw yourself upon the mercy of God...

God would rather have someone who may be a much worse sinner than someone else, who would throw themselves upon his great mercy and love and be truly repentant, than someone with the attitude of "My sin is not that bad, not as bad as "that guy"..." or be stoic about it and be denying their sin before God (which is what I actually think he detests, maybe even hates) and be denying or brushing off and pushing or brushing aside their sin(s) regardless of how bad, or not so bad they are...

God would prefer a David, over a self-righteous Pharisee, so to speak... Would rather have one who is very, very and is constantly and consistently aware of their great, dire, desperate need, and utterly lost, otherwise, dependence on him (God) than the other kind of person...

In this David is an excellent example for us all...

The angels in heaven rejoice greatly over one sinner who repents, rather than 99 who have no need of repentance... (or have very little need of God vs. someone who can't see themselves even breathing without him in their lives)...

What is it, where (when) Jesus told a parable and asked Peter who the master would love or which kind of person would love the master, the more...?

The one who was forgiven much, and loved much, right...?

God Bless!

 

[bugkiller]

Wondering everyone's thoughts what is and is not permissible and still, in all honesty, consider yourself a Christian. I'd like to keep the topic is non-judgmental as possible, so when considering the definition of a Christian, use yourself for said examination. In other words:

"If I did <X> I couldn't consider myself to really be Christian." Define X. Be as general or specific as you wish, but please back up any claims with Scripture.

Example:

You can't be a Christian and hate your brother or sister (1 John 4:20).

Way to many look for what they can get by with. For those I ask what is in your heart?

That said have you read what Paul said the Corinthians were doing and called them saints? Am I promoting sin? No!!!!

bugkiller

 

[Pastor Jay Randolph]

Wondering everyone's thoughts what is and is not permissible and still, in all honesty, consider yourself a Christian. I'd like to keep the topic is non-judgmental as possible, so when considering the definition of a Christian, use yourself for said examination. In other words:

"If I did <X> I couldn't consider myself to really be Christian." Define X. Be as general or specific as you wish, but please back up any claims with Scripture.

Example:

You can't be a Christian and hate your brother or sister (1 John 4:20).

John 3:15-18 (KJV)

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;
but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart
that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 14:10 (KJV)

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you
I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


We are to love God with all that we have and are.
If God is our 1st love, we would never alter from Jesus Christ.

For example: if my Bride knew I would forgive her for hurting me.
So she goes ahead and hurts me. I can forgive her for hurting me.
But what does that say about her love for me. Do you hurt somebody you love more than anything else?
You can justify it in your mind, but can you justify it in the heart?

 

[Yahchristian]

Wondering everyone's thoughts what is and is not permissible and still, in all honesty, consider yourself a Christian. I'd like to keep the topic is non-judgmental as possible, so when considering the definition of a Christian, use yourself for said examination. In other words:

"If I did <X> I couldn't consider myself to really be Christian." Define X. Be as general or specific as you wish, but please back up any claims with Scripture.

Example:

You can't be a Christian and hate your brother or sister (1 John 4:20).

Oops!

In order for the thread to be non-judgmental, you asked for posts like... If I did <X> I couldn't consider myself to really be Christian.

But your own personal example was... You can't be a Christian and hate your brother or sister (1 John 4:20).


P.S.

If I said Jesus was not Lord or Jesus did not rise from the dead I couldn't consider myself to really be Christian.

Romans 10:9... That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[98cwitr]

Touche

 

[Goodbook]

Oh did i do it wrong.

if I dont follow or listen to what Jesus says I cant call myself a christian.

Scripture.....
This is my beloved son..with whom i am well pleased. Listen to him! Luke 9:35