Yo, why do Catholics call the pope "holy father" when...?

Rhamiel

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Then what is the true number? No one knows.

As to the number of Catholic 'denominations', the Christian World Database had 242 listed, one for each of the countries represented on the database.

But in truth, I know really how many Catholic denominations exist.

Zero.


so yeah, 242 Catholic "denominations"
so we can see that these numbers are not actuate

for example, there are many Calvinist Baptist Churches, each individual church is interdependent
but they agree on theology and they work together
I think you should look at different "faith traditions" rather then look at each individual denomination
I think this is a more realistic way of looking at this situation
 
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Elysium

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so yeah, 242 Catholic "denominations"
so we can see that these numbers are not actuate

for example, there are many Calvinist Baptist Churches, each individual church is interdependent
but they agree on theology and they work together
I

i doubt they agree on everything
there is no unity there, nothing to stop a particular congregation frmo changing its mind on some aspect of theology

they might loosely follow calvinism or baptist principles but i doubt we can call them unified or say they agree about everyhting
 
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Rhamiel

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i doubt they agree on everything
there is no unity there, nothing to stop a particular congregation frmo changing its mind on some aspect of theology

they might loosely follow calvinism or baptist principles but i doubt we can call them unified or say they agree about everyhting

what do we mean by "everyting"?
this is an outsider talking, but Calvinism seemed rather monochromatic to me
yeah there might be a few differences
but on the major theological and social issues a lot of them do agree with eachother and do work together in lots of ways.
 
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Michie

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i doubt they agree on everything
there is no unity there, nothing to stop a particular congregation frmo changing its mind on some aspect of theology

they might loosely follow calvinism or baptist principles but i doubt we can call them unified or say they agree about everyhting
They don't. As a former protestant, I can tell you that much. It may be the same denom as the Church across town but they are different in various ways. It may be end time views, speaking in tongues, or just not liking something or other the other church under the same name across town does.

That's a big reason for Church splits & groups stating another Church. Along with church shopping that is so prevalent among protestant brethren. I used to do the same.

There is a lot variety under the same banners of belief. That is why there is so many differing interpretations of Scripture. Along with parsing of Scripture out of context to suit certain views.

I love the protestant brethren & owe a lot to them but they are not without their problems just as we are. But they have no real authority to keep these differing beliefs & opinion in line. So everyone is pretty much on their own to seek out what its their comfort level. Or not. There are a lot of protestant believers that do not attend Church at all.
 
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JesusIsTheSonOfGod

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I advise all to read chapter Matthew 23 which addresses the Seven Woes.


Seven Woes
Matthew 23:1-39 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

“Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
________________________________________________________________________________________________

QUOTE: (Acts 13:32-35) “We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:

“‘You are my Son;

today I have become your Father.’

The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:

“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

So it is stated elsewhere:

“‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’
 
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Michie

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Actually I don't see much problem with this.
If Jesus looked at the Church of any era, he would find good and bad teachers.

The thing that we should note about Matthew 23 is that Jesus tells US to be obedient to the teachings of those who sit on Moses seat (now the seat of Peter) regardless of the acts of the individual teachers. In this way we remain faithful to Christ.

So - remain faithful to the teachings of the Church. Where there are sinful teachers, they can be easily recognized and prayed for....
 
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JesusIsTheSonOfGod

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That's about hypocrites. Having the veneer of faith but not adhering to the things they load on the backs of the people. It is not about the RCC as a lot of protestants try to infer.

I did not say it was about RCC. The bible does not mentioned the word Roman Catholic Church, so do not add into God's word or subtract from it according to verse Revelation 22:18-19. The bible does not mentioned any other denominations either, the bible only mentions the words "Teachers of the Law, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans." According to Jesus testimony in the bible, Jesus Christ has warned many on earth to not partake in the evil works of the Teachers of the Law, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans.

Whatever belief/teachings the Teachers of the Law, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans have produced according to the bible should be discerned and compared with other denominations/religions to see rather today's churches/practices that people attend/follow is of God.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

QUOTE: (Acts 13:32-35) “We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:

“‘You are my Son;

today I have become your Father.’

The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:

“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

So it is stated elsewhere:

“‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’
 
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Michie

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I did not say it was about RCC. The bible does not mentioned the word Roman Catholic Church, so do not add into God's word or subtract from it according to verse Revelation 22:18-19. The bible does not mentioned any other denominations either, the bible only mentions the words "Teachers of the Law, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans. Jesus Christ warn many on earth to not partake in the evil works of the Teachers of the Law, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans.

Whatever belief/teachings the teachers of the law, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans have produced according to the bible should be discerned and compared with other denominations/religions to see rather the churches/practices that people attend/follow is of God.
So what s your point in posting Matthew 23 then?

You do realize that back in Jesus' day there was no Christian Bible as we refer to today... right?

This Scripture is about hypocrites. Publically displaying religious facade but being full of dead men's bones. A hypocrite. All show & no substance.

Using religion to not do the right thing. For instance, saying I can't help my or mother because I must buy an unblemished lamb for temple. Etc.

What Jesus criticized can be applied to any religious organization, whether it's Pharisaic Judaism, the institutional Vatican, or the Southern Baptist Convention. No human institution is perfect.

The solution is not to destroy the institution (and Jesus never recommended disbanding the Jewish authority structures), but infusing the institution with new life, by reminding people of the true essentials of religion: see all men and women as brothers and sisters under one God, and being humble and a servant to all living beings.

So what are you trying to convey?
 
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JesusIsTheSonOfGod

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Originally Posted by Michie
You do realize that back in Jesus' day there was no Christian Bible as we refer to today... right?
In the New Testament, many of the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law used verses from the book of the Old testament scriptures to refute Jesus statements/claims while he was teaching at the Synagogues according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Even Jesus refuted Satan by using the Old testament verses through the prophets from the book.

HERE. READ VERSE MATTHEW 4:1-11:

The Temptation of Jesus
Matthew 4:1-11 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”

Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

QUOTE: (Acts 13:32-35) “We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:

“‘You are my Son;

today I have become your Father.’

The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:

“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

So it is stated elsewhere:

“‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’
 
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Michie

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What do you think those writings were? I'd be interested.

Exploring the development of the Canon of Scripture is essential. It did not exist as a Bible as we know it, until after Christ's death. Well after. So what was being spoken of in Revelation?
 
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JesusIsTheSonOfGod

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Oh..before I forget.. Revelation 22:18-19

Instead of hinting Catholics added to Scripture, it's that protestants subtracted from it.

What do you think those writings were? I'd be interested.

Exploring the development of the Canon of Scripture is essential. It did not exist as a Bible as we know it, until after Christ's death. Well after. So what was being spoken of in Revelation?

I do not get your question and even if I tell you to clarify what you mean, I still won't get it because your question has nothing to do with the word of God.
___________________________________________________________________________________

QUOTE: If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Hebrews 10:26)

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (1 John 3:6)

"Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." (2 Timothy 2:19)
 
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Michie

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I do not get your question and even if I tell you to clarify what you mean, I still won't get it because your question has nothing to do with the word of God.
It has everything to do with the Word of God.

And your reply makes no sense either. And you have not answered any of my questions but it is probably or the best as you are not allowed to debate in OBOB anyway. Just own it & stop playing games. I'm not a cradle catholic & I'm quite familiar with these tactics. Catholics are not Sola Scriptura. Before you object, as I told you before...you need to study up.

It is however a fact in history that the Protestant Bible has 7 books missing as well as numerious changes to various text.

Further the very good number of Protestant denominations is a result of personal interpetation also forbidden by the bible.

So again, what is your point?
 
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Originally Posted by Michie
So what s your point in posting Matthew 23 then?
Because the OP was referring to Matthew 23 in her post, so I thought it would be a good idea to post the whole chapter for everyone to read so maybe they will see clearly about the topic that is being addressed by the OP.
 
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JesusIsTheSonOfGod

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Originally Posted by Michie
So what s your point in posting Matthew 23 then?
Because the OP was referring to Matthew 23 in her post. So I thought it would be a good idea to post the whole chapter for everyone to read so maybe they will see clearly about the topic that is being addressed by the OP.
 
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Michie

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Originally Posted by Michie


Because the OP posted verse Matthew 23.
Did you read anything else? If you did I think you would not have found reason to post Scripture that has nothing to do with what the op was inferring unless you agree with the op. You & the op seem one of the same. I want to know how you think the Scriptures you posted from Matthew & Revelation apply to Catholics exactly.
 
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Originally Posted by Michie
What do you think those writings were? I'd be interested.
This is the question I do not get and the stuff that you was saying about Protestants and etc, Protestants is not mentioned in the bible, that's why I said it had nothing to do with the word of God.
 
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