Yin and Yang? Not in My Bible!

[Treeplanter]

The Far Eastern/Chinese concept of Yin and Yang, as I understand it, is a function of dualism wherein two seemingly diametric forces, in actuality, complement and balance one another in equal and perfect harmony

The Christian God, as described in scripture, is a dualistic divinity

The biblical God is presented, primarily, as both a god of LOVE and a HOLY god


What, then, IS love?

Love, in short, is wanting what the other needs

To love is to place another ahead of one’s self

To love is to value what is in the best interest of the recipient; above and beyond what is in the best interest of the benefactor

Love is outwardly directed

Love, by definition, is selflessness


And what, then, IS holiness?

Holiness, in short, is ‘set apartness’

To be holy is to be separate and special and unique and one of a kind

To be holy is to be exalted, atop a pedestal, and praised as an unswervingly righteous object worthy of complete and unwavering devotion

Holiness is inwardly directed

Holiness, by definition, is selfishness


Many Christians with whom I have conversed would have me believe that God is equal parts loving and holy

That God is every bit as much concerned with us as He is with Himself

However, I see no such Yin and Yang present in the Christian God!

God may well be LOVE and we may well be the recipient and intended executor of this secondary and outwardly directed nature of God, but there is no denying that, first and foremost, God is said to be HOLY

{i.e. 'set apart' and of an inwardly directed valuation demanding absolute primacy}



The fact, per scripture, is this:

God created us, the earth, the universe, and the whole of existence itself FOR HIS OWN GLORY!

See Isaiah 43:7
“everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”

Clearly, God’s holiness, not His love, is emphasized

“Holy, holy, holy
Is the Lord God Almighty”
{Revelation 4:8}

Holy, holy, holy
Not love, love, love!

Nowhere does scripture take such care as to thricely ascribe, to God, the attribute of love – just holiness!

And as if we needed any further confirmation that God’s holiness trumps His love, we have the words of Jesus Christ, Himself:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
{Matthew 22:36-39}

First and greatest!

That we love Him {i.e. satisfy His holiness} is FIRST AND GREATEST!

Loving our neighbor is, by definition, of secondary importance
Loving our neighbor, while great, is NOT AS great as loving God


I have a hard time reconciling, as moral, ANYONE who is more concerned with his/her own glorification than they are with the ultimate welfare of others, but I find it especially difficult to do so when said being is reputed to be perfect...

Is there anyone who can and will argue that selfishness is a morally superior position to selflessness?

 

[com7fy8]

Is there anyone who can and will argue that selfishness is a morally superior position to selflessness?

no

But it depends on what someone considers to be selflessness.

 

[com7fy8]

I have a hard time reconciling, as moral, ANYONE who is more concerned with his/her own glorification than they are with the ultimate welfare of others, but I find it especially difficult to do so when said being is reputed to be perfect...

Yes God is love. And He is holy, meaning He is not like all which He has created. Being holy has to do with how He is superior to how humans are. His love, then, is superior.

 

[Treeplanter]

no

But it depends on what someone considers to be selflessness.

Can we agree that God, as described in scripture, is more concerned with the HOLY aspect of His nature than He is with the LOVE aspect of His nature?

 

[Treeplanter]

Yes God is love. And He is holy, meaning He is not like all which He has created. Being holy has to do with how He is superior to how humans are. His love, then, is superior.

Holiness isn't just being superior to man - it's also being recognized as such, no?

 

[Mark Quayle]

The Far Eastern/Chinese concept of Yin and Yang, as I understand it, is a function of dualism wherein two seemingly diametric forces, in actuality, complement and balance one another in equal and perfect harmony

The Christian God, as described in scripture, is a dualistic divinity

The biblical God is presented, primarily, as both a god of LOVE and a HOLY god


What, then, IS love?

Love, in short, is wanting what the other needs

To love is to place another ahead of one’s self

To love is to value what is in the best interest of the recipient; above and beyond what is in the best interest of the benefactor

Love is outwardly directed

Love, by definition, is selflessness


And what, then, IS holiness?

Holiness, in short, is ‘set apartness’

To be holy is to be separate and special and unique and one of a kind

To be holy is to be exalted, atop a pedestal, and praised as an unswervingly righteous object worthy of complete and unwavering devotion

Holiness is inwardly directed

Holiness, by definition, is selfishness


Many Christians with whom I have conversed would have me believe that God is equal parts loving and holy

That God is every bit as much concerned with us as He is with Himself

However, I see no such Yin and Yang present in the Christian God!

God may well be LOVE and we may well be the recipient and intended executor of this secondary and outwardly directed nature of God, but there is no denying that, first and foremost, God is said to be HOLY

{i.e. 'set apart' and of an inwardly directed valuation demanding absolute primacy}



The fact, per scripture, is this:

God created us, the earth, the universe, and the whole of existence itself FOR HIS OWN GLORY!

See Isaiah 43:7
“everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”

Clearly, God’s holiness, not His love, is emphasized

“Holy, holy, holy
Is the Lord God Almighty”
{Revelation 4:8}

Holy, holy, holy
Not love, love, love!

Nowhere does scripture take such care as to thricely ascribe, to God, the attribute of love – just holiness!

And as if we needed any further confirmation that God’s holiness trumps His love, we have the words of Jesus Christ, Himself:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
{Matthew 22:36-39}

First and greatest!

That we love Him {i.e. satisfy His holiness} is FIRST AND GREATEST!

Loving our neighbor is, by definition, of secondary importance
Loving our neighbor, while great, is NOT AS great as loving God


I have a hard time reconciling, as moral, ANYONE who is more concerned with his/her own glorification than they are with the ultimate welfare of others, but I find it especially difficult to do so when said being is reputed to be perfect...

Is there anyone who can and will argue that selfishness is a morally superior position to selflessness?

Well, I can agree in part: The God of scripture is no yin-yang proposition.

You seem to have an assumption that we can hold God to our concepts of such subjects as love and holiness, selflessness and selfishness.

 

[Strathos]

no

But it depends on what someone considers to be selflessness.

Ayn Rand fans would.

 

[Treeplanter]

Well, I can agree in part: The God of scripture is no yin-yang proposition.

You seem to have an assumption that we can hold God to our concepts of such subjects as love and holiness, selflessness and selfishness.

And what, exactly, is the takeaway?

Yes, God does value Himself {and His glorification} more than He does us {His creation/children} and we are to just accept this as good and moral because we are in no position to judge Him?

 

[dóxatotheó]

Love, in short, is wanting what the other needs

Your definition of love sounds kinda non-ethical what i define Love as in short well is emphatically altruistic if you want a simple definition i presume.

To love is to place another ahead of one’s self

Again another view of love that no philosopher held.

To love is to value what is in the best interest of the recipient; above and beyond what is in the best interest of the benefactor

Again another view of love no philosopher held you might aswell read Socrates my brother.

Love is outwardly directed

Love is outwardly directed if the recipient is the same as the individual that he feels love towards.

Love, by definition, is selflessness

This is the only one I agree with because Plato and Aristotle held to this at least.

Holiness, in short, is ‘set apartness’

WHAT?

To be holy is to be separate and special and unique and one of a kind

That definition of holy doesn't even align with the webster dictionary let alone with ethics.

To be holy is to be exalted, atop a pedestal, and praised as an unswervingly righteous object worthy of complete and unwavering devotion

Stop a pedestal? but yes

God is equal parts loving and holy

We believe in Divine Simplicity when you reference God being loving or holy they are always identical to him not a part of him because predication's doesn't have multiple modes or forms or parts to a singularity.

That God is every bit as much concerned with us as He is with Himself

I guess; don't turn this to a fallacy though.

However, I see no such Yin and Yang present in the Christian God

Don't compare Chinese's philosophies to our religion and do you know the origin of Yin Yang? Secondly, we believe in a perfect God not a dualist God, we believe in Classical Theism.

God may well be LOVE and we may well be the recipient and intended executor of this secondary and outwardly directed nature of God, but there is no denying that, first and foremost, God is said to be HOLY

Like I stated before God isn't in parts so the original argument fails, God can be holy and loving gotta recur to simple ethics at least. Also IDK what you mean by directed from his nature; I presume you mean it's an act of his nature which I agree with but you must realize God doesn't change or act different as which he refers as all in regards to his love as God is Love. When we refer to God as holy it's him also in reference to his love because you can be holy and be loving as well, as God is both of those.

God created us, the earth, the universe, and the whole of existence itself FOR HIS OWN GLORY!

Right? What you think for his glory mean?

Clearly, God’s holiness, not His love, is emphasized

When they all God holy they meaning how sovereign he is.

Holy, holy, holy
Not love, love, love!

What you define holy isn't what the bible defines holy as and how does holiness take away God being all love, you literally eisegesing this verse right now.

Nowhere does scripture take such care as to thricely ascribe, to God, the attribute of love – just holiness!

read 1 John quite false assertion

First and greatest!
That we love Him {i.e. satisfy His holiness} is FIRST AND GREATEST!

Are you really quoting Jesus stating the shema as an argument against God? Also what Jesus meant by that is by having full praise, and faith in God because he is forgiving you and granting you eternal life even when you have fallen from grace which I don't see whats wrong with that and God isn't anthropomorphic to satisfaction isn't equated by man who constantly breaks those commands.

Loving our neighbor is, by definition, of secondary importance
Loving our neighbor, while great, is NOT AS great as loving God

How in anyway is loving sinners as good as loving the creator they both are mutually exclusive when you define regular love in Artistotles view but Platos view of love shows why love is greator in the eyes of God than man.
Plato on Love - Oxford Handbooks

I have a hard time reconciling, as moral,

This is not a moral discussion this isn't even by definition a moral discussion man.

ANYONE who is more concerned with his/her own glorification than they are with the ultimate welfare of others,

Does a Classical Theist God with no anthropomorphic qualities somehow grant some new view concerning his creation, when in reality he does care for his creation is why, he died on the cross, forgave our transgressions, and pulls us out this world during the second coming.

but I find it especially difficult to do so when said being is reputed to be perfect.

Define to me what your view of a perfect God is.

Is there anyone who can and will argue that selfishness is a morally superior position to selflessness?

Being selfish is unethical is why God isn't selfish as shown throughout the NT and OT selflessness is obviously a superior worldview and you should define to me what your philosophy of selflessness is before I define mines.

 

[Mark Quayle]

And what, exactly, is the takeaway?

Yes, God does value Himself {and His glorification} more than He does us {His creation/children} and we are to just accept this as good and moral because we are in no position to judge Him?

Why not?

But we can also see more than your small narrative, here.

We do know, by reason if no other way, that God (first cause) is far beyond our understanding, though we do understand enough to realize we don't have enough knowledge by which to judge him. A little humility next to the one and only Sovereign, Omnipotent, Supreme is a fitting way to begin the question.

 

[Treeplanter]

Ayn Rand fans would.

I'm not sure it's fair to ascribe "selfishness" - as I have utilized the term - to Ayn Rand and her followers...

 

[dóxatotheó]

Yes, God does value Himself {and His glorification} more than He does us {His creation/children} and we are to just accept this as good and moral because we are in no position to judge Him?

This isn't a moral problem this is a ethical problem. Secondly, God's values ain't gonna be subjected to the fallen man nor would we state we are equally valuable to God when in reality we not. Also, we shouldn't question sovereignty as we aren't divine. Also, when we die we would be back in the likeness of him since we aren't anymore, God chooses to send his Son etc. so we will get back in it is what you define selfishness as I presume your definition is lost. We should note;God's love isn't defined by creation it is defined by his Nature

 

[com7fy8]

Can we agree that God, as described in scripture, is more concerned with the HOLY aspect of His nature than He is with the LOVE aspect of His nature?

no

But there can be places in scripture where God being holy is given more attention, than to God being love.

But He can't have the one without the other.

He can't be holy without being love; He can't be love without being holy.

You seem like you have some concern . . . or a lot of concern . . . that God gets praised because of His holiness.

Well, among humans there can be different ways that you might praise another human. It can be only because you consider him or her to be greater than you, though he or she has done nothing good for you. Or, the person is so good for you that you deeply appreciate the person and you are glad the person is greater than you so he or she can do you good which you can't do for yourself.

What God wants, I would say, is that He has proven Himself to us, in us, doing us such good > in His holiness of His love He has done us such good, that we appreciate this and thank Him. His holy love is so better for us, than how we have been human in our ways of loving.

By holy I mean not creature in quality and ability. And it is very good for us, how God is not only human and creature in quality and ability, but He is holy and love.

 

[com7fy8]

Holiness isn't just being superior to man - it's also being recognized as such, no?

It is good to recognize how God is holy and recognize that this can be good for us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Christian God, as described in scripture, is a dualistic divinity

Incorrect...

God is both Triune and Monotheistic.

There is no dualism in the Godhead - this is an Eastern concept and is a deception.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

The Far Eastern/Chinese concept of Yin and Yang, as I understand it, is a function of dualism wherein two seemingly diametric forces, in actuality, complement and balance one another in equal and perfect harmony

The Christian God, as described in scripture, is a dualistic divinity

The biblical God is presented, primarily, as both a god of LOVE and a HOLY god

I do not see God as being dualistic in Scripture, nor do I see a yin and yang here (which is part of a completely different religion).

However, you are correct in saying that God in Scripture is both a God of love and is holy. Where I disagree with you is in definitions and conclusions.

What, then, IS love?

Love, in short, is wanting what the other needs

To love is to place another ahead of one’s self

To love is to value what is in the best interest of the recipient; above and beyond what is in the best interest of the benefactor

Love is outwardly directed

Love, by definition, is selflessness

I can agree with you mostly on your definition of love here.

And what, then, IS holiness?

Holiness, in short, is ‘set apartness’

I am with you so far.

I went to a very memorable Christian Conference that was put on by Youth For Christ while I was in high school. One of the topics that was emphasized was “Set Apart,” which definitely has to do with holiness. This is also seen in Scripture when God talks about objects in the temple being holy/set apart, and even how he talks about people being holy/set apart.

To be holy is to be separate and special and unique and one of a kind

To be holy is to be exalted, atop a pedestal, and praised as an unswervingly righteous object worthy of complete and unwavering devotion

Holiness is inwardly directed

Holiness, by definition, is selfishness

This is where I begin to differ from you, especially the last part you wrote there. According to the Bible, people can be made holy by God. This certainly doesn’t mean that those individuals should be exalted or praised or worthy of devotion.

Holiness is neither inward or outwardly directed, as I understand the concept.

God’s holiness is definitely different from any other kind, but that doesn’t make His holiness selfish. (And selfishness can’t really be an attribute of God anyway, when you consider all that Scripture says about God. Selfishness is a human problem).

Many Christians with whom I have conversed would have me believe that God is equal parts loving and holy

That God is every bit as much concerned with us as He is with Himself

However, I see no such Yin and Yang present in the Christian God!

God may well be LOVE and we may well be the recipient and intended executor of this secondary and outwardly directed nature of God, but there is no denying that, first and foremost, God is said to be HOLY

{i.e. 'set apart' and of an inwardly directed valuation demanding absolute primacy}

The fact, per scripture, is this:

God created us, the earth, the universe, and the whole of existence itself FOR HIS OWN GLORY!

See Isaiah 43:7
“everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”

Clearly, God’s holiness, not His love, is emphasized

“Holy, holy, holy
Is the Lord God Almighty”
{Revelation 4:8}

Holy, holy, holy
Not love, love, love!

Nowhere does scripture take such care as to thricely ascribe, to God, the attribute of love – just holiness!

And as if we needed any further confirmation that God’s holiness trumps His love, we have the words of Jesus Christ, Himself:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
{Matthew 22:36-39}

First and greatest!

That we love Him {i.e. satisfy His holiness} is FIRST AND GREATEST!

Loving our neighbor is, by definition, of secondary importance
Loving our neighbor, while great, is NOT AS great as loving God

God’s holiness is not in opposition to His love.

God’s love is all over the Bible. Here are a few examples:


16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 3:16-17 NASB 95


But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8 NASB 95


The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.
1 John 4:8-12 NASB 95

There are many other examples in the Bible.

I have a hard time reconciling, as moral, ANYONE who is more concerned with his/her own glorification than they are with the ultimate welfare of others, but I find it especially difficult to do so when said being is reputed to be perfect...

Is there anyone who can and will argue that selfishness is a morally superior position to selflessness?

So as can be seen from the selected Scriptures above, I don’t think that God is selfish at all.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Can we agree that God, as described in scripture, is more concerned with the HOLY aspect of His nature than He is with the LOVE aspect of His nature?

I would not agree with that. Nor would I agree that Yin and Yang have anything to do with God. God transcends duality. Yin and Yang are aspects of the created universe. In God holiness and love are unified.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Holiness and Love are not dual natures in the way that ying and yang are traditionally presented. Ying/yang philosophy holds that evil is just as necessary as good. That they balance each other out.

But we know that our God loves what is good and hates what is evil. In fact, it is this very trait that make Him holy, though many would argue that this is a bad thing.

So no, you will not find ying/yang in the bible. In fact I would wonder at those who thought they had found it in scripture. Holiness and Love are two distinct natures, yes. But one is a direct result of the other. God has other traits too. But He has no cognitive dissonance or conflicts about any of them. He is eternal and He is also omnipotent. He is omniscient as well as omnipresent. I see no conflict of natures here. Why should anyone?

 

[Treeplanter]

Why not?

But we can also see more than your small narrative, here.

We do know, by reason if no other way, that God (first cause) is far beyond our understanding, though we do understand enough to realize we don't have enough knowledge by which to judge him. A little humility next to the one and only Sovereign, Omnipotent, Supreme is a fitting way to begin the question.

I trust that a human parent who proclaims:
"I, fundamentally, come before my child"
is a parent that you would regard as both rotten and unworthy of having a child

I know that's what I think and how I feel...

God, essentially, proclaims:
"I, fundamentally, come before my children"

However, doesn't a good and moral parent proclaim:
"I place my child, fundamentally, before myself"?

God, essentially, proclaims:
"I, fundamentally, come before my children"
and you seem to want to brush it aside and chalk it up to:
"Oh well, it's one of the mysteries of God - and it's not our place to judge Him"

Doesn't a good and moral parent teach and encourage his/her child to judge others {including the parent, him/herself} based on the moral character that is exhibited by said 'other'?

To judge someone's moral character is simply to form an opinion and reach a conclusion on said moral character after having considered one's words and actions and having filtered and processed said words and actions through one's own understanding upon the differentiation of right and wrong / good and evil


Couple questions for you:

What do you think God values more in a man

a humility that precludes a questioning nature?
or
a confidence that inspires a questioning nature?

And which would you want for your own child?

 

[Treeplanter]

no

But there can be places in scripture where God being holy is given more attention, than to God being love.

But He can't have the one without the other.

He can't be holy without being love; He can't be love without being holy.

You seem like you have some concern . . . or a lot of concern . . . that God gets praised because of His holiness.

Well, among humans there can be different ways that you might praise another human. It can be only because you consider him or her to be greater than you, though he or she has done nothing good for you. Or, the person is so good for you that you deeply appreciate the person and you are glad the person is greater than you so he or she can do you good which you can't do for yourself.

What God wants, I would say, is that He has proven Himself to us, in us, doing us such good > in His holiness of His love He has done us such good, that we appreciate this and thank Him. His holy love is so better for us, than how we have been human in our ways of loving.

By holy I mean not creature in quality and ability. And it is very good for us, how God is not only human and creature in quality and ability, but He is holy and love.

I don't have a problem that God gets praised due His holiness
I have a problem that God demands to be praised for His holiness

Offering praise to a perfect being is something I would gladly engage in myself
That said, can a being that demands praise truly be called perfect?


I don't understand how you can disagree with my assessment that God is more concerned with the HOLY aspect of His nature than He is with the LOVE aspect of His nature?

Did not Jesus, Himself, make it perfectly clear that God is primarily concerned with His own glorification when He said that loving God is the FIRST AND GREATEST commandment?