Yet Another Verse Disproves Pre-Trib Rapture

[Douggg]

Dougg,
You say “the seven years” and “to the 7 years”. I assume this comes from the Dispensationalist view that the Seven Trumpets in Revelation mean seven years. Yet where is the proof of this? Show me one verse that says there will be a special, highly significant seven year period leading up to the Second Coming. I don't believe there is one. Instead, we are told that “of that day and hour” no one knows.

Pslams 2 = Ezekiel 39:17-20 the Armageddon feast, Revelation 19:17-18. Ezekiel 39:21 = Zechariah 14:9 = Jesus's return to this earth as King.

The 7 years period follow Gog/Magog, that feast on Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4.

Deuteronomy 31:10-11 the 7 years = the confirming of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:26-27, by the prince who shall come, illicit King of Israel, son of David, Antichrist.

I am not a dispensationalist. I was just reflecting that the major rapture views are tied to the 7 years in some way, according to each view's particulars.

Regarding the seven trumpets - my view is that those begin when the two witnesses begin their battle with the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit and continue through the great tribulation (which is less than seven years because the great tribulation begins when the AOD is setup to be worshiped.) So that span of time would be 1335 days.

Even those who believe in a pre-trib Rapture dispute the notion of a seven year Tribulation or a seven year reign of the Antichrist. Earlier in the thread I quoted the Bible Prophecy site. I'll quote them again.

The "pre-trib" is actually a misnomer. It really means pre-70th week. I think you are taking general terms and are trying to pick them apart on that basis. The Antichrist's time for example - as the little horn, he comes to power as leader of the EU, the ten leader kingdom, before the seven years begin. There is no way to determine how long before the seven years. But when pre-tribbers say the Antichrist's time, they are referring to the "for" 7 years of Daniel 9:26-27 that begin with the action by the Antichrist of confirming the covenant for 7 years.

“Many people think that the seven trumpets must sound during the final seven years, but there is absolutely no proof of that in the bible.”

Okay, someone wrote that down - so what? I was not making an issue of the seven trumpets. I was merely commenting on the various major rapture views being tied to the seven years; either before, during, or at the end. Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Pre-wrath, Post trib. Each of those views maintains that the rapture cannot happen outside of the constraints of their particular view.

I said that me personally, I don't hold any of those views, but the view I coined as the anytime rapture view - that the rapture can happen anytime between now and when it does.

 

[Dale]

Douggg in post #41:
<< Pslams 2 = Ezekiel 39:17-20 the Armageddon feast, Revelation 19:17-18. Ezekiel 39:21 = Zechariah 14:9 = Jesus's return to this earth as King.

The 7 years period follow Gog/Magog, that feast on Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4.

Deuteronomy 31:10-11 the 7 years = the confirming of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:26-27, by the prince who shall come, illicit King of Israel, son of David, Antichrist. >>



Deuteronomy 31:10-11 has to do with the OT cancelling of debts every seven years. What does that have to do with end time prophecy?

You mention Psalm 2, which has no mention of any seven year period.

Ezekiel 39: 17-20 has no mention of any seven year period.

Revelation 19:17-18 has no mention of any seven year period.

Ezekiel 39:21 has no mention of any seven year period.

Zechariah 14:9 has no mention of any seven year period.



<< I am not a dispensationalist. >>



You sound like one and you have certainly been influenced by them.

If you are not a Dispensationalist, perhaps you have no idea where the ideas you use came from.



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[parousia70]

I said that me personally, I don't hold any of those views, but the view I coined as the anytime rapture view - that the rapture can happen anytime between now and when it does.

Pre Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, No Trib
Up Trib, Down Trib, Even All Around Trib
High Trib, Low Trib, Everywhere you go Trib
Lord please rapture me away from all the Faux Trib!

 

[lecoop]

Hi Dale - Can you at least admit that if you hold to the post-tribulation rapture model that Jesus CANNOT come back at any time? And certainly will NOT come like a thief? Clearly, anyone who has a bible or basic knowledge of the book of Revelation will know EXACTLY when Christ returns once the end times have started. Revelation 13 tells us the beast will be in power for EXACTLY 3 1/2 years or 1260 days.

Revelation 16 tells us that the Beast, False Prophet and Dragon release demonic spirits to recruit the leaders of the world to come to battle Jesus at Armageddon. When The Lord returns, the Antichrist and his forces are waiting for Jesus. Clearly NO ONE is surprised by Jesus' return. They are waiting to fight Him.

So even if we disagree on when the Rapture happens, can you at least see that there is no way you can hold to the "Jesus coming as a thief" notion and still maintain consistency with your rapture model?

NJBeliever, this is simply not truth. NO ONE will know when Jesus will come, either FOR His church are WITH His church.

You seem to think that His coming as seen in Rev. 19 will be on the day the 70th week ends, but this is simply not true. The Week ends with the 7th vial, yet you see the marriage and supper take place in heaven AFTER that. It will be an unknown amount of time while Jesus is in heaven for the marriage before He gets on the white horse.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. - Revelation 16:12-14.



And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. - Revelation 13:5.


This is what I mean. Scripture is abundantly clear. The antichrist rules for 42 months. Thus ANYONE who is paying any attention to this prophecy, Christian or not, will KNOW, THE EXACT DAY that Christ returns. Are you really going to try and argue this isn't true?

Not to mention that if someone is just looking for the trumpet or bowl judgments, which are supernatural catastrophic events (all rivers turning to blood, 1/3 of the world population being murdered, etc.), then again, it will be OBVIOUS to know from reading Revelation, when Christ will return.

The Euphrates river is dried up for the armies of the world to gather with the Antichrist. Again, this is another way to KNOW Christ is returning. And Scripture is clear that they are all teaming up to battle God. So again, even the heathen KNOW Jesus is coming.


So your post-trib model fails on this point alone. You are forced to either twist Scripture beyond recognition or just ignore plain meaning to try and work your way around such an obvious flaw.

Additionally, Jesus obviously can't come back at any time, because all these events have to transpire first (Antichrist, False prophet, 3 1/2 year reign, mark of the beast, etc.). So you clearly can rest very easy tonight, because by your belief, there is no chance Jesus can return and catch you off guard.

This is just one of many reasons why the post-trib model completely fails under Biblical scrutiny.

Again simply not true. One might correctly guess the month, but no one will guess the day nor the hour. A thief comes at an UNKNOWN time.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

Dale- once again, your position is illogical on its face. Why? Because you keep claiming nobody will know when Christ returns but are IGNORING the very clear time limits given by Scripture. This is precisely what I predicted. All your arguments are irrelevant to my simple point.

We KNOW for a fact that the Antichrist will rule for 1260 days. Thus we know precisely when Christ will return. This is from the most basic reading if the text. So ANYBODY who is slightly familiar with Revelation, Christian or not, WILL KNOW. This is abundantly obvious. You are forced to just ignore this in your response.

Additionally, you are ignoring the FACT that the Antichrist, False prophet and Dragon all prepare and recruit the leaders if the world to battle The Lord. They KNOW he's coming. A river SUPERNATURALLY dries up to allow their passage. In Revelation 19 when The Lord fights it's against the Beast AND his armies. No one's caught off guard at all. Your points about people reading the news today, etc. have zero relevance. Scripture tells us DEMONIC SPIRITS do the recruiting not the local newsman.

So clearly any believer who is familiar with Revelation will know. The enemies of God KNOW. Your model completely fails here.

You twist Scripture by saying people will not know the trumpet, bowl judgments etc., are the end times. Read the 6th seal of Revelation 6. Everybody knows it is the wrath of God and The Lamb. The heathens know it's Divine judgment. In Revelation's later judgments, people curse The Lord in anger. They KNOW it's God doing this. Again this is abundantly obvious from a plain reading of the text but you mangle Scripture just to try and force it into your erroneous rapture model.

Here are some other judgments: 1/3 of all trees, plants and grass destroyed. 1/3 of humanity killed, ALL WATER IN THE WORLD turned to blood- and you claim no one's going to notice? Wow. Again, you are contradicting Scripture because instead of just reading it and adjusting your thinking to the Bible, you are forcing the bible into your post trib model.

All the verses you cite about Jesus coming as a thief just show that you cannot reconcile those verses with your end times interpretation. You should really consider this rather than just continuing with the same line of reasoning.

This is NOT TRUTH. Your theory denies the very words of Jesus. You my THINK all will know, by just counting days, but you are wrong. NO ONE will know how long the marriage and supper will last.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

The mistake made in the pre-trib doctrine is that they consider the evil of Satan ln the tribulation. The truth is the church is not to suffer the wrath of God when he brings judgement. This wrath is the basis that the pre-trib is based on when it is totally off the mark.
If the church is gone, why would Christ say for us to endure to the end if we are removed from the tribulation which is the false understanding of the wrath of God. It is not the wrath of God in the tribulation but rather the wrath of Satan. That is the deception he has played on the religious world. The only ones leaving the earth in the tribulation are the dead who refuse to bow to Satan and are granted to rule with Christ through the millenium. The church does not suffer the wrath of God but it has to endure the wrath of Satan to receive it's reward in eternity. The church suffers the wrath of Satan not God. You must make the connection to see the truth.

hismessenger

This post speaks of pretrib though being "off the mark" yet this post is far, far off the mark. God speaks to three different groups of people when speaking of the end: the born agian believers, the 12 tribes, and the nations. For the believers, indeed He says we have no appointment with His wrath. Bu the truth at goes with this statement is that His wrath begins at the 6th seal and continues all the way through the 70th week: it is ALL His wrath.

In fact, when Satan's wrath is at its peak, then God pours out the vials of His wrath...so the truth is, both Satan's wrath and God's wrath are concurrent and cannot be separated. However, the pretrib rapture will remove the Bride of Christ before the week begins.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NJBeliever in post #9:[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is what I mean. Scripture is abundantly clear. The antichrist rules for 42 months. Thus ANYONE who is paying any attention to this prophecy, Christian or not, will KNOW, THE EXACT DAY that Christ returns. Are you really going to try and argue this isn't true? ”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3 ½ Years = 42 months[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The notion of a 3 ½ year time period comes from the interpretation that the 3 ½ days mentioned in Revelation 11: 9 and 11:11 means 3 ½ years.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dispensationalists attach special significance to seven year periods, so they take 3 ½ years to be half of a greatly significant seven year period. However, this appears to be pure speculation.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Teachers Bible Commentary* p. 813 column 2:[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Three and one-half, half of seven, is the number of uncertainty. Three and one-half days is a brief period of uncertain length. (v. 11) Three and one-half years is a longer period of uncertain length (v 2).”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*Teachers Bible Commentary, Paschall & Hobbs, Editors, Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1972[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*[/FONT]

It is simple arithmetic: if one half of of a time period is 1260 days, or 42 months or 3 1/2 years, then the entire period is twice each of these periods of time. Any way you look at it, it will ve 7 years. God has given us this time period in three different ways and 7 different times, yet you still cannot believe it?

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Bible2 in post #25:[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Book of Revelation doesn't say that the martyrs will be beheaded. It just tells us that they will be killed in some way, and so become martyrs.[/FONT]


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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*[/FONT]

7.Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

If you read rest of the revelations you would clearly see it teachers a pre-trib rapture.
In the bible it says

Matthew 24:42-44, “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” —Hebrews 11:5​

It clearly states no one would know when the second coming happens BUT IF the tribulation period happened before the rapture WE WOULD KNOW THE TIME HE RETURNS therefor the rapture HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE TRIBULATION PERIOD.

You are right in your theory, but wrong in your proof. the marriage and supper will take place AFTER the 1260 days are up, and NO ONE will know how long that marriage and supper will take.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

Yet He told us everything that MUST happen before that return,and He never said a rapture is one of them....Can you show me the rapture in Matthew 24......

Ha ha! You are very funny! Why would ANYONE expect to find the pretrib rapture of the church in the Olivet discourse that was and is about the final week of the Old covenant for the JEWS? It simply is not about the church. the Bride will not be here.

LAMAD

 

[lecoop]

Dougg,
You say “the seven years” and “to the 7 years”. I assume this comes from the Dispensationalist view that the Seven Trumpets in Revelation mean seven years. Yet where is the proof of this? Show me one verse that says there will be a special, highly significant seven year period leading up to the Second Coming. I don't believe there is one. Instead, we are told that “of that day and hour” no one knows.



Even those who believe in a pre-trib Rapture dispute the notion of a seven year Tribulation or a seven year reign of the Antichrist. Earlier in the thread I quoted the Bible Prophecy site. I'll quote them again.


“Many people think that the seven trumpets must sound during the final seven years, but there is absolutely no proof of that in the bible.”



Link:
ProphecyAndTruth




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John is very clear that the 7 trumpet judgments come during the FIRST HALF of the 70th week. Even YOUR bible shows this. The 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the week. Did you not notice those living in Judea FLEE right after the 7th trumpet? (Rev. 12:6)

LAMAD

 

[Bible2]

lecoop said in post 44:

NO ONE will know when Jesus will come, either FOR His church are WITH His church.

Note that FOR His church and WITH His church can occur at the same coming. For 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 mean at Jesus' 2nd coming the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the 3rd heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15) and their souls will descend to the earth and their bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the first heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be right above Jerusalem before he sets his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

It's because of this 2nd-coming rapture into the sky and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12) that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the first heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4).

lecoop said in post 44:

NO ONE will know when Jesus will come, either FOR His church are WITH His church.

Regarding "NO ONE will know", are you thinking of Matthew 24:36,42,44? If so, those verses refer to Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it's possible that at a certain point in our future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and symbolicist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim the first verse means no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim the 2nd verse means no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

lecoop said in post 44:

The Week ends with the 7th vial, yet you see the marriage and supper take place in heaven AFTER that.

By "heaven" do you mean the 3rd heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b)? If so, note that no scripture requires believers will be raptured any higher than the clouds of the sky (the first heaven) to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). After that meeting, in which the church will be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and the obedient part of the church will be married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7, Matthew 25:1-13), the obedient part of the church will come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:15-21) to reign on the earth with him for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) the obedient part of the church will live on the new earth with God the Father and Jesus in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21-22).

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lecoop said in post 47:

However, the pretrib rapture will remove the Bride of Christ before the week begins.

Note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Instead, the Bible makes clear that Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30) the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20) but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

lecoop said in post 47:

For the believers, indeed He says we have no appointment with His wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 refers only to that wrath which is opposed to salvation, which is God's wrath (John 3:36). Even obedient saved people can suffer the wrath of Satan, which doesn't affect their salvation (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 2:10). For even if they're killed by Satan, this is no loss for them, but gain, for it brings their souls into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). Also, 1 Thessalonians 5:9a applies to anyone who obtains salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9b).

Note that nothing requires the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the tribulation that will be his wrath will be directed against any of the saved people (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the tribulation could be only Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

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lecoop said in post 51:

Why would ANYONE expect to find the pretrib rapture of the church in the Olivet discourse that was and is about the final week of the Old covenant for the JEWS?

Note that no scripture says or requires the 70 weeks (Daniel 9:24) are for the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21) or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).