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Yet another Republican comment that makes us ask, how do they define socialism?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by SimplyMe, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. SimplyMe

    SimplyMe Senior Veteran

    +6,356
    Christian
    Married
    "Today’s Anniversary of Medicare & Medicaid reminds us to reflect on the critical role these programs have played to protect the healthcare of millions of families. To safeguard our future, we must reject Socialist healthcare schemes."
    https://twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1421115026300186634 (No. 3 ranking Republican in the House of Representatives)

    I'm trying to understand, Medicare and Medicaid are not socialist but they would be if we expanded them to cover all Americans?
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +30,670
    Anglican
    Married
    You seem to be on the right track, so what's the problem?
     
  3. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

    +8,522
    United Kingdom
    Agnostic
    Private
    Astounding! I am reminded of the editorial in Investor's Business Daily in 2009 that included the line:
    People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.
    Which rather overlooked the fact that Professor Hawking was born, raised, lived and worked in the UK and had enjoyed the services of the NHS in managing his life-threatening condition. This article in The Atlantic discusses the incident in more detail.
     
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  4. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

    +19,540
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
    lol, didn't she start out as one of the sane ones?

    I wonder if she realizes that the largest employer in her district is Fort Drum cuz soshalizm.
     
  5. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

    +7,540
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Only those who can afford it deserve healthcare. Speaking of socialism, now that Republicans have clarified what it is, we should quit passing the plate at church. Clearly, using collectively gathered funds to help those in need is socialism. And, I think Ayn Rand is a better representative of American Christianity than Jesus. God bless unmitigated capitalism! :ebil:
     
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  6. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

    +19,540
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
    :handok:
     
  7. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

    +8,522
    United Kingdom
    Agnostic
    Private
    Who is Ayn Rand? (Read the small print. Public Hermit knows what I mean.)



    The Small Print: If anyone is tempted to post an explanation of who Ayn Rand is then you should know enough to realise I already know, or I wouldn't have asked who she is. To the rest of you I apologise for spoiling what I think of as a neat remark with this rambling nonsense.
     
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  8. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,635
    United States
    Reformed
    Widowed
    Maybe if they were forced to cover all Americans, whether we wanted them or not? But, whenever a bill is brought up for consideration, Democrat or Republican in origin, it is never as simple as it appears on the surface. Specially if we have to vote it in to find out what is in it!
     
  9. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +6,640
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    That's right. Medicare and Medicaid are neither Socialist nor Capitalist. They are American. They are meant -or at least were meant- to care for those who cannot care for themselves. We have a long history of caring for those who cannot care for themselves. But too many people want to turn our sense of charity into their own sense of entitlement, and then there are those who want to use the entitlement as a means of obtaining power.
     
  10. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

    +2,195
    United States
    Episcopalian
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    Or maybe, just maybe some of us want to be sure that all have access to healthcare, including the ones that fall through the cracks that make too little or just a little too much.

    I have health insurance that I pay over $800 for that is for me and the kids. That is literally more than half that I bring home each month on my paychecks. Today I found out that I need to have my gall bladder removed. I figured that my insurance will cover it. It will, but my $5000 deductible needs to be paid on top of 30% for co-insurance. I asked about doing a payment plan and I was told that it depends on how much my deductible is, when I told her $5000, she said that more than likely they will want at least 50% down. I cannot afford that!

    However, if there was universal healthcare, I wouldn't have to worry about the money and my surgery would be covered. As it is right now, I may have to delay the surgery, get even sicker as the bile backs up and poisons my body and I run the risk of getting sepsis.

    Tell me, which would be the better route? Pay for the surgery outright and pre-empt me getting sicker and it costs more, or make it so I cannot afford the payment and I just get sicker and it costs more?
     
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  11. 1rreducibly Complex

    1rreducibly Complex Newbie

    341
    +162
    Christian
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    Capitalism describes free markets and free enterprise by the private sector.

    Socialism describes government programs funded by taxes.
     
  12. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,913
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    USA has a terrible healthcare system. Get good.
     
  13. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

    +704
    United States
    Single
    US-Others
    First of all, you have all of my sympathy.

    I have painfully made a number of discoveries and I hope one of them helps.

    1. Co-opt someone else into the battle. You are facing a life and death struggle and might not notice something a less involved person might see.

    2. Get a second opinion on whatever any official tells you, phone again a while later. This might help.

    3. I hope you are in a state with expanded Medicaid because then you have a way to get help. If you are under 65 then ensure your pay is under 17,000 a year and you get Medicaid, no copay, no deductible, no enrollment period, brilliant, just like living in one of the other advanced countries.

    If not, then be willing to face lots of bad news in the hope that one of those pieces of bad news isn't as bad as the others. There have been additional enrollment opportunities and by picking the right balance of cover, I deleted dental and vision and hearing and got one company that had affordable cover with low premiums and reasonable copay, in the hated Health Insurance Marketplace. Not good but acceptable.

    4. Look up hospitals with a sliding scale

    5 Beware, when I looked if you got any part of Medicare that made you completely inelligible for Obamacare. Weigh that up before you leap.
     
  14. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

    +12,404
    United States
    Unitarian
    Married
    US-Others
    You know, they did have to vote on all the amendments to know which ones would be included and which would not. That's not rocket science. :rolleyes:
     
  15. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

    +12,404
    United States
    Unitarian
    Married
    US-Others
    Hey, there's always GoFundMe. Yeah, it's awful that it comes to this.
     
  16. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +5,831
    Agnostic
    Single
    It does become hard to reason and argue with people who repeatedly show they have no idea what they are talking about, refuse to define what they mean by things, and are sincerely stubborn about the whole thing.

    Our public discourse on the idea of "socialism" where "socialism" is defined as "stuff I don't like that I've decided to rail against today" has become stupid and is being embarked upon by people who either have no idea what they are talking about or are being purposefully disingenuous.
     
  17. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

    +5,153
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Green
    Yes, but that's not nearly as good as a sound bite.

    I particularly loved when the For the People Act was called socialist. Because updating voting laws and social ownership of the means of production are the exact same.
     
  18. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

    +704
    United States
    Single
    US-Others
    If your total deductible for the year is 5,000 that might not be all taken in one operation, you should check on how much will be taken for the one operation, it might be a lot less.
     
  19. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +12,167
    Atheist
    Private
    Old people vote republican, the narrative needs to be crafted to fit this reality.
     
  20. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +12,167
    Atheist
    Private
    For example, the military. Oh wait, nope, that can't be right, spending money on the military is FREEDOM!
     
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