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Yet Another Reason to Oppose Police Violence: It's Costing Us Millions of Dollars

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by SummerMadness, Apr 25, 2021.

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  1. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You win. I have explained it to you until I am blue in the face, but you are incapable of understanding it.
     
  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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  3. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    Your explanation has no basis in law, it's just you defining things. It's seems you don't understand that an actual law or statute is required to substantiate your claim. You argue that an arrest warrant defines a violent criminal, it does not. You argue that conviction for violent crimes makes someone a violent criminal. Fine then, but that has nothing to do with an arrest warrant unless you're talking about an arrest warrant for a violent crime. If you were convicted of robbery in the past and later have an arrest warrant drawn up for drug possession, that does not make you a violent criminal. It's really simple.

    But that point doesn't matter as much as your attempt to define people as violent criminals in order to justify extrajudicial killings, which you incorrectly claim saves money. Murdering citizens in your society is only cheap in a vacuum where there are no repercussions for the systemic murder of civilians. It's not cheaper because it breeds unrest that costs a lot more than just not murdering people. It's just a bad idea devoid of logic and forethought.

    I think it's obvious why such ideas are supported; there is a belief that those who will be murdered fall into a particular category and there is glee and acceptance of murdering people in that group, especially when one believes they do not fall in that group. But support for government murdering citizens is something seen throughout history, it's odd seeing these precursors to genocidal thought described so nonchalantly.
     
  4. Avniel

    Avniel Doing my part each day by being the best me

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    A rap sheet is not a criminal conviction it’s a list of criminal convictions. Police don’t chase criminals they chase suspects they don’t have the legal authority to label individuals as criminal.

    If you’re apprehended committing a burglary then you are still a suspect. Police do not have the legal authority to convict individuals of crimes.

    I don’t think you understand the law. What you are speaking of sounds Soviet Russia and Germany.
     
  5. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    I think the crux of the arguments is they need to call someone a criminal so they can justify murdering them. It's not about your actions at the time that should warrant a response, they want to label you and then kill you.

    The weak argument here is that murdering civilians is somehow cheaper. They also want to ignore due process by labeling someone as violent because they have an arrest warrant. Forget the whole US Constitution, just murder them in the street because they have a warrant or previous convictions. It's not too hard to understand why these views are held.
     
  6. Avniel

    Avniel Doing my part each day by being the best me

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    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


    So what if the person has the warrant issued and he has a great defense team and he receives a favorable verdict? Does he then go from violent criminal to non-violent criminal?

    what you are saying is incorrect, a warrant does not equate to a conviction. In order to be considered criminal an individual must be prosecuted and or admit guilt. Anything outside of that is a violation of said individual’s constitutional rights.
     
  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    It was YOUR argument that murdering civilians is wrong because it is more expensive ... see the TITLE and OP. We are just trying to stay on YOUR crazy topic. Lawsuits make it expensive, so ending violence and ending lawsuits will both solve the problem of "expensive". That is just a logical response to the argument presented.

    How do you propose to get criminals to stop fighting with the Police and creating the need for any use of force? Let's hear your plan and then we can evaluate your argument that violence is too expensive. Prison is too expensive, so should all criminals just be set free? Health care is too expensive, so should the sick just be allowed to die? Who defines "too expensive" and what is the alternative. You certainly have not.

    I merely presented facts about what costs less than a lawsuit or a year in prison. You have not refuted my facts, you have merely rejected them and accused me of advocating things that I do not.
     
  8. Avniel

    Avniel Doing my part each day by being the best me

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    Yet at the same time we are supposed to stand for national anthem. It’s absurd, either this is the land of the free or it is not. Either the constitution has value or it does not. They really don’t see how similar what they are saying resembles stratocracy.
     
  9. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    On top of that is the absurd argument that people should simply not have the courts available to them because that costs money. "The best way to make things cheaper is to eliminate the courts and their rights to sue! Just murder then in the street, no problem there!" It perfectly encapsulates the idea of wanting rights for yourself, but seeking to deny those rights for others.
     
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    • A "violent criminal" is a criminal that has committed a "violent crime".
    • "convicted of a violent crime ... making him a violent criminal"
    • "the COURT, not the POLICE issue the warrant for arrest" [This was the actual misinformation that I was correcting that dragged me into this load of crap]
    • The police did not make him a violent criminal, but the arrest warrant made him a violent criminal being sought by the police.
    I have explained it to you, now you will either understanding it or not.
     
  11. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    We understand you, you're just wrong. You also show a fundamental lack of understanding the US Constitution.
     
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    • April 18: Police in Burnsville, Minnesota pursued a man who carjacked a vehicle. Upon crashing the car, the man exited the car and fired shots at police. Multiple police officers returned fire and killed the white man in his 20's. Murder or justified? Do his actions matter? Does his race matter?
    • April 20: 16 year old Ma'Khia Bryant had attacked one girl, ignored commands from police just arriving at the scene and was in the process of swinging a knife to stab a second girl she had pinned against a car when the police shot and killed her to save the life of her victim. Murder or justified? Do her actions matter?
    • April 21: Police attempted to serve an arrest warrant and drug search warrant on 42 year old Andrew Brown Jr. in Elizabeth City, N.C. when he struck an officer with his car while attempting to flee and the police reacted by shooting and killing him. Murder or justified? Do his actions matter?
     
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That was addressed to HIM, You have already demonstrated an inability to comprehend, so I gave up on you.
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    If a person is convicted of a crime, they are a criminal. (by law)
    If they are convicted of a "violent crime", then they are classified as a "violent criminal".
    If they are acquitted, then they are not a criminal. (by law)

    From the moral rather than legal perspective, a criminal is anyone that commits a crime ... irrespective of whether they are caught and convicted or not.

    One accused of a crime is a "suspect" for the police and a "defendant" for the court.
    It is only after conviction that they are a "criminal".

    However CRIME is like a potato chip, people seldom stop at just one.
    So it is not uncommon for a "suspect" to also be a "violent criminal".
     
  15. Avniel

    Avniel Doing my part each day by being the best me

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    When we hear things like this we have to recognize the reality of our current racial disconnection and the real struggle with racism in America. The black American community was not supposed to get constitutional rights, now that we have them the rules must change.
     
  16. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    That is cold dude.

    Sorry you put such a low price on life
     
  17. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON

    DUE TO MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS


    [​IMG]

    MOD HAT OFF
     
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