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Yes, welfare is going to bankrupt the US Government

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by ProudMomxmany, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    Yes, welfare is going to bankrupt the US government...


    Roughly 44 bucks per year per taxpayer for welfare/SNAP and people have hissie fits. 4 grand a year in corporate subsidies per taxpayer and people think it's all good because these folks are going to "create jobs"...the money from these corporate subsidies would be better spent on renewing the crumbling infrastructure of our country. Things get fixed, jobs get created, skills get learned. There's enough work out there to keep people employed for the next 50 years.

    Time to get priorities straight folks....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2013
  2. Douger

    Douger Veteran

    +504
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    For that claim to make any sense at all, there would need to be a little bit of a breakdown for that 4k using specifics.
     
  3. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    Well...maybe I can find the info for you...

    However, it is outrageous that people quibble over a lousy 46 dollars a year on programs that HELP people and 4K a year for corporations that don't need our tax dollars.
     
  4. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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  5. Rubiks

    Rubiks God's little autistic boy! :)

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    I don't have any problem with welfare if you give it to people who need it. The problem is people exploiting the system. Personally I think welfare systems should be designed to gradually wean people off the system and become more productive members of society. Then, everyone benefits. Excuse my language, but there are too many crack addicts who do nothing but play call of duty all day who get showered with welfare and spend none of it on their kids.
     
  6. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    You are aware that the average TANF grant nationwide is about 600 dollars a month, right? Nobody's getting rich off that. Also, are you aware that there is a limit (60 months I think) that you can collect cash benefits? SNAP, WIC and housing assistance goes longer. However, SNAP, WIC and housing assistance is not going to put money in your pocket.

    Its typical, the truth is that TANF and SNAP is a small part of the federal budget. Corporations get 50% MORE. Corporations DO NOT NEED WELFARE of any sort from the government. Why should we, the taxpayers, subisidize their profits???

    Now...look at the big picture....Corporations (profit making entities) get government subsidies, they get tax breaks because they allegedly create jobs. Why should your and my tax dollars go towards that?

    The "crack addict" on welfare is a stereotype.

    Answer the bigger question.
     
  7. Belk

    Belk Senior Member

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    Really? How many is it? You are aware that welfare has a lifetime cap of 5 years and that 3 of those years you must be employed, correct?
     
  8. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    so do you think EVERY ONE should be weaned off the system?
     
  9. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    You will never arrive at zero welfare recipients. There will always be people who fall on hard times.

    However, can we get to the substantive question in my OP? Why do people fuss about 46 dollars per year for TANF and SNAP and don't say a word about the 4000.00 that goes to profit making corporations? If that welfare was cut, there'd be a whole lot more for a safety net. We could afford single payer medical insurance, we could afford to invest in the crumbling infrastructure in our country, rebuilding roads and bridges and putting all sorts of people back to work.

    Think about it. Leave out the TANF/SNAP and THINK about how much good that money could do. Why are we supporting corporations that make profits? Why do they "need" our tax money?
     
  10. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Well what we have to decide what we spend our money on and that is what we are choosing to spend our money on?. You and I both know how I feel about single payer Infrastructure yes single payer there are more than enough threads where I have stated my view VERY clearly.
     
  11. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    Answer the question about corporate welfare. You justify donating billions of dollars to corporations that make a profit.

    That is the question. Answer the question.
     
  12. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I thought I just said that that is what are choosing to spend our money on and so I still feel that welfare should be very limited that does not say that we should give them billions but we can give them some and/or regulate how much we give them if they are creating jobs.
     
  13. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    We are talking about CORPORATE welfare. NOT TANF/SNAP benefits. We are discussing the US Government handing out billions of dollars to PROFIT MAKING CORPORATIONS.

    This is the question...the thesis is as follows:
    People fuss about what amounts to 46 dollars per year for a family making 50 grand a year to fund TANF/SNAP. At the same time, this same family making the same money is having 4 THOUSAND dollars of their tax money going to profit making corporations. So...my question is, why are people fussing about TANF/SNAP and not saying one darn word about the corporations that are pocketing yours and my tax money?

    Discuss. SNAP/TANF is NOT the topic.
     
  14. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    I respect your posts ProudMomxMany, but you have to know the layperson is responsible for all of this. The laypersons are responsible for this clusterp**ck of an economy, and government. After all, the Americans elect officials to represent them , right? The solution to a lot of "junk" is to stand up and be aware of what is going on. It doesn't stop there! After awareness comes action. What is to be done of a policy?

    Well, if we are rally humanitarians, we can look at why the defense budget is so expensive (on tax payer dime,) yet they have so many classified operations. That is literally like telling us, "Hey, give us your money for research, but we won't tell you what it's for. That's a secret." $1500 is not for a toilet, that is a paper-transaction-write-off. The real problem with welfare even is 1) outsourcing, 2) globalization, and 3) frivolous spending.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2013
  15. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I am not sure why maybe people feel that those corporations do more to get that money to create jobs I do not know HOWEVER I have never denied that CEOs make too much to a certain extent. That is to say that they work hard to get to that position but they do make more money than they should. Just by the fact that they make SOOOOOOOOOO much more than their employees they could pay them more.
     
  16. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    I'm aware of the issues. However, the idea that the "trickle down" economy is going to work needs to be debunked. It hasn't and it won't.

    When our elected officials are running for office, they spend so much time telling us why the other guy is wrong without ever saying one word as to what THEIR platform is. Also, both sides take advantage of two things. The first is that neither side does a whole lot of serious thinking or researching. Second, they know (on both sides) that there are certain knee-jerk issues they can use to bury any discussion on truly substantive issues. That is why I am in favor of a clean slate come 2014. Not a single incumbent. However, these clowns can't even pass comprehensive campaign reform legislation.

    Another issue is the idea of elected legislator as career choice. That was never the intention of the Founding Fathers.

    There is much needed reform, but as long as both sides can keep pulling out the knee-jerk issues and keep the electorate from making truly informed choices (which isn't hard to do in the internet age), it will never, ever happen. Yes, I am a liberal. However, I am critical enough of both sides to keep myself informed, rather than enamored of some ideology.

    Regarding DoD spending....remember, I am a retired Navy wife. I can tell you stories of the waste on just the ships my husband was on. It was incredible. Millions of dollars per cruise. I do believe that there are certain things that do not need to be in the public realm, for security reasons, however, transparency in the budget would be nice. That 1500.00 toilet? Well, that is the cost after the negociations, the design, the engineering, the inspecting...and if you're on the USS George HW Bush (CVN-77), they don't work anyway. For a very coherent description of why these things cost so much, I highly recommend a book titled "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich and Leo Janos. You should be able to find it on Amazon. Also, research the TQM methods made popular by a man named Deming (I don't remember his first name now).

    I do not hold out any hope for any sort of change. All I can see is more polarization, more division, more knee-jerk opposition. All those single issue voters need to realize there's a whole lot more than just their pet issue at stake during every election cycle.

    hey...but what do I know....I'm just a stupid stay at home mom....
     
  17. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    I agree that welfare should be for those who need it, but I also think the corporate welfare is not only obscene, but a much larger problem.

    Just look at what happened with the Atlanta braves. They wanted the town to dish out over 200 million dollars for a team that brings in that much annually.

    Another company just got a large plot of land for free, tax free for years, and gets paid by the town for every worker they hire. People are literally paying their employers to hire them. Its insanity. This is from a massively profitable company that needs absolutely no help or incentive to conduct its business there.
     
  18. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    The problem is that none of those businesses need this welfare. SMALL businesses could use it, at least loans perhaps, but multi billion, some even multi trillion dollar companies are getting these subsidies.
     
  19. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    Stupid stay at home mom who happens to be in the thick of a ridiculous polarized social tension. Yea, I know that has to be sarcasm on your part, as you are probably one of the more qualified to help the suffering American community. See, the paradigm of "working mothers and fathers" was created so that both male and female family counterparts could contribute to paying taxes, whilst leaving the child at the whim of strangers. Stay at home moms make me blush with pride for the community.

    Anyway, I will end it on what I have parroted on other threads: the "elites" are playing chess, and the "laypersons" are playing checkers. As "evil" as these psychos may seem... they are only playing the game right. Us laypersons are the ones scoffing at "impossibility, improbability, conspiracy, and fantasy," and we are shorting our collective selves though these methods. Meanwhile, these "players" are exploiting our ignorance and lack of imagination. Most of the laypersons are doing the work for these psychos by ridicule, scorn and scoffing. It is very sad, because in 60 years their grandchildren will be asking them why they didn't see what was so obvious to them back in their time.
     
  20. ProudMomxmany

    ProudMomxmany slightly insane mom of many

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    Yes, I was being sarcastic. I don't have much by way of formal education, but I don't need to pay to educate myself.

    We have a boatload of kids and have been fortunate enough that I've been able to stay home (not to mention, who in their right minds would want to babysit my tribe!). Being a homeschooling mom has helped a lot...kids ask some great questions.

    I realize that I'm not a "typical" Christian homeschooling mom, I've encouraged my kids to be aware of the political climate and encouraged them to come to their own conclusions. The day each child turned 18, we took them to register to vote. Before that, they went with me to vote (again, who in their right minds would want to watch my tribe while I went and voted). They were aware of the issues, they were encouraged to make their own minds up. The only condition is they'd better be able to defend their view, whatever it may be.

    In this discussion of corporate welfare, I'm asking the other posters to do no less than I expect from myself and my kids. Defend your position. Use hard facts and figures. Provide references. However...we have one side that plays on one or two issues that truly don't amount to a hill of beans in the bigger picture. They are keeping those issues in the forefront so nobody decides to look further. The other side seems to respect the intellect of the electorate. They get everybody stirred up on those pet issues and have managed to hose everyone over.

    I know that I will not be voting for a single incumbent next year. If I have to cross party lines to do it, I will hold my nose and do it. I'm over this rubbish. I am convinced that much of it is thinly veiled bigotry. As a minority, I can live without it. I thought that we, as a people, had moved past that. Guess I was wrong.