Yes, Schiavo is starving, but so are 815 million other people worldwide

[Milla]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4078003.stm

Which has led me to wonder: Why does the Schiavo case have so many threads on these forums, and other tragedies so very few?

I asked the question in this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t1358088-terri-speaks-and-says-she-wants-to-live.html
and was asked to take it to a new topic. So I'm curious: why do you think this christianforums discussion discrepancy exists?

 

[Glaz]

Nobody is stopping you from making threads on other subjects you feel are under represented.

 

[Milla]

Nobody is stopping you from making threads on other subjects you feel are under represented.

And so I just did! Ta-da!

 

[Zoot]

Because Christian Forums discussions reflect Western media and officialised intellectual environments, both of which have their own agendas and parameters. We talk about what we've seen on TV and in the papers. TV and the papers are both trying to sell and must also operate within the boundaries of established discussion. So the news has to be, by definition, both mainstream and sensationalist. Sensationalism also requires some degree of identification between the reader and characters in the stories. 10,000 Johnny Brown Persons starving to death in his tribe in rural Africa is just another number to me. Billy English Speaker being kidnapped while travelling in Africa, on the other hand, interests me enormously because I can imagine being in his shoes.

 

[pegatha]

Which has led me to wonder: Why does the Schiavo case have so many threads on these forums, and other tragedies so very few?

That's an excellent question. I think there are several reasons why we're taking such an interest in this case. First, Terri's death will be deliberate, whereas the other starvation deaths you're talking about generally aren't. Second, people in the US feel that Terri's situation is one where we could possibly have some influence by writing our Congressmen or contributing directly to the Schindlers' legal fund, whereas most of us don't feel like there's much we can do directly for someone beyond our own borders. Third, it's horrifying that something like this can happen here in the US, a "civilized" country. And finally, this has direct legal implications for any of us who may end up on life support or see our loved ones in that condition. I think you can sum it all up by saying it just hits closer to home.

(Off topic: Cool signature, Milla. We had to memorize "Parus" in my Russian class many years ago.)

 

[Milla]

Because Christian Forums discussions reflect Western media and officialised intellectual environments, both of which have their own agendas and parameters. We talk about what we've seen on TV and in the papers. TV and the papers are both trying to sell and must also operate within the boundaries of established discussion. So the news has to be, by definition, both mainstream and sensationalist. Sensationalism also requires some degree of identification between the reader and characters in the stories. 10,000 Johnny Brown Persons starving to death in his tribe in rural Africa is just another number to me. Billy English Speaker being kidnapped while travelling in Africa, on the other hand, interests me enormously because I can imagine being in his shoes.

I think you're right. I give up. Time for a cf.com hiatus. This place shows me way too much about human nature.

 

[Milla]

(Off topic: Cool signature, Milla. We had to memorize "Parus" in my Russian class many years ago.)

Thanks. It's my favorite poem. I love Lermontov; he's so tragically overwroughtly full of angst. Someone who purposely makes himself miserable so he can be a better poet deserves some...I dunno...award or something.

 

[Glaz]

And so I just did! Ta-da!

personally I don't get the whole thing with Schiavo either. As for why the discrepancy, its all about the media driven culture: put something on the news enough, and people will care. This explains the undue fascination that the Scott Peterson case got. Something a bit Orwellian about it I think. We care about what the TV tells us to care about. The TV says 'give' and we give. If the TV says 'this guy is bad' then that guy is bad, end of story. If the TV said 'we have always been at war with blahblahblah', then I imagine people would eventually come to believe that despite what their own senses tell them. Orwell really was a man head of his time.

 

[SisterGeoff]

Yes, Schiavo is starving, but so are 815 million other people worldwide

And those poor souls do not have the benefit of a missing cerebral cortex to deaden their pain.

 

[Zoot]

If the TV said 'we have always been at war with blahblahblah', then I imagine people would eventually come to believe that despite what their own senses tell them. Orwell really was a man head of his time.

He truly was. Case in point - "We have always been waging this war to liberate people, rather than to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction."

Imagine the gap in our language if we couldn't describe things as Orwellian.

 

[PACKY]

If the TV said 'we have always been at war with blahblahblah', then I imagine people would eventually come to believe that despite what their own senses tell them. Orwell really was a man head of his time.

He truly was. Case in point - "We have always been waging this war to liberate people, rather than to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction."

Imagine the gap in our language if we couldn't describe things as Orwellian.

what is the definition of Orwellian?

 

[Zoot]

what is the definition of Orwellian?

More or less describing the use of language to change the way people think, usually by the government in manufacturing consent for its policies.

For example, in Orwell's story 1984, the military branch of the state was called the Ministry of Peace, and the propaganda branch was called the Ministry of Truth. Of course, there was nothing peaceful about the Ministry of Peace and seldom the whole truth being told by the Ministry of Truth. But through persistent use of the terms, the people came to either adopt the new terminology or take a mindset where they could be aware of contradictions in what they were being told, but no longer particularly caring.

Examples in the real world include things like the "Ministry of Defence" (a relatively new name for a government department), the "Department of Homeland Security", the "axis of evil", the Soviet Mir programme ("mir" meaning, I believe, "peace"), and any number of operations named things like "Enduring Freedom" or "Righteous Action" or whatever.

It's like propaganda, only subtler. Or sometimes ridiculously blatant, such as when things are named the total opposite of what they actually do.

 

[Milla]

the Soviet Mir programme ("mir" meaning, I believe, "peace"),

To the everlasting convenience of Russian language slogan-makers and speechwriters, "mir" means both "peace" and "world."

 

[Zoot]

To the everlasting convenience of Russian language slogan-makers and speechwriters, "mir" means both "peace" and "world."

Ah yes. The Mir programme, bringing mir to the mir.

 

[Glaz]

To the everlasting convenience of Russian language slogan-makers and speechwriters, "mir" means both "peace" and "world."

Ah yes. The Mir programme, bringing mir to the mir.

Thats some good NewSpeak.

 

[Zoot]

I've tried to find some examples. I honestly thought there'd just be a list somewhere. There's some attempts, I suppose. Let's see...

Some examples of doublespeak and newspeak. "Terrorist" and "freedom fighter" being negative and positive terms meaning the same thing. "Preemptive war" being an invasion. "National socialism" being very anti-socialist. The "roadmap to peace". The "shock and awe" campaign. "Operation Just Cause". "In order to save the city, we had to destroy it." "Democracy" being a government of which the speaker approves, for whatever reason. The "Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty", which allows plenty of proliferation, just for some people and not others. "Radical nationalism" being people wanting to govern their own country and control their own resources. "Flip-flopping" as a negative term to denote someone changing their mind. "Old Europe" as European countries that don't pander to US intentions. "New Europe" as those European countries that do pander to US intentions, Latin America-style. "Collateral damage" being us killing civilians; "terrorism" being them killing civilians. "Department of Homeland Security."

 

[drboyd]

Back to the OP. Tony Campolo has a great quote about the general subject. Unfortunately, he uses A Bad Word to make his point, so you'll have to find it yourself.

You know, 9,000 people died on 9/11. Three thousand died as a result of the horrific attack on the World Trade Center, and 6,000 died of AIDS in Africa. Of course, 6,000 more died of AIDS on 9/12 and 9/13, too.

 

[Cherub8]

Slowly yet surely, the line between modern liberalism and naziism is fading. Hitler called for the extermination of disabled and mentally-handicapped persons. Now we see liberals demanding death-by-starvation for Terri, which they call "mercy killing," as well as the extermination of "impure" and "unwanted" babies.

Liberalism makes me physically ill. I will do all within my strength to see that liberalism is destroyed, for the sake of my children and their children.

 

[Zoot]

I met Tony Campolo once. He's a nice enough fellow.

 

[Glaz]

Back to the OP. Tony Campolo has a great quote about the general subject. Unfortunately, he uses A Bad Word to make his point, so you'll have to find it yourself.

You know, 9,000 people died on 9/11. Three thousand died as a result of the horrific attack on the World Trade Center, and 6,000 died of AIDS in Africa. Of course, 6,000 more died of AIDS on 9/12 and 9/13, too.

Tony Blair said sort of the same thing during the recent Tsunami disaster, to the effect of 'theres the equivalent of this disaster every week in Africa from AIDS.'