Yes, liberalism is bad

[Voegelin]

Letter to the editor of Tampa Bay Newspapers by Ron Sanders Pastor, Lighthouse Baptist Church Largo:

Thursday, July 26, 2007

Editor:

I would like to comment on the article on June 28 titled “Conservative, good; liberal, bad – or is it?”

In the article it says Paul Waldman, a senior fellow of Media Matters for America, a liberal nonprofit media watchdog group . . .

. . . In the early years of this country Alexis de Tocqueville, the noted French philosopher, visited America to find the secret of her greatness. As he traveled from town to town he talked with people and asked questions; he examined our young national government, our schools and centers of business, but could not find in them the reason for our strength. It was not until he visited the churches of America and witnessed the pulpits of this land “aflame with righteousness” that he found the secret of our greatness. Returning to France, he summarized his findings: “America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”

The Bible says in Proverbs 14:34 “Righteousness exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people.” I believe America has ceased to be good and is in serious trouble with God. I believe this country is guilty of murder before God. The sixth commandment says: “Thou shalt not kill.” Since Roe v. Wade millions and millions of babies have been aborted (murdered) in the name of liberalism. Homosexuality and the transgender lifestyle are an abomination (extreme disgust) to God (Leviticus 18:22, Deuteronomy 22:5) and have become accepted in the name of liberalism . . .

http://www.tbnweekly.com/editorial/readers_poll/content_articles/072607_pol-01.txt

Discover the Networks on Media Matters:

Creation of Democratic Party funders and operatives and former conservative writer David Brock . . .

Standing behind Brock was John Podesta, a former chief of staff in the Clinton administration and the head of the "progressive" Washington, DC think tank, the Center for American Progress. In 2004 Podesta provided Brock with office space for his fledgling enterprise. Soon after, Media Matters received over $2 million in seed donations from a roster of affluent donors including Leo Hindery Jr., a former cable magnate; Susie Tompkins Buell, a co-founder of the fashion company Esprit and a close ally of Senator Hillary Clinton; James Hormel, a San Francisco philanthropist who nearly served as ambassador to Luxembourg during the Clinton administration; Bren Simon, a Democratic activist and the wife of shopping-mall developer Mel Simon; and New York psychologist and philanthropist Gail Furman. Media Matters,whichcan accept tax-deductible contributions under section 501(c)(3) of the tax code,has also benefited from the patronage of Peter Lewis, chairman of Progressive Corporation and a longtime consort of leftist financier George Soros . . .

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7150

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Very important point, Voegelin.

But then I would think so, since I'm as ardent an opponent of political liberalism as you are.

 

[Voegelin]

Izdaari... just curious. As a libertarian, would you have problems with Ron Sanders the Pastor of Lighthouse Baptist Church as well?


I'm conservative, not libertarian, and I probably do (not familiar enough with him to go into any depth).


But I can live just fine with very conservative fundamentalists. They are not trying to force all children in the country into NEA dominated schools. They are not constantly lobbying for higher taxes and more regulations. They are content to let me kept what I worked for and own.

Only time I can remember when they really intruded upon my well being was one night in Kentucky when, to my astonishment, I had to drive to another county to buy a six-pack of beer.

Can't find the quote but William F. Buckeley said something once to the effect that if the religious right had its entire agenda enacted into law, America would resemble the country he remembers as a student at Yale in 1950. And that, he said, wasn't a bad country at all.

Now, of course, when liberals hear that, we get a lecture on Jim Crow and the "repression" of women. But that isn't what New Haven and most of America was about in 1950. It was about decency, intact families, a much smaller incarceration rate, a country which was more unified and where government and its "Zero Tolerance" policies didn't intrude into every aspect of life. It was a country in which Jews, Catholics and Protestants met on town greens to erect Ten Commandments momuments and in which whiners didn't run to a Federal judge everytime someone said a prayer or mentioned Jesus Christ at HS graduation.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Izdaari... just curious. As a libertarian, would you have problems with Ron Sanders the Pastor of Lighthouse Baptist Church as well?


I'm conservative, not libertarian, and I probably do (not familiar enough with him to go into any depth).

I'd never heard of him, aside from the letter you linked to. Nothing unusual about it, it's just the standard fundy line. Googling him, he seems to ride the anti-gay hobbyhorse way too much for my taste.

But I can live just fine with very conservative fundamentalists. They are not trying to force all children in the country into NEA dominated schools. They are not constantly lobbying for higher taxes and more regulations. They are content to let me kept what I worked for and own.

Only time I can remember when they really intruded upon my well being was one night in Kentucky when, to my astonishment, I had to drive to another county to buy a six-pack of beer.

Right, as long as they don't mess with my beer, I have no problem with them. I love my regional microbrews.

Can't find the quote but William F. Buckeley said something once to the effect that if the religious right had its entire agenda enacted into law, America would resemble the country he remembers as a student at Yale in 1950. And that, he said, wasn't a bad country at all.

Yep, that wouldn't be so awful. (It's been a long time since I read God and Man at Yale. Maybe I should look for it again.)

Now, of course, when liberals hear that, we get a lecture on Jim Crow and the "repression" of women. But that isn't what New Haven and most of America was about in 1950. It was about decency, intact families, a much smaller incarceration rate, a country which was more unified and where government and its "Zero Tolerance" policies didn't intrude into every aspect of life. It was a country in which Jews, Catholics and Protestants met on town greens to erect Ten Commandments momuments and in which whiners didn't run to a Federal judge everytime someone said a prayer or mentioned Jesus Christ at HS graduation.

All that's true. But as a multiracial woman, I got to say the liberals have a point also. I wouldn't want to lose the progress we've made on equality for minorities and for women, but if we could keep that (and of course the technology) and go back to the '50s on the rest, it might be pretty cool.

So, in general fundies don't scare me and I'm not worried about them. Falwell wasn't my kind of guy, but I had no problem with him. But one subcategory of fundies do scare me, the Christian Reconstructionists and the Dominionists. What they believe in is all too close to theocracy. It reminds me of Nehemiah Scudder (from the Heinlein story If This Goes On-- ...and that's one scary story).

 

[hazeleyes80]

Can't find the quote but William F. Buckeley said something once to the effect that if the religious right had its entire agenda enacted into law, America would resemble the country he remembers as a student at Yale in 1950. And that, he said, wasn't a bad country at all.

Now, of course, when liberals hear that, we get a lecture on Jim Crow and the "repression" of women. But that isn't what New Haven and most of America was about in 1950. It was about decency, intact families, a much smaller incarceration rate, a country which was more unified and where government and its "Zero Tolerance" policies didn't intrude into every aspect of life. It was a country in which Jews, Catholics and Protestants met on town greens to erect Ten Commandments momuments and in which whiners didn't run to a Federal judge everytime someone said a prayer or mentioned Jesus Christ at HS graduation.

That sounds so wonderful! My boyfriend and I half-joke a lot that we wish we could be the ages we are now, but back in the 50's. We sometimes feel like we were born in the wrong decades.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Letter to the editor of Tampa Bay Newspapers by Ron Sanders Pastor, Lighthouse Baptist Church Largo:



Discover the Networks on Media Matters:

You are being polite in comparison to what I think regarding liberals. Especially the ones who troll in a conservative forum.

 

[Albion]

But one subcategory of fundies do scare me, the Christian Reconstructionists and the Dominionists. What they believe in is all too close to theocracy. It reminds me of Nehemiah Scudder (from the Heinlein story If This Goes On-- ...and that's one scary story).

Not sure if those two should be put together. I tend to agree with you on the Reconstructionists, but the Dominionists I know are contending for nothing more than being active in promoting Christian values in society--something I think is as close to a Christian norm as there is. And they absolutely would not want a theocracy.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Not sure if those two should be put together. I tend to agree with you on the Reconstructionists, but the Dominionists I know are contending for nothing more than being active in promoting Christian values in society--something I think is as close to a Christian norm as there is. And they absolutely would not want a theocracy.

You may be right. I'll have to look into that some more. I have nothing at all against Christians being active in politics, or promoting Christian values.

 

[Voegelin]

That sounds so wonderful! My boyfriend and I half-joke a lot that we wish we could be the ages we are now, but back in the 50's. We sometimes feel like we were born in the wrong decades.

Nice to live in a culture which, everytime you turn around, isn't throwing something offensive in your face.

Cars were roomier too.

I'll like to go back a little further: to circa 1895. A time of optimism, a time of muscular Christianity.

While certainly less comfortable in material things another era I like is the high middle ages or, as some incorrectly term them, the "DARK AGES". That was holestic Christianity. Everyone had their little niche in a larger structure--the faith. Work, play, politics, faith, life, death all centered on the metaphysical. The village, the town, the city were in the world but not of the world. We can see it in their architecture. Other worldly. Ethereal.

 

[Voegelin]

Not sure if those two should be put together. I tend to agree with you on the Reconstructionists, but the Dominionists I know are contending for nothing more than being active in promoting Christian values in society--something I think is as close to a Christian norm as there is. And they absolutely would not want a theocracy.

Thanks for the information. I was unaware of that--probably because secular opposition to them is so intense. Looking into and defending either or both appeared to be a daunting task. If you ever post a thread on the subject, I would appreciate a heads up.