YECs and Tar Pits

[lasthero]

I was thinking about tar pits, recently, and did a little digging about them.

Tar pit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tar pits are interesting natural occurrences, where subterranean bitumen leaks to surface and creates a giant lake of deadly asphalt. Anything that gets stuck in these lakes is pretty much dead - animals can't get out, they die of exposure and starvation, they die, they sink. Someone one more knowledgeable like RickG can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my basic understanding.

What's interesting here is that it basically makes tar pits sort of a fossil maker. We've found about a million fossils thanks to them.

https://student.societyforscience.org/article/south-americas-sticky-tar-pits

But the funny thing is, we don't just find ANY fossils in these things, we find fossils from the Pleistocene epoch and upwards. This makes sense in an old earth - the traps only formed in the Pleistocene Epoch, so naturally, only animals that lived during that time would get caught in them.

In a young-earth, though, I'm curious how this would work. Why, out of the millions of animals caught in these traps, are there only animals we find in Pleistocene strata and upwards? Why have we never found any dinosaurs or animals that are often found with dinosaurs in this strata? No T-Rexs, no compsognathus, no triceratops. To the best of my knowledge, nothing like that has ever been found in a tar pit - why is that?

 

[AV1611VET]

In a young-earth, though, I'm curious how this would work. Why, out of the millions of animals caught in these traps, are there only animals we find in Pleistocene strata and upwards?

Um ... because other animals were smart enough to stay away from them?

Perhaps the types of animals found therein had a reason to be snooping around them?

Why is it only squirrels and rodents are found in swimming pools and artificial ponds?

 

[lasthero]

Um ... because other animals were smart enough to stay away from them?

Nope.

Perhaps the types of animals found therein had a reason to be snooping around them?

Nope.

Why is it only squirrels and rodents are found in swimming pools and artificial ponds?

Not even true.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not even true.

I take it you've never had an artificial pond?

 

[[serious]]

Um ... because other animals were smart enough to stay away from them?

Perhaps the types of animals found therein had a reason to be snooping around them?

Why is it only squirrels and rodents are found in swimming pools and artificial ponds?

Let me google that for you
Let me google that for you

 

[lasthero]

I take it you've never had an artificial pond?

I have. And I found things besides rodents and squirrels (which ARE rodents, by the way) in it.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have. And I found things besides rodents and squirrels (which ARE rodents, by the way) in it.

Good -- then I hope I have made my point.

Assuming everything should have moseyed into an asphalt lake and/or assuming anything that did mosey into one didn't have the ability to get out, makes poor evidence for evolution, IMO.

I forget who said it here, but one or two have made the point that even if we didn't have a fossil record, evolution would still stand.

So I'm not sure what this thread is all about ... other than to act like YECs should be stumped.

 

[lasthero]

Good -- then I hope I have made my point.

Nope.

Assuming everything should have moseyed into an asphalt lake and/or assuming anything that did mosey into one didn't have the ability to get out

I assumed no such thing. Learn to read.

So I'm not sure what this thread is all about

Then you shouldn't have said anything.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Bye.

 

[Andy 998]

Um ... because other animals were smart enough to stay away from them?

Dinosaurs were smart? the dinosaurs were long gone by the time tar pits came along.

 

[troodon]

But the funny thing is, we don't just find ANY fossils in these things, we find fossils from the Pleistocene epoch and upwards. This makes sense in an old earth - the traps only formed in the Pleistocene Epoch, so naturally, only animals that lived during that time would get caught in them.

This argument works for the entire geologic column. The fossil record conforms beautifully to the principle of faunal succession no matter where you're looking or what taxa you deal with. The fossil record is very very heavily sorted - science explains this by saying that it's sorted with respect to time, YECs have absolutely no explanation.

The research I'm doing for my dissertation is completely dependent on the reality of faunal succession. If all vertebrate animals who have ever lived all coexisted 6,000 years ago then the patterns I look at every day would not exist. You wouldn't see an orderly change from one fauna to another over time, it would be a giant jumbled mess.

 

[Queller]

I take it you've never had an artificial pond?

I had a pool and once found a dead cat in it. Therefore your hypothesis is falsified.

 

[AV1611VET]

I had a pool and once found a dead cat in it.

But you didn't find every other type of animals in it, did you?

Some animals that landed in the pool could easily escape, couldn't they?

 

[Strathos]

At least AV is trying (albeit failing rather spectacularly) to answer this one. Where are all the other creationists?

 

[Queller]

But you didn't find every other type of animals in it, did you?

Some animals that landed in the pool could easily escape, couldn't they?

Sure and others couldn't. On what basis are you attempting to imply that all dinosaurs could escape the tar pits when similarly sized mammals couldn't?

BTW, the most common animal fossils found in the La Brea tar pits are dire wolves, saber-toothed cats, and coyotes. All much larger than "squirrels and rodents".

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure and others couldn't. On what basis are you attempting to imply that all dinosaurs could escape the tar pits when similarly sized mammals couldn't?

I didn't say that, did I?

BTW, the most common animal fossils found in the La Brea tar pits are dire wolves, saber-toothed cats, and coyotes. All much larger than "squirrels and rodents".

You don't get it, do you?

Here's part of the OP again:

But the funny thing is, we don't just find ANY fossils in these things, we find fossils from the Pleistocene epoch and upwards. This makes sense in an old earth - the traps only formed in the Pleistocene Epoch, so naturally, only animals that lived during that time would get caught in them.

You're dating the tar pits from what is found in them, and dating what is found in them by the tar pits.

The argument is based on the assumption that no human, no rabbits, and no barbecue grills or automobiles have been found in these tar pits.

And that's assuming scientists would even report something found therein that goes against evolution.

 

[RickG]

You're dating the tar pits from what is found in them, and dating what is found in them by the tar pits.

Are you trying to use the YEC circular reasoning argument?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you trying to use the YEC circular reasoning argument?

I'm just pointing out why I'm not buying that argument for evolution.

(And I'm not even a YEC.)

 

[[serious]]

You're dating the tar pits from what is found in them, and dating what is found in them by the tar pits.

Let me google that for you

 

[RickG]

I'm just pointing out why I'm not buying that argument for evolution.

(And I'm not even a YEC.)

Then how do you explain the fact that only Pleistocene fossils are found there?

 

[RickG]

(And I'm not even a YEC.)

Yes you are. You believe that the earth was created only 6,000 years ago, therefore, a "young" earth. The only difference in your idea and that of YEC's is that God deliberately planted everything with specific ages and characteristics to make it all look old.