YEC (Young Earth Creationism)

FaithT

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I may have posted about this before but I just am having a really difficult time with the LCMS teaching on YEC. How many LCMS here believe in an old earth? Is it a popular opinion at your church? If you’re YEC, any links you could share that would change my mind?
 

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theoneandonlypencil

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I'm pro-evolution and old earth. :) I believe Genesis was written with a literary/metaphorical purpose in mind; not to act as a pseudo-science textbook.
 
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Daniel9v9

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The six-day creation account has caused a lot of controversy, and especially in later years in the face of higher criticism, methodological naturalism and the theory of (macro)evolution.

The orthodox Lutheran, and I would argue the historical Christian, position, is that six days means simply 6 natural 24 hour days. This is what Luther taught and is affirmed by several, if not the vast majority, of heavyweight Lutheran theologians since.

This position is still held by the WELS, and though the LCMS have been somewhat vague on the subject of late (though they didn't used to be!), in 2019, they re-affirmed an official stance on it where they absolutely affirm that the world was made in six natural days.

So, this is all to say, the historical orthodox Lutheran position is that six days means just that - six days. Now, I don't think other views are necessarily considered heresy, but heterodox.

As a side note, I can add that I wasn't raised a Lutheran - I come from a Pentecostal/Charismatic/non-denominational environment, where I just took for granted that the six-day creation account was figurative, for that's essentially what the world and my church bodies taught. I went from being a firm believer in that the creation happened over millions of years, to being indifferent, to then finally realising that we're not at liberty to stretch the meaning of God's Word. I'll explain:

Scriptures clearly teach that:

1. All of Scripture is God-breathed and true.

2. Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is God in flesh, refers to the creation account as true, and this is reflected throughout the NT. In other words, we have the sure testimony of Jesus, who, as God, created the world.

3. Adam was the first man, created out of the earth directly by the hand of God. This is contrasted by Eve, who was created by God out of Adam. It is very clear that they were not born of natural birth, but created. It is also very clear that they were not made from animals, but were made in the image of God as an entirely different species.

4. There was no death before the fall. Death, both temporal (separation of body and spirit) and eternal (damnation), are consequences of sin, and were not part of God's original creation. We also see this original design echoed in the new creation, where once again, we are (1) raised bodily and (2) are never to die.

This is just a brief summary, and there are many other arguments that can be made, but I think these are perhaps the most important ones that clearly illustrates how incompatible the theory of evolution is with Genesis.

Basically, Genesis is not a poetry book, and we can't force modern theories on it, but it needs to be read and understood on its own terms, because it sets the foundation for the other books of Moses and ultimately all of Scripture, which centres around and culminates in the person and works of Christ. For example, I think it can be easy for someone who views Genesis as a purely figurative work to lose sight of the creation with original righteousness, then the fall and original sin, which then produces a low view on sin and God's Law, which then reduces the Gospel.

When it comes to creation controversies, I think the best position we can take is, rather to speculate on theories that can work, is to be on guard against theories that do not work and be content with what God has revealed. The creation was undoubtedly of epic proportions, yet, in the Bible condensed to only a few words, where it quickly shifts focus to man: the crown of God's creation, and Jesus Christ, the Lord of all.
 
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FaithT

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The six-day creation account has caused a lot of controversy, and especially in later years in the face of higher criticism, methodological naturalism and the theory of (macro)evolution.

The orthodox Lutheran, and I would argue the historical Christian, position, is that six days means simply 6 natural 24 hour days. This is what Luther taught and is affirmed by several, if not the vast majority, of heavyweight Lutheran theologians since.

This position is still held by the WELS, and though the LCMS have been somewhat vague on the subject of late (though they didn't used to be!), in 2019, they re-affirmed an official stance on it where they absolutely affirm that the world was made in six natural days.

So, this is all to say, the historical orthodox Lutheran position is that six days means just that - six days. Now, I don't think other views are necessarily considered heresy, but heterodox.

As a side note, I can add that I wasn't raised a Lutheran - I come from a Pentecostal/Charismatic/non-denominational environment, where I just took for granted that the six-day creation account was figurative, for that's essentially what the world and my church bodies taught. I went from being a firm believer in that the creation happened over millions of years, to being indifferent, to then finally realising that we're not at liberty to stretch the meaning of God's Word. I'll explain:

Scriptures clearly teach that:

1. All of Scripture is God-breathed and true.

2. Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is God in flesh, refers to the creation account as true, and this is reflected throughout the NT. In other words, we have the sure testimony of Jesus, who, as God, created the world.

3. Adam was the first man, created out of the earth directly by the hand of God. This is contrasted by Eve, who was created by God out of Adam. It is very clear that they were not born of natural birth, but created. It is also very clear that they were not made from animals, but were made in the image of God as an entirely different species.

4. There was no death before the fall. Death, both temporal (separation of body and spirit) and eternal (damnation), are consequences of sin, and were not part of God's original creation. We also see this original design echoed in the new creation, where once again, we are (1) raised bodily and (2) are never to die.

This is just a brief summary, and there are many other arguments that can be made, but I think these are perhaps the most important ones that clearly illustrates how incompatible the theory of evolution is with Genesis.

Basically, Genesis is not a poetry book, and we can't force modern theories on it, but it needs to be read and understood on its own terms, because it sets the foundation for the other books of Moses and ultimately all of Scripture, which centres around and culminates in the person and works of Christ. For example, I think it can be easy for someone who views Genesis as a purely figurative work to lose sight of the creation with original righteousness, then the fall and original sin, which then produces a low view on sin and God's Law, which then reduces the Gospel.

When it comes to creation controversies, I think the best position we can take is, rather to speculate on theories that can work, is to be on guard against theories that do not work and be content with what God has revealed. The creation was undoubtedly of epic proportions, yet, in the Bible condensed to only a few words, where it quickly shifts focus to man: the crown of God's creation, and Jesus Christ, the Lord of all.
I can believe God created in six days, but what about the teaching the earth is around 6000 years old rather than billions?
 
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tampasteve

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Doesn’t that go against LCMS teaching?
No, not exactly. From the LCMS Document "The Bible"
"The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod does not have an official position on the precise "age of the
earth," since the Bible itself does not tell us how old the earth is. Nor is it the Synod's position that
everything in the Bible is to be understood "literally." There is much in the Bible that clearly purports not
to be understood literally--but this must be determined by the Bible itself, not by science or human
reason. There is nothing in the Bible itself to suggest that the creation account is not meant to be taken
literally.

The Synod has affirmed the belief, therefore, based on Scripture's account of creation in the book of
Genesis and other clear passages of Scripture, that "God by the almighty power of His Word created all
things in six days by a series of creative acts," that "Adam and Eve were real, historical human beings,
the first two people in the world," and that "we must confess what St. Paul says in Romans 5:12" about
the origin of sin through Adam as described in Genesis 3 (1967 Synodical Resolution 2-31). The Synod
has also, therefore, stated that it rejects "all those world views, philosophical theories, exegetical
interpretations and other hypotheses which pervert these biblical teachings and thus obscure the
Gospel" (1967 Synodical Resolution 2-31).

At the same time, the Synod firmly believes that there can be no actual contradiction between genuine
scientific truth and the Bible. When it comes to the issue of the age of the earth, several possibilities
exist for "harmonizing" Biblical teachings with scientific studies (e.g., God created the world in an
already "mature" state, so that scientific "data" leads one to the conclusion that it is older than it
actually is, etc.)
"

That said, studies have shown that the percentage of LCMS members that believe in evolution and a non-literal creation event or 6K years is fairly close to the other Lutheran synods in the USA. The LCMS leaves room for interpretation to the believer, within the bounds above.
 
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tampasteve

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President Harrison has been pretty clear that he believes in the YE and a literal interpretation of Genesis. His views hold much weight, but he is not in the position to make statements of belief for the whole LCMS.
Here is a blog from him that lays it out pretty clearly as per his interpretation:
Concerning the six-day creation
 
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Daniel9v9

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I can believe God created in six days, but what about the teaching the earth is around 6000 years old rather than billions?

Well, in short, we can understand the earth to be young for several of reasons, but just as a simple concrete example, we know that Adam was the first man and that he became 930 years old. That’s a Biblical truth that flies in the face of evolutionary theory.
 
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FaithT

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Well, in short, we can understand the earth to be young for several of reasons, but just as a simple concrete example, we know that Adam was the first man and that he became 930 years old. That’s a Biblical truth that flies in the face of evolutionary theory.
Sorry, but all scientific evidence points to an old earth. I’ve been thinking about leaving Lutheranism over this. It’s always been a sticking point with me.
 
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TKA_TN

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Sorry, but all scientific evidence points to an old earth. I’ve been thinking about leaving Lutheranism over this. It’s always been a sticking point with me.

I understand how you feel, but this isn’t a matter of salvation. While doctrine is important in many issues, we must never lose site of Christ crucified.

I’ve been guilty of this far too often in my life. Until I found Confessional Lutheranism. The “Christian Freedom” expressed by it was just such a relief for many things for me. But we all must follow what God is pressing on our hearts.

I’ll be praying for you.
 
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FaithT

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I understand how you feel, but this isn’t a matter of salvation. While doctrine is important in many issues, we must never lose site of Christ crucified.

I’ve been guilty of this far too often in my life. Until I found Confessional Lutheranism. The “Christian Freedom” expressed by it was just such a relief for many things for me. But we all must follow what God is pressing on our hearts.

I’ll be praying for you.
What’s Confessional Lutheranism?
 
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TKA_TN

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What’s Confessional Lutheranism?

LCMS, WELS, etc. Lutheran bodies that still strongly hold to the Lutheran confessions held in the Book of Concord.

Put more simply, the conservative Lutheran bodies.
 
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FaithT

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No, not exactly. From the LCMS Document "The Bible"
"The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod does not have an official position on the precise "age of the
earth," since the Bible itself does not tell us how old the earth is. Nor is it the Synod's position that
everything in the Bible is to be understood "literally." There is much in the Bible that clearly purports not
to be understood literally--but this must be determined by the Bible itself, not by science or human
reason. There is nothing in the Bible itself to suggest that the creation account is not meant to be taken
literally.

The Synod has affirmed the belief, therefore, based on Scripture's account of creation in the book of
Genesis and other clear passages of Scripture, that "God by the almighty power of His Word created all
things in six days by a series of creative acts," that "Adam and Eve were real, historical human beings,
the first two people in the world," and that "we must confess what St. Paul says in Romans 5:12" about
the origin of sin through Adam as described in Genesis 3 (1967 Synodical Resolution 2-31). The Synod
has also, therefore, stated that it rejects "all those world views, philosophical theories, exegetical
interpretations and other hypotheses which pervert these biblical teachings and thus obscure the
Gospel" (1967 Synodical Resolution 2-31).

At the same time, the Synod firmly believes that there can be no actual contradiction between genuine
scientific truth and the Bible. When it comes to the issue of the age of the earth, several possibilities
exist for "harmonizing" Biblical teachings with scientific studies (e.g., God created the world in an
already "mature" state, so that scientific "data" leads one to the conclusion that it is older than it
actually is, etc.)
"

That said, studies have shown that the percentage of LCMS members that believe in evolution and a non-literal creation event or 6K years is fairly close to the other Lutheran synods in the USA. The LCMS leaves room for interpretation to the believer, within the bounds above.
Besides the possibility that God created the world in a mature state, how else could this be explained?

and isn’t it a kind of contradiction where the LCMS says there is no official position on the precise age of the earth but then makes it sound like the earth is young?
 
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FaithT

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Besides the possibility that God created the world in a mature state, how else could this be explained?

And isn’t it a kind of contradiction where the LCMS says there is no official position on the precise age of the earth but then makes it sound like the earth is young?
 
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