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YEC: Fairy tale or Biblical truth?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by ocean, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. Philosoft

    Philosoft Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related

    +170
    Atheist
    Yeah, well, I can have it removed if it becomes a problem.
    Do you know where the 6,000 year figure came from? It's really an astonishingly stupid deduction.
    And, as no sane man has proffered the "exact age," we can be pretty comfortable with our 4.6 billion years.
    You do seem to understand the sheer inanity of Ussher's "calculations."
    Fine, but no one method is held-up above all others as "the absolutely true method of dating the age of the earth." But they all have a significant degree of overlap.
    No, there are not. And you'd better not pull out a lame "50 scientists who are creationists" list.
    Science isn't terribly concerned that their earth-age is egregiously wrong.
    Oh? Then we should be able to get some good science from the Bible after all.
     
  2. David Gould

    David Gould Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

    +487
    Atheist
    AU-Labor
    Or alternatively a once and for all declaration that the Bible is not a science book. That would be nice to hear from, say, AIG and ICR. One day, one day ...
     
  3. OldBadfish

    OldBadfish Well-Known Member

    +20
    Nobody knows how old the earth is, I don't think YECers are threatening to science, it's part of a literal interpretation of Gods word.

    Overall it really doesn't matter, because I don't believe science is going to prove anything in our lifetimes, and the one true reality is certain death and the promise of everlasting life, thats a big promise and very important.

    Imagine being immortal with the creator himself, how much wisdom you will have then! If this is truth then God is worthy of everlasting praise.

    I want to live forever, either way you slice it, only God the creator can promise you this, not science or philosophy.
     
  4. Jet Black

    Jet Black Guest

    +0
    well we can't give it a birthday, but we know that we need to buy at least a couple of billion candles.
     
  5. Mainframes

    Mainframes Regular Member

    595
    +11
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    Hurricane to blow out all the candles anyone??
     
  6. Siliconaut

    Siliconaut Not to be confused with the other Norman Hartnell

    733
    +1
    @JetBlack:
    *gg* There's a good'un. :)
     
  7. Sinai

    Sinai Well-Known Member

    +15
    Protestant
    It might be noted that Ussher based his figures and assumptions upon the wording of the KJV rather than consulting the origional languages; he assumed that no generations were omitted from mention in the biblical genealogies; and he ignored Hebrew scholarship and commentaries regarding the actual meanings of certain words and phrases.
    Especially if one bases his figures and calculations solely upon his own interpretation of what a translation means rather than consulting the original language, Hebrew custom and usage of certain words and phrases and geneological recording practices, and related biblical scholarship.
    No. That is merely some people's rather questionable interpretation.

    What data do you use to conclude that the number of these "scientists" is growing?
    If scripture and science seem to be contradicting each other on a particular matter, it may very likely be that we either do not understand what science is actually presenting or that we do not fully understand what the Bible may be saying--or both. In other words, it may be time to check both the most credible scientific sources available, and to check what the actual Hebrew or Greek scriptures say--and what the range of meanings is for the words and phrases in question....
     
  8. MAC

    MAC Is of God's Grace

    375
    +4
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I think you will find your answers in;

    Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

    Job 38:2 Who [is] this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

    Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

    Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

    Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Job 38:8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, [as if] it had issued out of the womb?

    Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

    Job 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed [place], and set bars and doors,

    Job 38:11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

    Job 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; [and] caused the dayspring to know his place;

    Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

    Job 38:14 It is turned as clay [to] the seal; and they stand as a garment.

    Job 38:15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

    Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

    Job 38:17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

    Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

    Job 38:19 Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof,

    Job 38:20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths [to] the house thereof?

    Job 38:21 Knowest thou [it], because thou wast then born? or [because] the number of thy days [is] great?

    Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

    Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

    Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, [which] scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

    Job 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;

    Job 38:26 To cause it to rain on the earth, [where] no man [is; on] the wilderness, wherein [there is] no man;

    Job 38:27 To satisfy the desolate and waste [ground]; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

    Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?

    Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

    Job 38:30 The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

    Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

    Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

    Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

    Job 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?

    Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we [are]?

    Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

    Job 38:37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

    Job 38:38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?

    Job 38:39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,

    Job 38:40 When they couch in [their] dens, [and] abide in the covert to lie in wait?

    Job 38:41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
     
  9. OldBadfish

    OldBadfish Well-Known Member

    +20
    Won't we need a permit for that?
     
  10. OldBadfish

    OldBadfish Well-Known Member

    +20
    Ehhh MAC, its no use, as long as God did it who cares? There will always be speculation, as creationists we don't have a chance against evolutionists.
     
  11. MAC

    MAC Is of God's Grace

    375
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    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    And in;

    Job 39:1 Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? [or] canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?

    Job 39:2 Canst thou number the months [that] they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

    Job 39:3 They bow themselves, they bring forth their young ones, they cast out their sorrows.

    Job 39:4 Their young ones are in good liking, they grow up with corn; they go forth, and return not unto them.

    Job 39:5 Who hath sent out the wild *** free? or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ***?

    Job 39:6 Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren land his dwellings.

    Job 39:7 He scorneth the multitude of the city, neither regardeth he the crying of the driver.

    Job 39:8 The range of the mountains [is] his pasture, and he searcheth after every green thing.

    Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

    Job 39:10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?

    Job 39:11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength [is] great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?

    Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather [it into] thy barn?

    Job 39:13 [Gavest thou] the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?

    Job 39:14 Which leaveth her eggs in the earth, and warmeth them in dust,

    Job 39:15 And forgetteth that the foot may crush them, or that the wild beast may break them.

    Job 39:16 She is hardened against her young ones, as though [they were] not hers: her labour is in vain without fear;

    Job 39:17 Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding.

    Job 39:18 What time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider.

    Job 39:19 Hast thou given the horse strength? hast thou clothed his neck with thunder?

    Job 39:20 Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils [is] terrible.

    Job 39:21 He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in [his] strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.

    Job 39:22 He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.

    Job 39:23 The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.

    Job 39:24 He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that [it is] the sound of the trumpet.

    Job 39:25 He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.

    Job 39:26 Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, [and] stretch her wings toward the south?

    Job 39:27 Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?

    Job 39:28 She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.

    Job 39:29 From thence she seeketh the prey, [and] her eyes behold afar off.

    Job 39:30 Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain [are], there [is] she.
     
  12. Jet Black

    Jet Black Guest

    +0
    do you know how annoying block quoting stuff like that without saying anything yourself is?
     
  13. MAC

    MAC Is of God's Grace

    375
    +4
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    And Finaly;

    Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,

    Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct [him]? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

    Job 40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

    Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

    Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

    Job 40:6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

    Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

    Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

    Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

    Job 40:10 Deck thyself now [with] majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

    Job 40:11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one [that is] proud, and abase him.

    Job 40:12 Look on every one [that is] proud, [and] bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

    Job 40:13 Hide them in the dust together; [and] bind their faces in secret.

    Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

    Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

    Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins, and his force [is] in the navel of his belly.

    Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

    Job 40:18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass; his bones [are] like bars of iron.

    Job 40:19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach [unto him].

    Job 40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

    Job 40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

    Job 40:22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

    Job 40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

    Job 40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares.

    And Job 41..........

    Bring Out The Beauty Steadfastly

    In Christ Jesus
    MAC
     
  14. MAC

    MAC Is of God's Grace

    375
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    Those words have more meanings than anything that I can say at this point! :)

    Read it them and you will found out.............
     
  15. Arikay

    Arikay HI

    +175
    Taoist
    You know, most of us have bibles or online bibles, you chould just say read Name #:#-# instead of pasting huge sets of verses.
     
  16. MAC

    MAC Is of God's Grace

    375
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    I am just make it easy for the reader so that they can continue reading, plus how many do you think will open their bible to physically read it.
     
  17. MAC

    MAC Is of God's Grace

    375
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    qt


    "The sponge is a creature which lives in many parts of the world, and is regularly harvested in the Gulf of Mexico. This little fellow has no heart, brain, liver, bones, and hardly anything else. Some sponges grow to several feet in diameter; yet you can take one, cut it up in pieces, and squeeze it through silk cloth, thus separating every cell from every other cell, and then throw part or all of the mash back into seawater. The cells will all unite back into a sponge! yet a sponge is not a haphazard arrangement of cells; it is a complicated structure of openings, channels, and more besides."

    "Yes, we said they have no brains; but now consider what they do: Without any brains to guide him, the male sponge knows—to the very minute—when the tide is about to begin coming in. Immediately he releases seed into the water and the tide carries them in. The female sponge may be half a mile away, but she is smart enough (without having any more brains than he has) to know that there are seeds from the male above her in the water. Immediately recognizing this, she releases thousands of eggs which float upward like a cloud and meet the male sperm. The eggs are fertilized and new baby sponges are eventually produced. Really, now, Uncle Charlie, you never explained the origin of the species. Can you explain anything else about them?"

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. troodon

    troodon Be wise and be smart

    +51
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    I don't get it. Are you trying to say that sponges knowing when to release their gametes into the environment is magical? Because all your post did was basically say that you know of no natural mechanism through which sponges can tell when to release their gametes. Are you really saying that sponges are magical?

    Also, I was under the impression that sponges only had one sex that produced both types of gametes (like a plant); although I could be wrong.
     
  19. Arikay

    Arikay HI

    +175
    Taoist
    1) Yes, I do expect people to actually read it. Most here do. It doesnt take long to go to www.blueletterbible.org and type in the verses.

    2A) You really should cite your source that you get quote from. The quote came from, http://evolution-facts.org/c04.htm

    2B) How honest do you think it is for a site to be called "evolution-facts" yet completly screw up the definition of the Theory of Evolution?
    Seems kinda underhanded to me, but then thats me. :)

     
  20. Jet Black

    Jet Black Guest

    +0
    either that or vastly intelligent megabrains.
     
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