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Ye Olde Libertarian Pub (2)

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Sojourner1, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +13,808
    Anglican
    Married
    I'll have to go back to using smilies if that post was taken for serious.
     
  2. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,501
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
     
  3. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,501
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
     
  4. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

    +873
    United States
    Pagan
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Woah, this thread exists? NICE!

    I've been reading into libertarianism quite a bit over the last couple of months. There is a lot I don't understand but I feel it is a political philosophy that aligns very much with my beliefs.
     
  5. Calvinist Dark Lord

    Calvinist Dark Lord Regular Member

    +454
    Presbyterian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Bottom line is that i didn't take you serious. However, if you feel the need to question me on something, by all means, go for it. Iron Sharpeneth Iron, & c.
     
  6. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

    +1,031
    Baptist
    Married
    "It's time to end wars and use that money at home."

    Bingo! Found out last week, after taking a political quiz, that I am very much a libertarian and didn't even know it. :p
     
  7. FaithfulPilgrim

    FaithfulPilgrim Eternally Seeking

    424
    +104
    United States
    Christian
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    US-Libertarian
    I'm considering joining the Libertarian Party. I agree with the LP for the most part, but areas where I differ from the platform are: abortion (I'm pro-life), fiscal stance (I'm a Georgist and support a Land Value Tax), and I also oppose a non-interventionist foreign policy, but wouldn't call myself a neolibertarian, either.

    I wonder what's a better fit for me, the LP or the Reform Party. They are the only two parties I see myself realistically joining.

    I could possibly join the Constitution Party, albeit I'd be a more socially libertarian member, and I would like to see them soften their stance on immigration.

    Between the LP or the Reform Party, which seems like a better fit?
     
  8. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,501
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    By far the LP. I have known Georgists in there. I doubt that you'll feel like a good fit in the Reform Party.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  9. FaithfulPilgrim

    FaithfulPilgrim Eternally Seeking

    424
    +104
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    I agree with you. I guess the Libertarians are the only ones I fit in with.

    I'm curious why you say the Reform Party isn't a good fit, though. My main qualm with them is that they are too small and irrelevant in size and influence. Their platform seems kinda vague.
     
  10. Calvinist Dark Lord

    Calvinist Dark Lord Regular Member

    +454
    Presbyterian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    A little "Monday morning quarterbacking".

    It seems that Gary Johnson, while getting a record percentage of the vote was not the guy we wanted representing LIBERTARIAN issues...he seemed more interested in promoting his pot growing business than being a Libertarian.

    Don't get me started on Bill Weld, because i just got over a stroke that i had in June, and have no desire to have another one.

    i just wish Ron Paul was 20 years younger.
     
  11. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,501
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    I thought that he did great. He wasn't "promoting" his cannabis products business (he was asked about this repeatedly!), though he didn't hide or express shame about that either.

    Let's face it...he beat any previous LP record by at least three times. All of this armchair quarterbacking is meaningless in the face of that. Many libertarians seem to think that if only they were the campaign manager, they would have done better. It is nothing more than conceit.

    What Gary Johnson had shown in his actual performance is that it is possible for a Libertarian candidate to appeal to the middle and get results, instead of making a hard right turn (Austin Peterson's strategy). This is valuable information for the future, because appealing to the right could flood the party with the alt-right and social conservatives, and that would be a disaster.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  12. Calvinist Dark Lord

    Calvinist Dark Lord Regular Member

    +454
    Presbyterian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    We disagree Mark. i think that Johnson did better than any other previous Libertarian candidate (including his own 2012 run) because of the unique political situation of 2016.

    It wasn't that Johnson was good, it was more likely that it was because the major party candidates were so terrible.

    i don't think i could have done better, so cross me off that list. i just don't happen to think that Gary Johnson is representative of Libertarian thought and should not have been the nominee. As a member of the party for 30 years now...back when being a Libertarian actually meant something, i can tell you that we're going to take a long hard look at the direction of the party.

    Besides, i seem to recall that Trump won an election with Alt-right and Sociocons. And he won them over DESPITE the support of Peter Thiel, who is hardly alt-right or sociocon. .
     
  13. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +58
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    What about him did you view as not right. I'd agree with your statements, just wondering the details. What did you think of McMillian?
     
  14. Vyrzaharak

    Vyrzaharak Member

    201
    +52
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I'm a libertarian, particularly an Autarchist as coined by Robert Lefevre.

    A sample of my "political" views:

    • First and foremost, I assume nothing less or more than sapience is necessary for exercising or violating rights.
    • Rights are not positive obligations as you cannot force anyone into activity. Some examples include:
      • I may or may not have the right to speak, but since you don't own other people you don't get to decide what they listen to.
      • I may or may not have the right to bear arms, but since you do not own me you are not at liberty to decide how I may or may not arm myself.
      • I may or may not have the right to privacy, but since you are not paying for the privilege of being the recipient of my material or the owner of my storage it is not for you to read or infer.
      • I may or may not have the right to refuse business, but you do not have the right to demand my labor.
      • Etc.
    • (With the above in mind, even though I do believe abortion to be morally abhorrent, even moreso than even most pro-life groups, I believe the best course-of-action is legalized abortion. I think the market will come up with the best solution to fighting abortion, and it may already have done so.)
    • Whatever rights the individual has, are the rights any collective authority has; if I as an individual do not have the right to kill, neither does any collective. Whatever is good for the goose, is good for the gander.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  15. OrthodoxLady1994

    OrthodoxLady1994 New Member

    40
    +51
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    In Relationship
    US-Constitution
    Greetings! I identify as a Libertarian as I believe that the only laws should serve two purposes, to protect the safety and/or civil liberty of the people. That's it, anything that does not accomplish that in some way, to my mind is a bad law.

    How this plays out well... I'm a social conservative, I oppose abortion on the grounds of firm, science-based belief that the unborn are living human beings from conception forward and therefore to kill them would rob another individual of their most basic right of life itself.

    I'm a proponent of the rights of same-sex couples and both homosexual and transgendered individuals. Whether I personally agree with or am comfortable with their choices is irrelevant, they are human beings and fellow citizens in a secular society and therefore, what they do, provided they don't harm anyone or force others to participate in some way without consent, is between them and God.

    I don't know what the answer is about healthcare, pure capitalism is unrealistic unless there is a dramatic decrease in pricing, but single payer is not feasible in a country with as high a population as the USA and tends to be less open to experimental and alternative medicine, which I believe that all people should have the right to seek out. My biggest issue with Trump's plan is the blatant eugenicism which would drastically increase costs specifically for those with chronic and pre-existing conditions, morally I simply can't get behind this and as I am in that group it puts me in danger as well along with several people I love.

    I'm not anti-vax exactly but I don't think the government has the right to make a medical decision for a child (or adult) when the science to back up the safety of that choice is less than clear. So at this point in time they shouldn't be mandated.

    I also think that the education system should be dismantled and rebuilt to basically a collection of charter schools, with the same accountability of charter schools now, namely that they have to perform in terms of student achievement in basic subjects in order to retain their funding and stay open. I also think that every family should receive a voucher for the average cost of a private school to be used toward tuition if they choose to send that child to a private school or for supplies if hey decide to home school.

    Immigration: No one likes illegal immigration but the fact is that due to corruption south of the border it is extremely difficult for a law abiding citizen of average or below average means to get a visa to come here legally. We need to fix that situation before we automatically treat these people like criminals. Also when there are children involved the situation has to be handled altogether differently as taking their parents away and destroying families will only damage the children.

    Also the "travel ban" Trump has been trying to force through is immoral, unconstitutional, and wouldn't have made us any safer. I am, and have been from the beginning 100% against it.

    So you tell me, am I a libertarian?
     
  16. szechuan

    szechuan Newbie

    +740
    Agnostic
    Private
    I personally disagree with Single Payer not working, more population = more taxes overall. If handled Correctly it should work. Most countries with it have improved and or tried wait times, accessibility, and care in general.

    Or
    You can look up how Germany handles there healthcare. They actually have Health Insurance however the rules in place help the people and not the corporations and it has been working extremely well. They have kept prices down for the most part and definitely much lower then how it's handled in the U.S.
     
  17. Waddler

    Waddler Live a story worth telling well.

    +531
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    I consider myself a conservative libertarian-ish, so I hope to hang out here and learn more about libertarianism. I follow the idea of the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number of people, though I see room for a lot of gray area in how that's defined.

    I think the biggest problem I have is with a non-interventionist approach to foreign policy. I don't think the U.S. should be sticking its nose into everyone's business, but a threat ignored can come back to bite us. I think we'd do well to observe the global landscape, but unless we see a viable threat to our interests, we should stay out of it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  18. hislegacy

    hislegacy Staying in the middle of the road.

    +4,834
    Charismatic
    Married
    US-Others
     
  19. FaithfulPilgrim

    FaithfulPilgrim Eternally Seeking

    424
    +104
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    How do you feel about business owners turning away customers or refusing to serve customers that go against their religious beliefs, like making a wedding cake for a same sex couple?

    Do you think the owner should also be able to turn away people of different religions and races as well?
     
  20. Doulosiesou

    Doulosiesou Member

    183
    +80
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Private business yes, an owner should be able to determine their clients. Problem is government spending is so mixed in with private enterprise it's darn near impossible to split the 2 out.

    I consider myself a libertarian conservative but realize the world is so steeped in socialism, communism and fascism it would almost impossible to get any real libertarian policies implemented without a collapse of the banking system.

    Money controls our lives far more than governments, it is the true 'shadow government'.
     
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