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  1. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    In John 10:34 Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6 and says, “ye are gods”. So what is your opinion on this? Are human beings actually gods?

    I have heard the claim that this passage means that we are judges but I’m not buying that argument as it doesn’t seem to fit the context of the passage.

    John 10:34

    Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020 at 6:19 PM
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  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    This theological concept is called theosis.

    Perichoresis may also be related.
     
  3. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    I have been studying theosis lately and that’s actually why I created this thread. But I wanted to get some opinions on this and create a discussion.

    The other term you mentioned I am not familiar with.
     
  4. ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

    ImAllLikeOkWaitWat For who can resist his will?

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    If it says ye are gods then ye are surely gods.
     
  5. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    It's a concept that says we are in a circle dance with the Trinity, we don't become God, but we are invited to join the circle and dance.
     
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  6. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Active Member

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    the Hebrew elohim is indeed used in the OT for human "judges", who were representing The Lord.

    "Then his master shall bring him unto the judges (elohim); he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever" (Exodus 21:6)

    "If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges (elohim), to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods" (22:8)

    " If one man sin against another, the judge (elohim) shall judge him: but if a man sin against the Lord, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the Lord would slay them." (1 Samuel 2:25)
     
  7. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Active Member

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    no, it does not! see my reply above
     
  8. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    I’ve heard this argument before but I don’t agree with it.

    If you read the context of John 10:34 Jesus was replying because they were upset that he claimed to be the son of God. The word judges doesn’t fit in that context. It wouldn’t be a valid comparison on Jesus part. Here Jesus was clearly stating that he was a God and asking them why they were upset because they are also gods.
     
  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Read the next verse... "but like mortals you will die...
     
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  10. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    Could it mean we are as humans overseers in our own reality?

    Jesus is mentioning law, and that it say ye are gods. So could that be the meaning?

    Adam and Eve governed over all things, animals, birds, and what not, so do we in our own life govern over it.

    Yet we will die unlike God. Carl good mention!
     
  11. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    this is considered to be the scripture Jesus is referring to:

    (Psa 82:1) A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
    (Psa 82:2) How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
    (Psa 82:3) Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
    (Psa 82:4) Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
    (Psa 82:5) They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
    (Psa 82:6) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
    (Psa 82:7) But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
    (Psa 82:8) Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

    i think Jesus was saying that Psa 82:7 applied to the Jews (John 10:24) that were about to stone Him in John 10:31
     
  12. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    An alternate view is that the gods spoken of are part of the Divine Council, which Psalm 82 seems to give a glimpse into.



    michael Heiser does a great job explaining this topic.. his teachings on this are easy to find.

    It should be evident, though, that it is not humans being spoken to, because the speaker said “ye are gods, sons of the Most High, but ye shall die like men”.

    there is no need to tell a human “ye shall die like men”, because men die... and we all know we die...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020 at 7:15 PM
  13. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    But the New Testament tells us that we are the sons of God and that we will be resurrected in imperishable bodies.
     
  14. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
    Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
    Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
    Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
    Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
    Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
    Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
    Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

    David is accusing God of being an unjust judge. Since we don't accept that as true, why think "gods" in verse 1 is a statement of fact?

    When Job was angry with God he also accused him of being unjust:

    Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
    Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

    I think Christ knew the Pharisee's did not understand this passage and used their ignorance against them so he could get away with saying he was God's Son which is the same as saying you are God because the Son of God the Father would also be God. Nowhere in this chapter does God say anyone is a "god". Only David said that and he is likely being sarcastic since he says these "god's" would die as mortal men in verse 7.
     
  15. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    Nope. Jesus said the scripture cannot be broken.
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Does that mean you agree with David in verse 2 where he says God is an unjust judge?
     
  17. grumix8

    grumix8 New Member

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    To say that is dangerous even though he made us we have fallen from the form he made us, and we are in sin. Only God is God, special title he has no one can call, to say sons of god is not equal to "god". Because remember when man want to become gods they misintrepret when jesus who is man is god himself ! but he does in A special form that he loves and love is the only thing that god gives man to be like him. not athourity or powers but what jesus did to love is what god wants out of men.

    People take granted he gave A power and we say kissing and hugging are small things but don't realize how powerful love is that is A gift he gave us and resemblance and inheritance is there.When people don't understand how he said things they use violence to reach god. that's how we get the Romans, the Greeks, and the Babylonians. When man want things in force to hold and control they use violence and submission to their fellow man.

    Never understand he always gave us that gift to love like jesus and thus have the power he had to change millions. We are sons of G-d but never the athourity and power he had. And if they use love instead of war and violence they will have that power jesus had.
     
  18. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Yes of course but we will never have the status of the Godhead having been a created mortal.
     
  19. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    Jesus calls him an unjust judge in Luke 18.
     
  20. Noxot

    Noxot Ye are gods but die as men, fallen principalities Supporter

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    The whole psalm 82 is about a death and rebirth. Gods Judgment of the earth is restoration of his children. Humans are blinded from reality and Christ plainly showed them the truth but they couldn't accept it and so they keep lying about themselves and living in darkness. Christianity pedestalized jesus. They had to protect themselves from the universal truth that he showed us. He is the only son of God, but they understand it in a way that keeps us completely separated from him. Many of those same people would have murdered him if they were living in the days of Jesus. It is proof that they murder themselves.

    They even go so far to say that the Son of God was at some point not fully human, because they cannot bear the truth that humanity and God is exactly what the Son of God is.

    They're fatherless, they're orphans, they're widows. They are poor, Afflicted and needy. The princes among them fall and say: we are adopted. we, even though we are called the body of Christ, we are not the same as he. They continue to this day to try to make separations between them and God. Their leaders drag them down to Hell because they refuse to stop listening to wickedness. All day long they die like men.

    Is a wild olive tree really fundamentally different from a normal olive tree? The cultivated Olive Tree is supremely blessed because he knows who he is and he Bears much fruit. He came as a thief in the night and stole your branches, but all he wishes to do is show you how compatible with each other you are. You can't accept your own nourishment. The most your blind self can accept is a hybridization of the truth. You mutilate yourself to exalt someone who you think is so infinitely high above you even though he called us Brothers and friends.

    He was maimed more than any man. He bore our sins. He showed us what will happen. Though we are slain, we shall live again. Sinners hated the idea that Jesus was the son of God and they hate the idea that they are the son of God. You guys are messed up.
     
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