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Yahshua is our Messiah's name

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by CherubRam, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    As for the name of God, I have been studying it for more than 20 years.

    Now it is your turn.
    True or false. The Rabbi's changed the Hebrew language?
    True or false. Most all scholars agree that the first part of God's name is Yah?
     
  2. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    What makes you think those things are linked together? All you have done is to repeat your previous comment and added in the later sentence about the destruction of Jerusalem. There is a large void to be filled.
     
  3. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Quote: "in the year of their punishment"

    Sometimes the prophets made prophecies out of context, so it would not be fully understood, until after the fact. Or so it seems to some people that it is out of context.

    In context the festivals are just that, but out of context they are prophecies.


    John 15:2
    He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.


    Jeremiah 11
    16 The Lord called you a thriving olive tree
    with fruit beautiful in form.
    But with the roar of a mighty storm
    he will set it on fire,
    and its branches will be broken.


    Anathoth is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.

    Jeremiah 11
    21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”


    In what year did the people die of a great famine? When were the people of Israel also destroyed?
     
  4. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    That's a half-answer to *one* of my questions. Answer the others first, please.

    I have the answers to your questions written up, ready and waiting for when you finish.
     
  5. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Fail! You have shown no causality between Jeremiah's words and the later fall of Jerusalem, or anything else for that matter. If his comments are as you say then there must be clear evidence of it being directly linked to an event at some point, with more evidence than 'he said 'A' and this might be 'B''. Mere speculation at the moment is all you have shown.
     
  6. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Your idea of what the scripture is saying is certainly different than mine.

    Anathoth is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.


    Jeremiah 11
    21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”

    The war and famine did not take place in the days of Jeremiah.


    Hosea 9:7
    The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired person a maniac.


    Luke 21:22
    For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
     
  7. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    לא, אני לא אענה לך
     
  8. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    !האהאהא
    ?ואתה באמת חושב שמשפט פשוט כזה הוא תשובה
    :) שים את זה בתרגום של גוגל

    ?או תיתתב לי בארמייא
    ?בלישנא דישוע משיהא
    :) .תרגומא דגוגל לא יכיל מסעד לך​
     
  9. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    We know as a matter of fact that (Jo) in Jo/shua is from the word (Yah). Therefore Joshua is Yahshua.
     
  10. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    One day the 'penny will drop' so to speak!
     
  11. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

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    I am curious about this claim. What year did the rabbis change the Hebrew language? When and where did they all get together to do this? How did the communities not notice that the rabbis were missing for weeks? How did all the rabbis agree? How did the people not notice that the rabbis were speaking a new language when they returned? How did the rabbis convince everyone to learn the new language and forget the old one? How did they edit out the old language without anyone noticing it? Why isn’t there any real proof of this massive conspiracy? If they all got together and changed the language, why is Sephardic different from Yemenite and Ashkenazic?
     
  12. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Hebrew mostly changed between 167 BC and 600 AD. If you want to know more, then study Hebrew language history.


    Yah / shua
    Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until after the year 1525,
    when Sir William Tyndale a Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England invented it!

    His name in English is Yahshua. What you have is Greek forms of the name with a modern Hebrew twist. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until after 200 AD.

    In regards to various stages of Hebrew, the vowel change came after the second century AD. The vowel e was officially adopted by the Masoretes in the sixth century AD.



    Concealing the name of God

    Concealing the name of God was not only a custom, it was also made a law.

    The sages quoted, "This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations" (Ex. iii. 15). Here the word "le-'olam" (forever) is written defectively, being without the "waw" for the vowel "o," which renders the reading "le-'allem" (to conceal; Ḳid. 71a).


    Forty years prior to the destruction of the Temple, the priests ceased to pronounce the Name (Yoma39b). From that time the pronunciation of the Name was prohibited. "Whoever pronounces the Name forfeits his portion in the future world" (Sanh. xi. 1).
    30 AD to 70 AD.

    Abba Saul (2d cent.) condemned the profanation of the Tetragrammaton by classing those "that speak the Name according to its letters," with those who have no part in the future world (Sanh. x. 1); and according to 'Ab. Zarah 17b, one of the martyrs of Hadrian's time, Hananiah b. Teradion, was burned at the stake because he so uttered the Name.


    The view that prayer is more effectual if the name of God is pronounced in it as it is written caused the scholars of Kairwan to address a question in the eleventh century to Hai Gaon with reference to the pronunciation of the Shem ha-Meforash, to which he answered that it might not be uttered at all outside the Holy Land (Hai Gaon, "Ṭa'am Zeḳenim," p. 55; see Löw, "Gesammelte Schriften," i. 204).


    Because Hebrews dropped their 'ayins', to keep from saying God's name, hence we have "y'shua." Also spelled Yeshua, for which we have in Greek, "Iēsous" and "Isus." These are corruptions of the names that begin with "Yah."

    Thirteen theophoric names with "Yeho" have corresponding forms where the letters eh have been omitted. There is a theory by Christian Ginsburg that this is due to Hebrew scribes omitting the "h", changing Jeho (יְהוֹ‎) into Jo (יוֹ‎), to make the start of "Yeho-" names not sound like an attempt to pronounce the Divine Name.
    Theophoric Names: Theophoric name - Wikipedia



    Quote: The Imperial Aramaic script of the earlier scrolls in the 3rd century BCE evolved into the Hebrew square script of the later scrolls in the 1st century CE, also known as ketav Ashuri (Assyrian script), still in use today.Mishnaic Hebrew from the 1st to the 3rd or 4th century CE.

    Quote: "Hebrew linguists classify Dead Sea Scroll Hebrew as a set of dialects evolving out of Late Biblical Hebrew and into Mishnaic Hebrew, thus including elements from both but remaining distinct from either."

    Source: Hebrew language - Wikipedia


    Early Aramaic and Hebrew vowels
    The early Aramaic and Hebrew vowel system is reconstructed as a o i u



    Summary
    The following charts summarize the most common reflexes of the Proto-Semitic vowels in the various stages of Hebrew:

    Proto-Semitic: a, i, u.

    Proto-Hebrew: a, o, i, u.

    Secunda: a, o, i, u.

    Tiberian: ɔ, o, i, u.

    Babylonian: ɔ, o, i, u.

    Palestinian: a, o, i, u.

    Samaritan: ( a, ɒ,) u, ( e, i,) (o, u.)



    The vowel “a” is pronounced, “ah.” The “u” is pronounced “ow or uw.” And the Ayin is pronounced “ah.”

    Yahwah: יהוה

    Yashua: ישוע


    Some scholars argue that there are too many vowels in some Hebrew words.
     
  13. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    Here we go again...
     
  14. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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  15. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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  16. Samuel Waters

    Samuel Waters New Member Supporter

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    Kind corrspondents,
    Please allow me to pour oil. I come in peace.
    - The Messiah's Name is a Holy Name. It is unbecoming to handle it sloppily, and it is entirely reasonable for The Almighty Father, in this age, to tap us on the shoulder, and call for a realignment, after so many centuries of gradual distortion.
    - Care with names is exactly what the Scriptures show by example. The Holy Scriptures convey the names of pagan deities and pagan kings with remarkable faithfulness. Holy Names should be handled with even greater care.
    - Instead of hopping from Hebrew-to Greek-to Latin-to Old English-to "Jesus", many have reclaimed a sense of authenticity, by drawing the Messiah's name directrly from The Hebrew.
    - The processes properly goes by the term "Transcription", but it's also known as "Transliteration."
    - While the Scriptures clearly teach Transliteration and Transcription of Names, it clearly shows dialectal variety as well.
    - It is evident that The Hebrew Messiah has the same name as the Ephraimite Commander, commonly known as Joshua.
    - In the Hebrew Scruiptures. There are at least three(3) spellings and thus at least three pronunciations possible for Joshua's Name. Using Linguistic science, such as comparitive methods, Jewish transcriptions into other languages, etc., several more possible pronunciations emerge.
    - THUS ==> We have several pronunciations competing for peoples' attention, when such competition was never Divine Intent.
    - We had dialectal variety in ancient times, and we will have dialectal variety today.
    - If your pronunciation comes from The Hebrew, and is linguistically possible, it has standing before Heaven.
    - If your ministry goes in this direction of authenticity, cooperate with their choices, and quit arguing. Do not condemn others. Urge them also to refrain from condemnation.
    - Love always
     
  17. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your reply.

    Yahshua=Yahshuah
     
  18. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    The problem with 'those who know' is that
    they weren't around before vowel pointings
    either. Nobody knows what Hebrew sounded
    like in the first century AD, much less earlier.
     
  19. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    The key isn't in them teaching anything directly. It's in the
    Torah scrolls where they added the vowel pointings. Change
    the vowels and you change not only the pronunciation, but
    the meaning of words themselves. You can change a lot that
    way in a single generation. In two or three generations, you
    can change everything.
     
  20. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I've been seeing much evidence that scholars build on previous works of other scholars; thereby compounding the errors of their predecessors.
     
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