WWJD Did Jesus Pray to Mary?

[Hammster]

Without Church Tradition, you don't know what books make up the New Testament, and the same Church which handed down those Scriptures also handed down the Liturgy and many hymns.

The canon didn’t come about because of tradition.

 

[disciple Clint]

Mary, the mother of Jesus, is dead. Christians don't communicate with or pray to the dead. Christians need only one Mediator:

"For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2.

If Mary is dead there is absolutely no reason what so ever to be a Christian. If Mary was not able to receive eternal life, there is no hope for anyone.

 

[FenderTL5]

The canon didn’t come about because of tradition.

Nonsense. There is no greater example of Church Tradition than the Holy Scriptures. Those books and letters were written by the Church, for the Church. They were maintained and handed down by the Church. The Scriptures are the centerpiece of Tradition.
To argue otherwise is ignorance of the Church and its history.

 

[Hammster]

Led by the Holy Spirit

How do you know that the Holy Spirit led the church to pray to Mary?

 

[adderbolt]

Our Church believes there is existence after one's earthly passing, as the Apostle Paul said, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Your church hasn't always believed or taught that -- and for good reason -- the Holy Bible is the one true authority -- and not fallible men and their ever-changing traditions. Thanks ...

 

[Hammster]

The Scriptures are clear in their meaning if you think they should be interpreted in some other way it is up to you to provide justification.
God established incense as a part of the sacerdotal system (and therefore as symbolism) in Exodus 30:1–10 when Moses was told to build the altar of incense. The prayers of the saints in Revelation 5:8, especially as represented by incense in the context of temple imagery, should be understood to take the role of incense in the temple, which was to offer up a sweet aroma to God and to symbolize prayer. The prayers of the righteous are pleasing to Him. Psalm 141:2 describes this aspect of prayer perfectly: “May my prayer be set before you like incense; may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice” (Psalm 141:2).

Whom are these prayers of the saints for in Revelation 5:8? Since these prayers are the aggregate of all believers’ prayers through all time, they are about everybody and about everything that is consistent with God’s will. If you pray for somebody’s salvation, that prayer is in the bowl. If you pray for the safety and relief of people after a natural disaster, that prayer is in the bowl. If you pray that God would conform you into the image of Jesus Christ, that prayer is in the bowl. Such prayers are well-pleasing to Him. What are the prayers of the saints in Revelation 5:8? | GotQuestions.org

Prayers are pleasing to God. No doubt. That’s who we are told to pray to.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Our Church believes there is existence after one's earthly passing, as the Apostle Paul said, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

True, but the Saints are not dead but are alive with Christ. Our God is the God of the living and that includes Abraham, John the Baptist, and the Theotokos.

Also true, but you seemingly do not know the difference between intercession/intercessory prayer and the one Mediator.

To be more specific, I'm sure he meant communicating with spirits of the dead. Saul did that with the spirit of Samuel and it didn't go over too well. 1 Samuel 28

 

[prodromos]

How do you know that the Holy Spirit led the church to pray to Mary?

Because God blesses it abundantly.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Because God blesses it abundantly.

I have a lot of respect for Eastern Orthodoxy. So this is one area I wish there was specific scriptural instruction regarding.

 

[disciple Clint]

Prayers are pleasing to God. No doubt. That’s who we are told to pray to.

We agree on that when it applies to worship. I never said we should worship Mary or anyone other than God.

 

[Hammster]

Because God blesses it abundantly.

Ah, pragmatism.

 

[Hammster]

We agree on that when it applies to worship. I never said we should worship Mary or anyone other than God.

That’s exactly what you all have been saying, unless you have a different definition of worship that I’m unaware of.

 

[disciple Clint]

That’s exactly what you all have been saying, unless you have a different definition of worship that I’m unaware of.

No that might be what you expected me to be saying but if you go back and read my posts, you will see what I was truly saying had nothing to do with the worship of Mary.

 

[Hammster]

No that might be what you expected me to be saying but if you go back and read my posts, you will see what I was truly saying had nothing to do with the worship of Mary.

While not specific, these all sound like things one might say when discussing worship of God.

Jesus loved, respected, and honored His mother Mary, it would be appropriate for us to do the same.

So if I understand your logic you think that Jesus did not honor His mother above anyone else, is that correct?

Eastern Orthodox hymns to John

Troparion (Tone 8) [1]
As a soldier of the Lord you were ranked among the choir of apostles.
Together with your brother, O James, you clung wholeheartedly to the Savior.
Armed with the power of the Spirit you preached him to all and were slain by the sword.
Therefore we sing your praises!
Troparion (Tone 3)
You were a chosen apostle of Christ
And the only brother of the beloved Theologian.
Most praised James, ask remission of sins and great mercy
For those who sing hymns to you.
Kontakion (Tone 2)
You heard the voice of God calling you
And turned away from the love of your father.
With your brother you hastened after Christ, O glorious James.
With him, you were counted worthy to behold the Lord's divine Transfiguration!

Each Friday of Lent there is a special service called the Akathist to the Theotokos, which ends in a final hymn to most holy, ever virgin, Mother of God

We venerate and we honor Mary and all of the saints.

 

[prodromos]

Ah, pragmatism.

Call it what you like. It is an ever present reality in the Orthodox Church that God takes pleasure in the love that is shared between all members of His body, whether they are still struggling to finish the race or they have already been crowned with victory. We don't just know that Christ defeated death because the Scriptures tell us so, we experience it through the innumerable miracles God pours out on His Church in response to the prayers of His holy Saints.

 

[disciple Clint]

While not specific, these all sound like things one might say when discussing worship of God.

I am just not seeing what you must be seeing, where do you see anything about worshiping Mary? I see the word Mary several times, I do not see the word worship at all.

 

[Hammster]

Call it what you like. It is an ever present reality in the Orthodox Church that God takes pleasure in the love that is shared between all members of His body, whether they are still struggling to finish the race or they have already been crowned with victory. We don't just know that Christ defeated death because the Scriptures tell us so, we experience it through the innumerable miracles God pours out on His Church in response to the prayers of His holy Saints.

I know He defeated death because scripture says so. I don’t need external experiences to prove that.

 

[Hammster]

I am just not seeing what you must be seeing, where do you see anything about worshiping Mary? I see the word Mary several times, I do not see the word worship at all.

“While not specific”

 

[Ceallaigh]

If Mary is dead there is absolutely no reason what so ever to be a Christian. If Mary was not able to receive eternal life, there is no hope for anyone.

Oh come on now, Mary is physically dead the same as the Apostles. I have eternal life, but unless the rapture happens first, I'm going to drop dead and be buried.

 

[prodromos]

While not specific, these all sound like things one might say when discussing worship of God.

We would suggest you have a pretty low standard for worship.