WWJD Did Jesus Pray to Mary?

[Hammster]

And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
— Acts 6:8

Stephen was without sin, I suppose.

 

[Hammster]

What is the evidence for that statement? There is no basis for that belief.

You keep asking for evidence without providing any. You made the assertion that full of grace means being without sin. That’s an assertion. It’s unsubstantiated.

 

[Fidelibus]

You keep asking for evidence without providing any. You made the assertion that full of grace means being without sin. That’s an assertion. It’s unsubstantiated.

Say's who?

 

[Fidelibus]

And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
— Acts 6:8

Stephen was without sin, I suppose.

You suppose??? Hmm.... So we can only take that as you saying there are exceptions. Thanks!

 

[Hammster]

Say's who?

I say that it’s unsubstantiated.

 

[Hammster]

You suppose??? Hmm.... So we can only take that as you saying there are exceptions. Thanks!

No. You can take that as sarcasm.

 

[Astroqualia]

Well I guess we could totally disregard the need for education in its contribution to knowledge. Frankly I am not going to any doctors or any other professional who says I have read the book on this operation and I am certain that I understand every thing but I never went to college. There is much more to understanding the Bible than just reading it. I can read how a book on chemistry that does not make me a chemist. The reason we have so many people walking around with false beliefs is because they failed to educate themselves or make any effort to understand the true meaning of the Scripture they quote. Even worse they take the word of someone who has even less education than they do just because he calls himself a pastor. Regarding the excuse that the Holy Spirit interprets the passage, if you put 10 people who think that in a room and give them a passage to interpret, you get far more than one interpretation, they cannot all be right. The Holy Spirit can give us revelation specific to our situation but it is not the purpose of the Holy Spirit to fill in for people who refuse to educate themselves or use the resources that are available to them. Frankly I will allow those who study theology, which includes far more than just reading the Bible, all their life give me the benefit of their expertise.

Actually, I notice the very exact opposite, the worst heresies clearly tend to come from those educated folk who were groomed on how to think by whatever version of Christian school they learned from.

The Bible is there for our education. The writings of Jesus and the apostles are all we need. A humble heart and willingness to learn about the Lord are all that is required to understand.

And as far as what you said about 10 different interpretations, that happens because 1. People are false converts and have a false understanding of scripture NOT led by the spirit, 2. People blindly parrot what they've decided they want to believe that they heard elsewhere, which is a huge problem in our world today, or 3. They come from different denominations, that all say they teach the truth, all led by a pastor who learned from said denominations' Bible College, the teachings of, built upon by various historical figures, that all claim to be the truth yet say different things, showing that even historical confessions and figures are not any more accurate than anyone else.

I personally don't really care what other men tell me the Bible says, as all kinds of different men say the Bible says all kinds of different things. I trust in the Lord for me to find out the truth of it, as the Lord knows in my heart I desire to know the truth about everything in this world. Notice I never said I know the truth about everything in this world, not even remotely close. But I do desire to know what is true, and not validate what random things I decide I want to believe, like I have seen many others engage in. I can't believe people cannot critically think about the logic behind that. It blows my mind. An education doesn't equate to objective correctness. College doesn't equal IQ. Nowhere in scripture does it say to trust what other men say about the Bible, not developing your own understanding. No wonder why we live in an apostasy age. The Bible says seek your own salvation with fear and trembling. Not have another man tell you how you must become saved. You'd be messed over if you happened to trust an OSAS or romans road pastor to tell you the truth.

 

[disciple Clint]

Do you understand that Jesus spent thirty plus years interacting with sinners? He even sometimes touched them. *gasp*

That is much different than getting your human flesh and blood from Mary. God could not accept the blood and flesh of a sinner.

 

[disciple Clint]

And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
— Acts 6:8

Stephen was without sin, I suppose.

At that moment he may indeed have been without sin, sins are forgiven, I can be sinless one moment and not sinless the next.

 

[disciple Clint]

You keep asking for evidence without providing any. You made the assertion that full of grace means being without sin. That’s an assertion. It’s unsubstantiated.

you are making statements but not providing any evidence and trying to change the focus to me. Seriously?

 

[disciple Clint]

Actually, I notice the very exact opposite, the worst heresies clearly tend to come from those educated folk who were groomed on how to think by whatever version of Christian school they learned from.

The Bible is there for our education. The writings of Jesus and the apostles are all we need. A humble heart and willingness to learn about the Lord are all that is required to understand.

And as far as what you said about 10 different interpretations, that happens because 1. People are false converts and have a false understanding of scripture NOT led by the spirit, 2. People blindly parrot what they've decided they want to believe that they heard elsewhere, which is a huge problem in our world today, or 3. They come from different denominations, that all say they teach the truth, all led by a pastor who learned from said denominations' Bible College, the teachings of, built upon by various historical figures, that all claim to be the truth yet say different things, showing that even historical confessions and figures are not any more accurate than anyone else.

I personally don't really care what other men tell me the Bible says, as all kinds of different men say the Bible says all kinds of different things. I trust in the Lord for me to find out the truth of it, as the Lord knows in my heart I desire to know the truth about everything in this world. Notice I never said I know the truth about everything in this world, not even remotely close. But I do desire to know what is true, and not validate what random things I decide I want to believe, like I have seen many others engage in. I can't believe people cannot critically think about the logic behind that. It blows my mind. An education doesn't equate to objective correctness. College doesn't equal IQ. Nowhere in scripture does it say to trust what other men say about the Bible, not developing your own understanding. No wonder why we live in an apostasy age. The Bible says seek your own salvation with fear and trembling. Not have another man tell you how you must become saved. You'd be messed over if you happened to trust an OSAS or romans road pastor to tell you the truth.

But I do desire to know what is true, and not validate what random things I decide I want to believe

And that is exactly why using commentaries and other resource materials written by and reviewed by scholars is valuable. when we lean on our own understanding we are not using the resources that God provided for us and we are certainly going to be wrong about what God is trying to communicate to us.

 

[Fidelibus]

I say that it’s unsubstantiated.

You say it's unsubstantiated??? Where do you get the authority to say such a thing? Can't wait to see this answer!

 

[Fidelibus]

You keep asking for evidence without providing any. You made the assertion that full of grace means being without sin. That’s an assertion. It’s unsubstantiated.

An assertion and unsubstantiated?? By who's or what authority do you make this claim? Yours?? If so, you will have to do better than that!!

 

[Fidelibus]

If she wasn’t a sinner, she wouldn’t need grace.

Where does it say this in the bible? Chapter and verse in verbatim please.

 

[Hammster]

That is much different than getting your human flesh and blood from Mary. God could not accept the blood and flesh of a sinner.

Where do you find that info?

 

[Hammster]

you are making statements but not providing any evidence and trying to change the focus to me. Seriously?

No, I’m trying to focus on your claims, which you aren’t supporting.

 

[Astroqualia]

And that is exactly why using commentaries and other resource materials written by and reviewed by scholars is valuable. when we lean on our own understanding we are not using the resources that God provided for us and we are certainly going to be wrong about what God is trying to communicate to us.

God provided the Bible for us. What God did not provide, is us to pick a random interpretation of scripture some historical men decided was true. One is divinely inspired, the other is not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You must have missed the entire point of my post.
Pray in our modern era, that I grew up learning, does not simply mean "ask". Maybe 1000 years ago it did, but we all grew up knowing prayer essentially meant "making a request to a deity" or something similar. It doesn't make sense to use an ancient apostasy groups' definition of pray, in order to win a debate.

The point stands, there is no point in praying to anyone other than the mediator between us and the Father, whom is Jesus.

I haven't used "an ancient apostasy groups'" definition. I've provided the historical-linguistic context of what "prayer" to the saints means among our Catholic and Orthodox brethren's use.

Are you trying to say that Catholic and Orthodox Christians are apostate?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

So your wish is for me to learn what men I have never met and do not know the moral caliber of, tell me what the Bible says, instead of rightly dividing the Word as scripture commands each of its individual readers to do for themselves? Why do folks tend to want to be told what the Bible says by someone else, as opposed to allowing the spirit to lead them into all truth, as scripture says is an option to partake in?

Why would I take a Russian roulette chance at believing some random scholars commentary? Why does physical time spent reading the Bible mean that person is right? Can I just read the Bible for 30 years and claim to be an unquestionable expert? You do realize that there are hundreds of different opinions by historical men about what scripture means, right? How do you know which one you hold to is true? Because that's the one you chose you want to believe? I would argue, that isn't how to objectively find the truth about anything. I don't buy into appeal to authority arguments. Next it will be said that people with college degrees are smarter than those without.

What makes you the authority on what the Bible says?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Astroqualia]

What makes you the authority on what the Bible says?

-CryptoLutheran

I never claimed to be an authority of any kind. There is simply a more and less correct way of doing things to arrive at a good conclusion. Eenie-meenie-minie-moe picking a historical figure to believe their theology is not the correct way to do things, according to the Bible. To seek one's own salvation with fear and trembling is what the Bible says to do.