Wrath upon this people

shilohsfoal

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You didn't answer my question, so I'll as again:

Luke 21:20-21 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea escape/flee (pheugó 5343)

Who are those that are to "stay awake" and "pray that you may have the strength" to escape all these things and stand before Jesus? The saved or the unsaved?

Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape/flee (pheugó 5343) all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”




Now, I will address your argument, but first I want to make sure I understand you. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

your argument appears to be:

If the resurrection occurs as the 2nd coming of Christ, and the 2nding coming of Christ is his feet standing on the mount of olives, then those fleeing cannot be those who belong to Christ.

To answer your question,those who are to stay awake and escape thosr things that come upon the earth are those who are held blameless before Christ .Those who did not worship the beast or his image and did not recieve the mark of the beast.
Those who are blameless will be saved.Jesus is not going to expect a crippled old woman to save herself if she cant walk..
Its hard to believe you think you have tobe OJ Simpson in order tobe saved.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Okay now you're attempting to put words in my mouth.

Get this. The resurrection which takes place after tribulation at the coming of Christ IS the first resurrection. Nothing changes that.

The fact that two witnesses who are practically reincarnations of Moses and Elijah came on a mission from God, died and resurrected at the end of their mission doesn't make that the first resurrection. Moses and Elijah already lived their lives. They're only on earth sent by God on a mission. Elijah came earlier as John the Baptist to clear the way for Jesus. He's coming again with Moses in the first half of tribulation. Study your scriptures please, I can't explain everything.

Scriptures say they resurrected three and half days after they died. If that was the first resurrection then that means we should know the day Jesus comes because the first resurrection occurs on the day Jesus comes.

So what you're saying is Jesus comes on the day the two witnesses resurrected. And Jesus Himself says "no one knows the day nor the hour." Aren't you already contradicting yourself?.

You say the two witnesses are resurected three and a half years befote the first resurection.
Thats your story,you tell it.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Not one single verse you have given says the saved shall flee .If the Lord is fighting for them they wouldnt need to flee.Everyone would flee from them as it is written.
If you read what I provided you would see your statement was false.

God bless you brother
 
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Messenger 3k

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You say the two witnesses are resurected three and a half years befote the first resurection.
Thats your story,you tell it.

Yes, I just told you but you seem to not be paying attention.

You're saying simply because some persons resurrected at some point in time, then that has to be the first resurrection.

Jesus resurrected Lazarus at some point in history. Was that the first resurrection?

Hey, here's another one. God raised the son of the Shunammite woman from the dead through Elisha.

Maybe this was the first resurrection. Please tell me.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Yes, I just told you but you seem to not be paying attention.

You're saying simply because some persons resurrected at some point in time, then that has to be the first resurrection.

Jesus resurrected Lazarus at some point in history. Was that the first resurrection?

Hey, here's another one. God raised the son of the Shunammite woman from the dead through Elisha.

Maybe this was the first resurrection. Please tell me.
Im sorry,Your story just doesnt pan,out with scripture.
According to scripture,the gentiles occupy Jerusalem for 42 months when the beast (more gentiles) kills the previous gentiles and tskes Jerusalem and ocvupies Jerusalem foranother 42 months.

So now yoy have two occupations by two seperate groups of gentiles,Two separate earthquakes at the time of two seperate resurrections.

Its like youve taken everything and multiplied it by two .

Revelation 11:2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months.

So now you have gentiles occupying Jerusalem for 84 months.
 
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Messenger 3k

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Im sorry,Your story just doesnt pan,out with scripture.
According to scripture,the gentiles occupy Jerusalem for 42 months when the beast (more gentiles) kills the previous gentiles and tskes Jerusalem and ocvupies Jerusalem foranother 42 months.

So now yoy have two occupations by two seperate groups of gentiles,Two separate earthquakes at the time of two seperate resurrections.

Its like youve taken everything and multiplied it by two .

Revelation 11:2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months.

So now you have gentiles occupying Jerusalem for 84 months.

What?!

What are you talking about?

My explanation is simple, why are you complicating things?

The two witnesses come at the beginning of the seven years tribulation. They prophesy for the first three and half years. Few months to the middle of tribulation, Israel is invaded. At the middle of tribulation the two witnesses have finished their testimony and are killed.

They resurrect three and half days later during which an earthquake occurs helping the Jewish remnant escape invaded Israel to the wilderness wherein they'll be kept safe for the next three and half years.

Israel remains invaded and Jerusalem remains captured for the remaining three and half years.

Then Jesus comes with an even greater earthquake. The dead christians resurrect into their glorious bodies. The living christians are transformed into their glorious bodies. All are raptured to meet Jesus in the air.

How does that not align with scriptures?
 
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shilohsfoal

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What?!

What are you talking about?

My explanation is simple, why are you complicating things?

The two witnesses come at the beginning of the seven years tribulation. They prophesy for the first three and half years. Few months to the middle of tribulation, Israel is invaded. At the middle of tribulation the two witnesses have finished their testimony and are killed.

They resurrect three and half days later during which an earthquake occurs helping the Jewish remnant escape invaded Israel to the wilderness wherein they'll be kept safe for the next three and half years.

Israel remains invaded and Jerusalem remains captured for the remaining three and half years.

Then Jesus comes with an even greater earthquake. The dead christians resurrect into their glorious bodies. The living christians are transformed into their glorious bodies. All are raptured to meet Jesus in the air.

How does that not align with scriptures?

So who are the first gentiles to occupy jerusalem in the first three and one half years recorded in tevelation 11:2 ?

Revelation 11:2 KJV: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Then who are the gentiles you claim to occupy Jerusalem the second three and one half years?

Revelation 11:7 KJV: And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

You are claiming this beast occupys Jerusalem 42 months are you not?
 
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Messenger 3k

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So who are the first gentiles to occupy jerusalem in the first three and one half years recorded in tevelation 11:2 ?

Revelation 11:2 KJV: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Then who are the gentiles you claim to occupy Jerusalem the second three and one half years?

Revelation 11:7 KJV: And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

You are claiming this beast occupys Jerusalem 42 months are you not?

Where does it say in Revelation 11:2 that the 42 months was the first three and half years?
 
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shilohsfoal

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Where does it say in Revelation 11:2 that the 42 months was the first three and half years?

Its before they are killed by the beast.

Revelation 11:2 KJV: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 11:3 KJV: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 KJV: These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Revelation 11:5 KJV: And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Revelation 11:6 KJV: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 11:7 KJV: And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

These two witnesses are gentiles and God has already given them power to shut up heaven so that it does not rain.They also already can have fire come out of thier mouths to devour thier enemies.

None of this is new.This technology has been around for some time now.But the time that they tread Jerisalem,under foot has not began yet.It soon will though.
 
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Messenger 3k

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Sheesh.

Okay, at this point I give up.

God bless you brother.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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These two witnesses are gentiles and God has already given them power to shut up heaven so that it does not rain.They also already can have fire come out of thier mouths to devour thier enemies.
None of this is new.This technology has been around for some time now.But the time that they tread Jerisalem,under foot has not began yet.It soon will though.
Gives new meaning to fighting fire with fire.......

Rev 11:5
And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.

Rev 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions;
and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

fire-breathing-filmed.gif
 
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shilohsfoal

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Gives new meaning to fighting fire with fire.......

Rev 11:5
And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.

Rev 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions;
and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

View attachment 252596

Fire coming out of the mouth is a millitary comand to destroy your enemies.And im not sure if your aware,the US military can shut up the heavens so it doesnt rain.
Its called cloud seeding and is considerd economical warfare.
Its supposed to be illegal but its easy to get away with.
 
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claninja

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To answer your question,those who are to stay awake and escape thosr things that come upon the earth are those who are held blameless before Christ

Good, we agree that those who stay awake and escape are those in Christ.

Why would you flee if you can not be killed by anything?

We should probably attempt to match this up with the olivet discourse, IF that is what Zechariah 14 is referring to. Zechariah has the "you" fleeing prior to the Lord coming with his holy ones.

Zechariah 14:5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

The olivet discourse has the "you" fleeing prior to the coming of the Lord and his angels
Matthew 24:15-16 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’b At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.c And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So I would argue that those that flee are not yet immortal, but are those Jesus instructed to flee Jerusalem prior to its destruction and tribulation, prior to the parousia of Christ.

 
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shilohsfoal

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Good, we agree that those who stay awake and escape are those in Christ.



We should probably attempt to match this up with the olivet discourse, IF that is what Zechariah 14 is referring to. Zechariah has the "you" fleeing prior to the Lord coming with his holy ones.

Zechariah 14:5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

The olivet discourse has the "you" fleeing prior to the coming of the Lord and his angels
Matthew 24:15-16 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’b At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.c And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So I would argue that those that flee are not yet immortal, but are those Jesus instructed to flee Jerusalem prior to its destruction and tribulation, prior to the parousia of Christ.

Those that flee are fleeing to the mountains to hide from,the Lamb who is standing on mt olivet.

Zechariah 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.
Zechariah 14:5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

They flee to the mountains to hide in he caves.

Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
 
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keras

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Gotta love a good concordance that does both phrase and words searches.

Verses where "wrath and people" are shown in the same verse from 3 different bible versions.......

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon


Luk 21:23
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [Matthew 24:19]
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. [Revelation 11:18]


Rom 1:18
The wrath
of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Revelation 11:18 "2nd Woe passed, dead judged, reward the Saints"

Rev 11:18
The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. [Luke 21:23]
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small— and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
========================
Verses in the OT used:

Exo 32:11
Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said:
“LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Exo 32:12
“Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth'?
Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people.
Lev 10:6
And Moses said to Aaron, and to Eleazar and Ithamar, his sons, “Do not uncover your heads nor tear your clothes, lest you die, and wrath come upon all the people.
But let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD has kindled.
Num 11:33
But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was aroused against the people, and the LORD struck the people with a very great plague.
2Ki 22:13
“Go, inquire of the LORD for me, for the people and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that has been found; for great is the wrath of the LORD that is aroused against us, because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us.”
2Ch 19:10
In every case that comes before you from your people who live in the cities—whether bloodshed or other concerns of the law, commands, decrees or regulations—you are to warn them not to sin against the LORD; otherwise his wrath will come on you and your people. Do this, and you will not sin.
2Ch 36:16
But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets,
until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.
Ezr 5:12
“But because our fathers provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Chaldean,
who destroyed this temple and carried the people away to Babylon.
Psa 78:62
He also delivered His people to the sword,
And [fn]was filled with wrath at His inheritance.
Psa 106:40
Therefore the wrath of the LORD was kindled against His people,
So that He abhorred His own inheritance.
Isa 9:19
Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts The land is burned up,
And the people shall be as fuel for the fire; No man shall spare his brother.
Isa 10:6
I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath
I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey,
And to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 14:6
He who struck the people in wrath
with a continual stroke,
He who ruled the nations in anger, Is persecuted and no one hinders.
Isa 26:20
Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by.
Isa 51:
17 Awake, awake! Rise up, Jerusalem, you who have drunk from the hand of the LORD the cup of his wrath, you who have drained to its dregs the goblet that makes people stagger.
22 This is what your Sovereign LORD says, your God, who defends his people: “See, I have taken out of your hand the cup that made you stagger; from that cup, the goblet of my wrath, you will never drink again.
Jer 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you people of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
or my wrath will flare up and burn like fire because of the evil you have done— burn with no one to quench it.
Jer 33:5
in the fight with the Babylonians: ‘They will be filled with the dead bodies of the people I will slay in my anger and wrath.
I will hide my face from this city because of all its wickedness.
Jer 36:7
“Perhaps their supplication will come before the LORD, and everyone will turn from his evil way,
for great is the anger and the wrath that the LORD has pronounced against this people.
Eze 9:8
As they were striking the people and I alone was left, I fell on my face and cried out [fn]saying,
“Alas, Lord [GOD! Are You destroying the whole remnant of Israel [fn]by pouring out Your wrath on Jerusalem?”
Eze 14:19

“Or if I send a plague into that land and pour out my wrath on it through bloodshed,
killing its people and their animals,
Eze 20:13
“ ‘Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws—by which the person who obeys them will live—and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths.
So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and destroy them in the wilderness.
Eze 25:14
“I will lay My vengeance on Edom by the hand of My people Israel.
Therefore, they will act in Edom according to My anger and according to My wrath; thus they will know My vengeance,” declares the Lord GOD.
Dan 9:16
“O Lord, in accordance with all Your righteous acts, let now Your anger and Your wrath turn away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain;
for because of our sins and the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people have become a reproach to all those around us.
Mal 1:4
Edom may say, “Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.” But this is what the LORD Almighty says:
“They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the LORD.
 
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shilohsfoal

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This does not say when they flee, they hide



This does not say they flee

One says they flee as the Lamb stands on the mt of olives and there is a valley created.It says they shall flee by that valley.
According to the gospel they flee to the mountains(let him,who have an ear hear).
Revelation says they hide in the caves in the mountains from the Lamb and his wrath.
 
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claninja

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One says they flee as the Lamb stands on the mt of olives and there is a valley created.It says they shall flee by that valley.
According to the gospel they flee to the mountains(let him,who have an ear hear).
Revelation says they hide in the caves in the mountains from the Lamb and his wrath.

Who flees?

Jesus tells the disciples to keep watch and pray they can escape TO stand before the son of man, not hide in the caves.
Luke 21:36 So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man
 
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shilohsfoal

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Who flees?

Jesus tells the disciples to keep watch and pray they can escape TO stand before the son of man, not hide in the caves.
Luke 21:36 So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man

Jesus's discples dont have to flee.They dont have to go anywhere.

The coming of Christ is as it was in the days of Noah.While Noah was preparing for the flood,thr multitude did thier everyday deeds,untill the dsy Noah entetd the ark and closed the door.
The multitude was washed away and Noah remained on the earth to a ripe old age.
So,shall it be in the end .Two,will be in,the field.One will be taken away as the multitude and one will be left as Noah was left.

Those who belong to Christ dont flee.The mutitude does.They have a reason too.
 
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