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Hmm...The fact is that there has been no consensus at all.
The majority have sided with Universalism? (I haven't read the entire topic)Yes.
Universalism has biblical and historic support. Four of the six theological schools in the first five or six centuries of Christianity were Universalist. Unfortunately, the one school (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. They were the ones who gave us our biased Bible.... The universalist seems to put the blame on God if all people are not saved, so to avoid blaming God they come up with a way for everyone to be saved. ...
I am reminded that we are not to indulge quarrels over words, it acts like gangrene in the body of Christ - and only ruins those who listen.What does that really mean if we are reading a mistranslation? Is it really God's word? Or is it mans word? Does that make it true, or false?
Well, better shut down the forum then. - lolI am reminded that we are not to indulge quarrels over words, it acts like gangrene in the body of Christ - and only ruins those who listen.
Answer me this:Universalism has biblical and historic support. Four of the six theological schools in the first five or six centuries of Christianity were Universalist. Unfortunately, the one school (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. They were the ones who gave us our biased Bible.
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96
German theologian- Philip Schaff writes :
"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
Anyone that doesn't love God hasn't met him yet. End of story.Answer me this:
How can you take a selfish carnal person and make them, having their own autonomous free will, choose to be sacrificially unselfish (have Godly type Love) so they are "happy" in heaven?
You can say: “Live in hell or choose to be unselfish in heaven”, but is that really their autonomous free will choice and is that really unselfish Love so they are happy in heaven?
As far as different schools of thought, by the fifth and sixth century lots of radical wrong ideas were floating around. I would like to know how you address scriptures referencing judgement?
We hear that all the time. You push your half dozen references at us but ignore the two dozen we provide.I would like to know how you address scriptures referencing judgement?
So bad translation is a good reason to disregard clear instructions in the bible?Well, better shut down the forum then. - lol
So you are claiming that a bad translation should be accepted as the word of God just to keep the peace? That's nuts!
Saint Steven said: ↑
What does that really mean if we are reading a mistranslation? Is it really God's word? Or is it mans word? Does that make it true, or false?
No, Michael.So bad translation is a good reason to disregard clear instructions in the bible?
Perhaps you meant something different than what I gathered from your post @Michael CollumNo, Michael.
If it's a bad translation you should follow it to the letter. - lol
I can't believe you asked me that. Seriously?
I don't think most Christians would recognize God if they met him on the street. We seem to have the complete wrong idea about who he is and what he is about.
A simple yes or no answer to start your response would be great, then the rationale behind why you have picked either yes or no
No, Michael.
If it's a bad translation you should follow it to the letter. - lol
I can't believe you asked me that. Seriously?
Perhaps you meant something different than what I gathered from your post @Michael Collum
But if a translation is bad, then the intent of the original author has been missed. And while we may call any translation of the Bible "scripture", a bad translation misses the mark.
I suppose what you probably meant to ask (speaking of bad translations) was whether THE CLAIM of a "bad translation" gave us permission "to disregard clear instructions in the bible". Which is a good question and probably worth its own topic.
Michael Collum said: ↑
So bad translation is a good reason to disregard clear instructions in the bible?
There are lots of kinds of "love".Anyone that doesn't love God hasn't met him yet. End of story.
This thread is not a discussion of “hell” and if there is annihilation at some point. We are talking about everyone going to heaven.We hear that all the time. You push your half dozen references at us but ignore the two dozen we provide.
History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution: the Creeds the Fathers
Also, as Clement of Alexandria pointed out, as the Greek had two words for 'punishment', the first retributive (timoria), the second corrective (kolasin), that the NT never uses the first. And correction has an object, its telos, to set straight. This would be incongruous with a translation of aionion as 'eternal' in Mt 25:46.
That sounds familiar...Certain religious types think they're doing God a favor by killing those who don't do what God wants, even if it's God they must kill.
Well said. A "warped conception of justice." Perfect.They'd probably kill him. At any rate, certain religious types are fond of killing God incarnate. I think it has to do with a warped conception of justice. Justice for them is not so much about that which leads to flourishing life, but that which leads to the punishment of sinners. Certain religious types think they're doing God a favor by killing those who don't do what God wants, even if it's God they must kill.
I mean meeting God in the afterlife where there is no room to doubt who it is.There are lots of kinds of "love".
Jesus Christ was God on earth (seeing Christ was to see God), so did everyone Love Christ?
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