Would you feel obligated to give offering under these circumstances?

[justme6272]

Let's say that you attend a mid-week Bible study each week at a church whose majority of members have liberal morals and beliefs that are off the chart, and for this reason, it's the LAST church in town you'd ever want to join. Would you feel a sense of obligation to donate a limited amount of offering money, if for no other reason than to help pay for your share of utilities and maintenance (i.e. janitorial, A/C in summer, heat in winter) that your physical body occupies and benefits from when you show up? (i.e. a few square feet of air and one or two toilet flushings each week). I pay for the coffee, cream, sugar, cups, filters, stirrers, etc. whether or not others donate to cover it, and I show up early to fix it, so I am contributing something in that regard.

The part of me that says 'no,' says no because they are going to add that money to the general budget to pay for all kinds of other stuff I don't support and I have no desire to further such causes. The part of me that says 'yes,' thinks that as long as I attend the weekly 90 minute class for whatever reason, (i.e. coffee and socialize with friendly people, and maybe learn something that's not controversial), I should give that minimal amount for maintenance and utilities, just based on principal. In other words, if I'm not willing to give something, I should stop going there at all(?)
What would you do?

P.S. - I'm not really interested in opinions of church staff, who are biased. Everyone else, feel free to chime in and I will use the input of others in making my decision. Thanks.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Listen to the Shepherd, and to the Father daily in prayer , frequently.

DO as the Father says to do. Simple.

 

[justme6272]

Listen to the Shepherd, and to the Father daily in prayer , frequently.

DO as the Father says to do. Simple.

He's leaving it up to me. Thanks for the input.

 

[Tempura]

If you use it, pay for it. Especially if other people there are paying too, you'll be paying your share which is a good, decent thing to do.

Not exactly the same thing, but "Render unto Caesar" comes to mind, as well as the part with temple taxes.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He's leaving it up to me. Thanks for the input.

Why would He do that ?

 

[ml5363]

No church is perfect .. disagreeing on some things are okay...but you said they are off the chart left..which makes me say why are you still there...

However, if you feel you are being fed spiritual ly and being encourage d to spread the gospel be more Christ like, than by all means give them support...

I attend a Mon Bible study with ladies from a church that does not feed me spiritually...their church. But have a good time at the study .So I continue to go and support them...

 

[justme6272]

Why would He do that ?

Because he's God. He can do what he wants.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Because he's God. He can do what he wants.

He was more clear in His Word, and to His disciples .
He never told them "just do what you want", did He ? (not OT, nor NT)

 

[justme6272]

No church is perfect .. disagreeing on some things are okay...but you said they are off the chart left..which makes me say why are you still there...

However, if you feel you are being fed spiritual ly and being encourage d to spread the gospel be more Christ like, than by all means give them support...

I attend a Mon Bible study with ladies from a church that does not feed me spiritually...their church. But have a good time at the study .So I continue to go and support them...

The 'off the chart left' refers more to the policies and politics of the church, not what's being taught in the class I attend.

Being fed spiritually? Kinda, but frankly, the time I spend there as it relates to learning could be better served listening to sermons online, at home. Problem is, it's at home, which means isolated. No social benefit.

Encouraged to spread the gospel to be more Christ like? Liberal churches don't even know what they should be spreading in their own meetings, much less outside the church.

You support your ladies class how? With your presence? Finances?

 

[justme6272]

He was more clear in His Word, and to His disciples .
He never told them "just do what you want", did He ? (not OT, nor NT)

He didn't try or need to tell everyone every move to make. The Bible is filled with characters who took action without a direct command from God to undertake that specific action.

 

[ml5363]

The 'off the chart left' refers more to the policies and politics of the church, not what's being taught in the class I attend.

Being fed spiritually? Kinda, but frankly, the time I spend there could be better serve listening to sermons online, at home. Problem is, it's at home, which means isolated. No social benefit.

Encouraged to spread the gospel to be more Christ like? Liberal churches don't even know what they should be spreading in their own meetings, much less outside the church.

You support your ladies class how? With your presence? Finances?

Mainly presence and helping with food if we have dinner there...some of the studies we buy a book.. so that supports a mission in larger city near me...some of the things they do I agree with, but their sermons are not enough meat for me...so I stick with mine...but is good to be in a group of just ladies and all are on same ground per session...if that makes since

 

[miamited]

Let's say that you attend a mid-week Bible study each week at a church whose majority of members have liberal morals and beliefs that are off the chart, and for this reason, it's the LAST church in town you'd ever want to join. Would you feel a sense of obligation to donate a limited amount of offering money, if for no other reason than to help pay for your share of utilities and maintenance (i.e. janitorial, A/C in summer, heat in winter) that your physical body occupies and benefits from when you show up? (i.e. a few square feet of air and one or two toilet flushings each week). I pay for the coffee, cream, sugar, cups, filters, stirrers, etc. whether or not others donate to cover it, and I show up early to fix it, so I am contributing something in that regard.

The part of me that says 'no,' says no because they are going to add that money to the general budget to pay for all kinds of other stuff I don't support and I have no desire to further such causes. The part of me that says 'yes,' thinks that as long as I attend the weekly 90 minute class for whatever reason, (i.e. coffee and socialize with friendly people, and maybe learn something that's not controversial), I should give that minimal amount for maintenance and utilities, just based on principal. In other words, if I'm not willing to give something, I should stop going there at all(?)
What would you do?

P.S. - I'm not really interested in opinions of church staff, who are biased. Everyone else, feel free to chime in and I will use the input of others in making my decision. Thanks.

Hi justme,

Well the baptist fellowships that I've been involved with have generally taken the position that the support of the fellowship through tithes and offerings is only expected from members. If a visitor wants to throw a bit in the plate as it goes around because they know that what they're really giving to is the work of God within any fellowship, that's fine. But it isn't expected. and as far as I know, never asked for. Secondly, if you're throwing in your few alms out of some feeling of guilt that you should support the financial needs of the fellowship, I'm not even sure that God honors such a gift. So, if you can't give cheerfully, I'd say just keep your money in your pocket. Finally, it sounds like you're not much in agreement with a lot of what this fellowship teaches. If it is biblical, then that's on you. If, however, it isn't biblical but merely some new age teaching of love and everybody's going to get to heaven, then find a biblically sound fellowship.

However, one caveat, you describe this as merely a mid week bible study. I've been involved in the Community Bible Study Orgaization and they take up a one or two dollar class collection. Usually they only take up a collection to pay for cups and coffee and other incidentals of the bible study group like lesson plans and workbooks and possibly a small rent to the home fellowship building in which the meetings are held. If that's the case, I'd give the one or two dollars that they ask for. It's just the polite thing to do in such a circumstance and you aren't really supporting a fellowship with a bunch of liberal beliefs. You're simply throwing in a bit to pay for the coffee and cookies and cups, etc.

However, if the core tenets of this group are unbiblical in their 'liberal' position, then I'd quit the group. Why would you sit and listen to a bunch of stuff you don't even agree with just to have friends? Are you honestly that lonely? There are plenty of fellowships that offer mid week or Sunday evening study groups for which no one has to be member of the fellowship to attend. I once saw a sign outside a fellowship announcing an upcoming bible study on the book of Revelations. I'm always fascinated by other understandings of the book and so I showed up to attend the bible study group. It lasted for about 9 weeks and everyone accepted me with open arms. Yes, there was always coffee and some store bought cookies on hand and they passed around a Styrofoam cup for 'donations' towards those expenses. I gladly gave.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[whereloveandmercymeet]

If you feel like giving, but don’t want to give money as it might be used for something against your views you could see if they have certain funds that are ringfenced and align with you, and donate specifically to them. Or donate ‘things’ that are needed, like tea and coffee sundries or books that are used or something.

 

[A_Thinker]

Let's say that you attend a mid-week Bible study each week at a church whose majority of members have liberal morals and beliefs that are off the chart, and for this reason, it's the LAST church in town you'd ever want to join. Would you feel a sense of obligation to donate a limited amount of offering money, if for no other reason than to help pay for your share of utilities and maintenance (i.e. janitorial, A/C in summer, heat in winter) that your physical body occupies and benefits from when you show up? (i.e. a few square feet of air and one or two toilet flushings each week). I pay for the coffee, cream, sugar, cups, filters, stirrers, etc. whether or not others donate to cover it, and I show up early to fix it, so I am contributing something in that regard.

The part of me that says 'no,' says no because they are going to add that money to the general budget to pay for all kinds of other stuff I don't support and I have no desire to further such causes. The part of me that says 'yes,' thinks that as long as I attend the weekly 90 minute class for whatever reason, (i.e. coffee and socialize with friendly people, and maybe learn something that's not controversial), I should give that minimal amount for maintenance and utilities, just based on principal. In other words, if I'm not willing to give something, I should stop going there at all(?)
What would you do?

P.S. - I'm not really interested in opinions of church staff, who are biased. Everyone else, feel free to chime in and I will use the input of others in making my decision. Thanks.

Unless you are contemplating significant gifts, it's likely that whatever you give will not be enough to even cover the expenses of the Bible Study ministry you are personally benefiting from.

The Bible Study has a purpose ... it enlightens its participants with the word of God, ... and gives opportunity for fellowship for its attendees. It is a clear example of God's work in the church.

Remember when Josiah found the word of God in the Temple? It was used as the basis for a revival in the kingdom, which had gone badly off God's track.

I would support this ministry ...

 

[AvgJoe]

Let's say that you attend a mid-week Bible study each week at a church whose majority of members have liberal morals and beliefs that are off the chart, and for this reason, it's the LAST church in town you'd ever want to join. Would you feel a sense of obligation to donate a limited amount of offering money, if for no other reason than to help pay for your share of utilities and maintenance (i.e. janitorial, A/C in summer, heat in winter) that your physical body occupies and benefits from when you show up? (i.e. a few square feet of air and one or two toilet flushings each week). I pay for the coffee, cream, sugar, cups, filters, stirrers, etc. whether or not others donate to cover it, and I show up early to fix it, so I am contributing something in that regard.

The part of me that says 'no,' says no because they are going to add that money to the general budget to pay for all kinds of other stuff I don't support and I have no desire to further such causes. The part of me that says 'yes,' thinks that as long as I attend the weekly 90 minute class for whatever reason, (i.e. coffee and socialize with friendly people, and maybe learn something that's not controversial), I should give that minimal amount for maintenance and utilities, just based on principal. In other words, if I'm not willing to give something, I should stop going there at all(?)
What would you do?

P.S. - I'm not really interested in opinions of church staff, who are biased. Everyone else, feel free to chime in and I will use the input of others in making my decision. Thanks.

Personally, I wouldn't be attending a church, such as this one.

 

[ValleyGal]

If a church has a special project that requires funds over and above their normal budget, then it's usually earmarked in the offering plate. Otherwise, most churches have a budget that they stick with...much like a family budget, where all the money is pooled, then distributed according to the bills that come in and payments that need to be made. None of it is specifically set aside, as in "I just made $10, so I will put it in the envelope marked for school lunches (or in your case, furthering a liberal agenda)."

If you donate to the church, it will likely be added to the general fund, which covers operating costs and their "tithe" as in donation to local or foreign missions, outreach programs, etc. Is that what you mean by "all kinds of other stuff [ I ] don't support"?

It seems to me you feel that money you donate will end up going to push a political agenda you disagree with. Rather than jump to that conclusion, why not look at their budget reports and become informed about where the money actually goes. You're making all kinds of unjustified judgements with this kind of statement: "Liberal churches don't even know what they should be spreading in their own meetings, much less outside the church." Seriously, with this kind of contempt for that church, why even bother going to a mid-week meeting? Why not find a more legalistic and/or conservative church that would better suit you?

 

[Sketcher]

I wouldn't, but why do you go?

 

[justme6272]

However, if the core tenets of this group are unbiblical in their 'liberal' position, then I'd quit the group. Why would you sit and listen to a bunch of stuff you don't even agree with just to have friends?

The 'off the chart left' refers more to the policies and politics of the church, not what's being taught in the class I attend. So far, I've been able to separate them as if they're two different entities/fellowships. But you're right, I wouldn't sit there and listen to a BUNCH of stuff I didn't agree with, but I've never been in any group where I agree with everything said ever since I started reading the Bible for my own.

Part of what's liberal is when it's time for members to vote on things. It's like a grassroots political organization in that there are 'members' officially on the rolls who only show up to vote on things so that they can further their agenda into every aspect of society, including the churches who let them get away with it. Then you won't ever see them again until it's time for another vote. It wouldn't surprise me of some of them are members of multiple churches at the same time. This is a church where literally anyone can join and they don't ask questions. It's not the same church it used to be. It's a very old church and change for the worse has been very gradual over the years.

 

[justme6272]

I wouldn't, but why do you go?

To get out of the house, and most of the people are nice except for one person. It's not a long drive for me, so it's fairly convenient. And there's a chance I might learn something when a teacher prepares a lesson with something in it that I wouldn't have come across otherwise.

 

[justme6272]

Seriously, with this kind of contempt for that church, why even bother going to a mid-week meeting? Why not find a more legalistic and/or conservative church that would better suit you?

I never said I had contempt. I just disagree with much of what they do. You don't have to tell me how budgets work. I go cause the time and location is convenient for me and the people are nice and I might learn something that I wouldn't have learned if I didn't go.