Would you consider a married, but living apart?

[ThisIsMe123]

Verse?

Does a verse need to exist for it to be permitted (or not)?

 

[ThisIsMe123]

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[Aussie Pete]

Verse?

"Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace." 1 Corinthians 7:15
Beating up a person is a criminal offence. We are called to peace. A violent relationship is not peaceful. As the police cart the violent offender away, the spouse is entitled to file for divorce. He/she is leaving!
Or would you prefer to wait until divorce is unnecessary because (mostly) the wife has been murdered?

 

[Aussie Pete]

If I recall correctly, I Iiked or agreed with that post, so I'm going to take a liberty and reply.

God does not lack compassion. Even the most cursory search for this word in the Bible throws up numerous appropriate verses. If you are not sure where to look I suggest you start with Psalms.

In case you're wondering, I don't have much time for highly legalistic approaches to this type of dilemma.

I'm with you. It's common sense, not that there is much of it about.

 

[twinserk]

"Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace." 1 Corinthians 7:15
Beating up a person is a criminal offence. We are called to peace. A violent relationship is not peaceful. As the police cart the violent offender away, the spouse is entitled to file for divorce. He/she is leaving!
Or would you prefer to wait until divorce is unnecessary because (mostly) the wife has been murdered?

What else can be justified under the name of being called to peace? Taping the mouths of screaming toddlers? Slashing the tires of the loud car in the neighborhood? One can't just rationalize behavior that will leave their life more peaceful, merely because Paul said we are called to it.

Divorce and remarriage is only allowable in the case of fornication (Mt 5:32). If one's spouse is abusive, there's nothing stopping them from leaving - though they won't be able to remarry. The bible is clear that marriage is permanent, with only few exceptions. That's kinda why His disciples were so shocked, and said it was better not to marry:

Mt 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.​

If I recall correctly, I Iiked or agreed with that post, so I'm going to take a liberty and reply.

God does not lack compassion. Even the most cursory search for this word in the Bible throws up numerous appropriate verses. If you are not sure where to look I suggest you start with Psalms.

In case you're wondering, I don't have much time for highly legalistic approaches to this type of dilemma.

Legalistic... They're more what you call guidelines, than actual rules? Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Ms. Turner.

You're right, God doesn't lack compassion. But that hardly means He allows divorce (and remarriage, presumably) in the case of abuse. Civil authority exists for a reason.

Scripture prescribes lashes (De 25:3), and then death (De 17:12) if he/she didn't turn their act around. The death of the abusive spouse, would obviously then free his/her widow(er) to remarry.

Our civil system's failure to abide by God's law, and refusal to execute repeat abusers, does not then justify divorce and remarriage because of the abusers continued existence.

Does a verse need to exist for it to be permitted (or not)?

If a verse does not exist on the subject, then we are free to make our own decision. But there are plenty of verses that speak on divorce (and remarriage, presumably), and none of them allow for abusive spouses.

If we're going to start invalidating scripture with our own opinions, why are we even here? We should just call ourselves humanists and be done with it.

 

[bèlla]

I used to say if I was abused it would be cause for divorce. But the Lord led me to a different conclusion this year. Although I have never been abused I don’t feel it pardons my vow. Obviously, safety and mutual healing is a must. But I don’t get to choose the ‘worse’ I’ll abide by.

 

[JAM2b]

My response is to the question in the original post. I have not read anything posted after that.

If there were a very good reason for it, I would do it temporarily. But the reasons would have to be something like a career that can't be moved or family related.

An example in my personal life is that I'm a single mother who shares kids with an ex. My sons love their high school, and it is a specialty charter school, so it's kind of unique and a once in a lifetime opportunity. I have to stay close enough to my ex to be able to afford for us to transport the boys for visits. I'm not going to make teenagers give up a school that they love, especially considering the struggles they have had. There is an end to this season, though.

I believe if you love someone enough and are patient, you can make anything work for at least a little while.

 

[High Fidelity]

Why would you marry someone that annoys you?

Makes no sense.

 

[twinserk]

I used to say if I was abused it would be cause for divorce. But the Lord led me to a different conclusion this year. Although I have never been abused I don’t feel it pardons my vow. Obviously, safety and mutual healing is a must. But I don’t get to choose the ‘worse’ I’ll abide by.

It's hardly a pleasant reality, but I agree.

 

[bekkilyn]

I'd be really interested in seeing if any of these opinions change *after* they've been married and beaten down physically and emotionally by an abusive spouse. It's easy to talk about what one would never do, or treat it as a trivial thing, when one has never remotely experienced what they are talking about. Fortunately, I believe God is far more compassionate than people here on CF, and when Jesus talks about divorce, his intent is to *protect* people from harm and not to force them to endure abuse without any hope of love or relationship for the rest of their lives when he has not called those people into living lives of celibacy.

 

[bèlla]

I'd be really interested in seeing if any of these opinions change *after* they've been married and beaten down physically and emotionally by an abusive spouse.

Why would you hope for that? Are you suggesting there are things in life you would never do that you haven’t articulated or lines in the sand you’re unable to cross you’ve never uttered?

It's easy to talk about what one would never do, or treat it as a trivial thing, when one has never remotely experienced what they are talking about.

Are you certain the subject was trivialized or is that your perception?

Fortunately, I believe God is far more compassionate than people here on CF.

God is able to see the heart of a matter. His judgments are based on facts. Not assumptions or bias. We fall short but aim to see things as He does.

 

[bekkilyn]

Why would you hope for that? Are you suggesting there are things in life you would never do that you haven’t articulated or lines in the sand you’re unable to cross you’ve never uttered?

I'm not saying I HOPE for it. I certainly would never hope anyone gets abused like this, but I do happen to wonder how opinions might change after actually going through such a situation vs. just sitting safely on the sidelines and having no skin in the game.

Are you certain the subject was trivialized or is that your perception?

I see a lot of talk with less actual experience.

God is able to see the heart of a matter. His judgments are based on facts. Not assumptions or bias. We fall short but aim to see things as He does.

No one here is arguing against God. If you think God is complicit in abusive relationships, then I highly doubt you are seeing things as he does, or understand the motive for Jesus' stance concerning divorce.

 

[bèlla]

I'm not saying I HOPE for it. I certainly would never hope anyone gets abused like this, but I do happen to wonder how opinions might change after actually going through such a situation vs. just sitting safely on the sidelines and having no skin in the game.

Do you believe we must endure negative events to recognize they’re harmful? How do you reconcile the Ten Commandments and other biblical prohibitions? Must we have “skin in the game” to realize the harm their engagement would cause?

I see a lot of talk with less actual experience.

Do you need to commit a crime to realize the horrors of being incarcerated? Or are you able to learn from the mistakes others have made?

Wisdom doesn’t require us to traverse the bowels of life to recognize some things are harmful and should not be pursued.

No one here is arguing against God. If you think God is complicit in abusive relationships, then I highly doubt you are seeing things as he does, or understand the motive for Jesus' stance concerning divorce.

I don’t think anyone is saying that. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That doesn’t mean my path to sanctification mirrors the next.

 

[Sam91]

Do you believe we must endure negative events to recognize they’re harmful? How do you reconcile the Ten Commandments and other biblical prohibitions? Must we have “skin in the game” to realize the harm their engagement would cause?



Do you need to commit a crime to realize the horrors of being incarcerated? Or are you able to learn from the mistakes others have made?

Wisdom doesn’t require us to traverse the bowels of life to recognize some things are harmful and should not be pursued.



I don’t think anyone is saying that. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That doesn’t mean my path to sanctification mirrors the next.

My baptist pastor told me to get a divorce with a capital 'D' ASAP. He said husband had broken the covenant and I must protect my children.

I haven't gotten divorce. Just separated for 2.8 years now. No point if I intend to stay single.


PS you don't know what you're talking about if you think abuse is just a hardship to be endured. I've never witnessed so much evil as I did in the short time I was abused. I didn't think someone could be so relentless abusive and enjoy doing it. Meanwhile he continued evangelizing strangers and appeared loving, humble, helpful to others.

 

[bèlla]

My pastor told me to get a divorce with a capital 'D' ASAP. He said husband had broken the covenant and I must protect my children.

I haven't gotten divorce. Just separated for 2.8 years now. No point if I intend to stay single.

Has he shown a willingness to change? It isn’t easy and I’m sure you’re doing the best you can for you children.

Several years ago while laboring for someone’s salvation I came across a book that rocked me to the core. I heard the wife’s testimony on a Christian radio show. And her story touched me deeply.

I bought the book and quickly realized her husband shared the same name as the one I was praying for. God used the book as a mirror. He showed me my heart and everything that impeded my love.

By the time I finished I was scourged and gaping. I was refreshed and willing to endure. No matter what. I learned the meaning of agape through that experience. And I’m bettered because of it.

How can I pray for you?

 

[JustSomeBloke]

It's easy to pontificate on what you would or wouldn't do in a hypothetical situation, but until it's you that's got a detached retina, broken ribs, and internal bleeding, it's all a bit academic. And there are also many other forms of abuse besides physical, such as emotional, psychological e.g. gaslighting, controlling access to money and friends etc. etc. In my experience, sometimes no matter how many times things like this are explained, some people are simply incapable of understanding and empathising with the brutal reality of such a situation.

That's just the way it is. Some people 'get it' and are able to understand and empathise, and others never get to that stage no matter how many times it's explained. I'm not sure what it would take to change their mind. Many people probably don't encounter those who've been abused, partly because it's still a bit of a taboo topic, and partly because fortunately the worst abuse cases are not too common. Perhaps some dialogue and close encounters with victims would help with understanding and empathising.

 

[bèlla]

Just because someone hasn’t been abused doesn’t mean they’re oblivious to what it means and haven’t aided others in their healing. There’s no biblical precept that says we must walk in someone’s shoes to love or empathize.

Jesus addressed a lot of things He never did or would experience. I guess He’s clueless too. And so is Paul.

Heeding the Lord’s direction requires a pliable spirit that’s yielded to Him. Skin in the game and the like are man made principles. God says obedience is better than sacrifice. He didn’t preference that with the qualifiers that were mentioned in this thread.

 

[blackribbon]

I think that you can not say how you would act if placed in certain circumstances. You can only guess how you would feel and respond based on your current understanding and worldview. I remember making suppositions when we were facing my husband's death and even knowing the fact that he could likely die was very different from the reality of having him die. I also remember thinking about the time my kids were 5 years old that I owed a lot of people apologies for all the things that I said "I'd never do as a parent." It is a waste of time and energy to "imagine" yourself in someone else's shoes...unless it is just to find more compassion and empathy. It certainly isn't worth arguing over. In the end, you likely can't imagine it unless you have lived it. And if it is awful, most of those who have lived through it pray that you never will have a real understanding and are saved from the pain.

 

[bèlla]

Being obedient to the Holy Spirit’s leading isn’t saying how you would act. Its agreeing to follow His will. When God gives us a prohibition He provides the strength and courage to see it through.

 

[blackribbon]

Being obedient to the Holy Spirit’s leading isn’t saying how you would act. Its agreeing to follow His will. When God gives us a prohibition He provides the strength and courage to see it through.

Some times he just asks you to be willing to follow His lead, and that doesn't mean you will ever face it or that someone else has the same lead.