Worshiping the Holy Spirit Is Unbiblical

[JacksBratt]

I really don't understand much of what is being said here, especially by those who claim to believe in the Holy Trinity, and the absolute equality of the Persons in the Godhead. Exactly why is this thread being given so much attention, when its OP is clearly Biblically false? The Holy Spirit, like the Father and Jesus Christ is Almighty God, as it clearly taught in the Bible. Being such, He is worthy of everything that is ascribed to the Father and Jesus, like Honour, and Worship and Praise and Glory, and Blessings, and Reverance, etc, etc. I see no division in the Bible regarding the Holy Spirit, as though He were a lesser Person in the Godhead. Since the salvation of each sinner is the work of the entire Godhead, surely The Three are equally worthy of our absolute worship?

John 4:24 tells is, "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”. It does not here just refer to the Father, Who is mentioned in the context, as "God" is also equally true of Jesus, where we read in passages like John 1:1, "and the Word was God", and 1 Timothy 3:16, "God was manifested in the flesh". Likewise, in Acts 5, verses 3-4, we read the Holy Spirit is referred to as "God", where the Greek, τῷ θεῷ, does not allow for us to understand "God" in any lesser sense, than when used of the Father.

I totally agree.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You can pray to the Son at that throne of grace and by Him, you can pray to the Father, but since the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, being in you always, and not the Mediator, being in between us and the Father, then praying or talking to the Holy Spirit is not what the Holy Spirit nor scripture would lead you to do.

How can you be sure that it is not the Holy Spirit that has lead these people to pray to Him? I don’t think anyone can actually say for sure.

In my opinion the Holy Spirit being God and leading us in our walk with Christ deserves a certain level of respect, love, and adoration as well. I choose to do this in appreciation for His help in guiding my in my walk with Christ. I don’t think we should forsake the Holy Spirit who is also a personality of God. Basically I don’t want Him to be left out of my love for God. If it were not for His guidance we would be unable to abide in Christ not knowing the way. The scriptures tell us the things that are forbidden but not always the things that are permitted and I don’t see anything in the scriptures forbidding loving and honoring the Holy Spirit.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

So, if I cannot worship or pray to the Holy Spirit... where does that leave Catholics who pray to Mary and the Saints as well?

If they want to come to God the Father in worship, prayer, and fellowship, they have to go to the Son.

Mary nor the departed saints are answering their prayers any more than the Holy Spirit is because there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

So what is answering their prayers? The spirits of the antichrist as in "instead of Christ" and in spite of the "miracles" as cited in Matthew 7:21-23 and being in His Presence at communion in Luke 13:25-30, we are called to narrow the way back to the Son Luke 13:24 & Matthew 7:13-14 or be in iniquity for why many are falling backwards and in confusion; Matthew 7:24-27.

So by setting the example in regards to the Holy Spirit by the scripture for showing why and that is to take heed to His words, maybe the Lord will lead them to do the same in regards to Mary & the departed saints and just come to God thru Jesus in prayer, fellowship and worship.

 

[devin553344]

I understand the contention, although it has not been stated yet, that just because Trinity or the rapture is not mention in the Bible, that it does not mean it is not Biblical. I know there are verses testifying to the Triune God and to the rapture even though it is not directly referenced as such. However...

There is a specific way stated plainly for how God wants us to honor Him by AND there is a specific way mentioned WHEN we are NOT honoring Him. The fact that is the standard of judgment raised is why we should take heed.

John 5: 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Note the positive at the beginning of verse 23 on how the Father wants us to honor Him.

Then understand the negative on when we stop honoring the Father at the latter end of verse 23.

There is no wiggle room for the honoring of the Holy Spirit in worship, even though He is God.

Look at the cause and effect for not heeding His words; believers fall backwards in confusion when focus on the Holy Spirit is done in the worship place. Why should that happen at all? Here is why.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it....24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

We can only live this reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom. That also includes how we come to God the Father in honoring Him in worship. There's no other way lest we broaden the way for how and why believers are falling in the worship place.

No contention at all, we're just trying to be helpful I would think. Well you do seem very convinced of your God interpretation. Although I did notice that you dismiss any scriptural reference that suggests otherwise and continue to hold on to your idea. Stating that the scriptures your referencing dismiss any others. But you did ask in the OP where in the bible it states we should worship the Holy Spirit. And I have seen people in this thread respond with good biblical references.

Then the only thing I can tell you is to keep looking.

By the way, I don't, and would suggest for you also, not to base your Holy Spirit beliefs on strange churches. I have had several really awesome Holy Spirit experiences which involved the Fruits of the Holy Spirit as described in Galatians 5:22-23. And while I don't get drunk with the Holy Spirit, just the opposite, I do see how some churches could get that confused. And the reason their confused is interpreting the blood of Christ, which Jesus related to the wine, to the Holy Spirit. And being filled with the Holy Spirit saying they are drunk with it. That just means filled with a great measure really. You have to remember that they're just children of God's too and subject to childish ideas.

Anyways, God Bless You

 

[TheBibleSays]

If they want to come to God the Father in worship, prayer, and fellowship, they have to go to the Son.

Mary nor the departed saints are answering their prayers any more than the Holy Spirit is because there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

So what is answering their prayers? The spirits of the antichrist as in "instead of Christ" and in spite of the "miracles" as cited in Matthew 7:21-23 and being in His Presence at communion in Luke 13:25-30, we are called to narrow the way back to the Son Luke 13:24 & Matthew 7:13-14 or be in iniquity for why many are falling backwards and in confusion; Matthew 7:24-27.

So by setting the example in regards to the Holy Spirit by the scripture for showing why and that is to take heed to His words, maybe the Lord will lead them to do the same in regards to Mary & the departed saints and just come to God thru Jesus in prayer, fellowship and worship.

Hello, your understanding of the Persons of the Godhead is quite faulty. Your comment, "Mary nor the departed saints are answering their prayers any more than the Holy Spirit is because there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5 ", shows this. If you have read what I have written at #68, you will see there that I refer to the passage from Acts 13, of the call of Paul and Barnabas, to the ministry. You will note, that those present were said to have been "worshiping the Lord". The Person of the Godhead Who responds to this, is not the Father, or Jesus Christ, but the Holy Spirit. We also read in this passage that the Holy Spirit sends these two to do His work, in taking the Gospel to the lost world of sinners. You are simply trying to be clever with your arguments, to show something that it not even there in the Bible, and therefore is moot!

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

No contention at all, we're just trying to be helpful I would think. Well you do seem very convinced of your God interpretation. Although I did notice that you dismiss any scriptural reference that suggests otherwise and continue to hold on to your idea. Stating that the scriptures your referencing dismiss any others. But you did ask in the OP where in the bible it states we should worship the Holy Spirit. And I have seen people in this thread respond with good biblical references.

I have seen no scripture citing the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son. The internet's reference of Matthew 3:16-17 for that line in the Nicene creed doesn't cut it.

I have seen scripture about the Holy Spirit being God and of the Triune God BUT I see the Father's will on how to come to Him and how He wants us to honor Him AND explained when we are NOT honoring Him.

Then the only thing I can tell you is to keep looking.

By the way, I don't, and would suggest for you also, not to base your Holy Spirit beliefs on strange churches. I have had several really awesome Holy Spirit experiences which involved the Fruits of the Holy Spirit as described in Galatians 5:22-23. And while I don't get drunk with the Holy Spirit, just the opposite, I do see how some churches could get that confused. And the reason their confused is interpreting the blood of Christ, which Jesus related to the wine, to the Holy Spirit. And being filled with the Holy Spirit saying they are drunk with it. That just means filled with a great measure really. You have to remember that they're just children of God's too and subject to childish ideas.

Anyways, God Bless You

Well, are you taking your experiences over what scripture says though? Just because it feels good, doesn't mean it is of Him. Khundalini, an eastern mysticism can boast of the same experiences of feeling a great sense of love, or joy, or peace as well as felling fire, electricity, power and unfortunately, some scary things too. So just because it feels good, does not mean it is of God. Indeed, one can say that is why they ae called seducing spirits.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

We are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ but the apostle John warned us not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1

That test in 1 John 4:2 is the same test stated in 2 Corinthians 13:5

Those who disagree thinking 1 John 4:3 is about denying Jesus had never come in the flesh are forgetting that this is about testing the spirits in 1 John 4:1 whereby 1 John 4:2 is about where Jesus Christ dwells presently for how "is come" is to be applied. This is so because in 1 John 4:3-4 , it explains where the spirits of the antichrist is at, outside of us. So that means feeling any spirit coming over you, filling you, when the Holy Spirit has been in you since you were saved is NOT the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist. They may even bring ecstatic tongues which can be found in world's religions and the occult, but it is not God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people as that is the spirit f error as oppose to knowing the Spirit of Truth being in us since salvation.

I thank you for trying to help me, brother, but I can only hope the Lord is opening your eyes for why I am concern for you and the body of Christ in these latter days where faith is hard to find and defend.

 

[Not David]

I have seen no scripture citing the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son. The internet's reference of Matthew 3:16-17 for that line in the Nicene creed doesn't cut it.

I have seen scripture about the Holy Spirit being God and of the Triune God BUT I see the Father's will on how to come to Him and how He wants us to honor Him AND explained when we are NOT honoring Him.



Well, are you taking your experiences over what scripture says though? Just because it feels good, doesn't mean it is of Him. Khundalini, an eastern mysticism can boast of the same experiences of feeling a great sense of love, or joy, or peace as well as felling fire, electricity, power and unfortunately, some scary things too. So just because it feels good, does not mean it is of God. Indeed, one can say that is why they ae called seducing spirits.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

We are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ but the apostle John warned us not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1

That test in 1 John 4:2 is the same test stated in 2 Corinthians 13:5

Those who disagree thinking 1 John 4:3 is about denying Jesus had never come in the flesh are forgetting that this is about testing the spirits in 1 John 4:1 whereby 1 John 4:2 is about where Jesus Christ dwells presently for how "is come" is to be applied. This is so because in 1 John 4:3-4 , it explains where the spirits of the antichrist is at, outside of us. So that means feeling any spirit coming over you, filling you, when the Holy Spirit has been in you since you were saved is NOT the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist. They may even bring ecstatic tongues which can be found in world's religions and the occult, but it is not God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people as that is the spirit f error as oppose to knowing the Spirit of Truth being in us since salvation.

I thank you for trying to help me, brother, but I can only hope the Lord is opening your eyes for why I am concern for you and the body of Christ in these latter days where faith is hard to find and defend.

Where in the Bible says that everything has to be in the Bible?
By saying we don't worship the Holy Spirit, you are taking his divine whether you want to see it or not.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Where in the Bible says that everything has to be in the Bible?

When someone says something that is contrary to what is written, then it cannot be of the truth.

By saying we don't worship the Holy Spirit, you are taking his divine whether you want to see it or not.

We are not to worship the Holy Spirit because we are led by the Holy Spirit to worship the Son. That means the Holy Spirit will not be leading us to testify of Himself to glorify Himself but to testify of the Son to glorify the Son, and He can only do that ( His job ) through us, especially in worship.

I have cited John 5:23 for HOW God the Father is NOT honored and that is WHEN we are NOT honoring the Son. Therefore, by honoring the Holy Spirit is NOT honoring the Father.

The relation between Father and Son is how honoring the Son is given to the Father. That is what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do.

You have to discern why some believers fall by a phenomenon when they address the Holy Spirit in worship, even when honoring the Holy Spirit as they reap signs of confusions from doing so while experiencing what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation.

You have to ask the Lord why He would allow that to happen; why would God permit that strong delusion to occur?

All I can see is that Jesus meant what He has said.. that He is the only way to come to God the Father by and He was not just talking about salvation either. Then you have His words in John 5:23.

So is that the reason why Jesus said what He did that did not include the Holy Spirit to be honored? Are you ignoring the commandment of His invitation in the only way to come to God the Father by?

There is no denying the deity of the Holy Spirit but are you ignoring other spirits in the world that God would call sinners away from for why they can only approach the Father by the only way of the Son?

 

[Ing Bee]

I recognize the glory of God is on the Son for what He was going to do and has done.



The verses cited ( Philippians 2:5-13 ) is referring to the mind of Christ we are to have in worship and that is what we are to obey while in Paul's absence.


The glory of the Father does not exists without the glory of the Son for what He has done. The Holy Spirit's role is to glorify the Son and He cannot do that any other way than through us in worship.

The problem here is believers are experiencing a phenomenon of various effects by which many fall backwards by these "visitations". No matter what confusion they are in, you may not be able to convince them that was not the Holy Spirit when focus was on the Holy Spirit in the worship place.

You are left wondering why would God allow that to happen? For not taking heed to His words.

The fact that strange confusing phenomenon occurs when focus is on the Holy Spirit in the worship place should be more than enough to show cause and effect for not heeding His words for why believers are falling by that phenomenon.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it....24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

We can only live this reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom. That also includes how we come to God the Father in honoring Him in worship. There's no other way.

John 5: 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Note the positive at the beginning of verse 23 on how the Father wants us to honor Him.

Then understand the negative on when we stop honoring the Father at the latter end of verse 23.

There is no wiggle room for the honoring of the Holy Spirit in worship, even though He is God.

Thank you for your response. I understand your concerns about excess by some churches. I have no truck with that. However, by making this discussion about why the Holy Spirit should Not be worshipped rather than about excesses and disorder in corporate worship you are barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. The answer isn't to overemphasize what is essentially an argument from silence by importing an idea into scripture that isn't there.

For example, you have made Matt. 5:22-23 a prescription for the ONLY way the Father wants to be honored. But it doesn't say that; Jesus is speaking there about his own uniqueness and importance. The jews were completely comfortable honoring God (the Father) but they had not encountered the Son in the incarnation and were prone to reject his divinity as blasphemy. Therefore, they needed a clear warning that to not honor Jesus was the same as not honoring God. The Spirit had not yet been sent into the world as he would be in Acts 2 so he does not figure in Jesus's speech here. That would be an odd way to tell a story. You don't discuss characters that haven't been introduced.

By saying "There is no wiggle room for honoring the Holy Spirit in worship", you are importing a concept that is totally absent from any text, anywhere. You are also conflating "worship" to mean "corporate worship in a modern church setting", which muddies the discussion.

Additionally, you seem to be conceptualizing the persons and relationship between the members of the trinity in a way that neither the Bible nor historic Christianity would recognize.

A simple gauge:

• Is God worthy of worship?
• For what reason or on what grounds is God worthy of worship?
• Is the Holy Spirit God?

Perhaps a helpful question in line with your thoughts would be:

• What is the proper way to worship the Father, Son & Holy Spirit?
• What is "orderly worship" when Christians join together?

If your objective is to address excesses that are unhealthy that's fine. You will just have a difficult time convincing others who are biblically sound if you marshall passages to your cause that don't actually say what you want them to say. In my view, a better tack to accomplish your purpose of addressing excesses in corporate worship would be to look at the Pauline passages on orderly worship (Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Corinthians, Timothy & Titus, etc.) and work from there. Those focus more on what is beneficial for the gathering of God's people. Notice Paul (1 Cor. 14) addresses "speaking in tongues" explicitly by basically saying "do it on your own time, but not in a group setting except with an interpreter and only a few at a time.

 

[bekkilyn]

The only reason the Holy Spirit wouldn't be worshiped would be if he is not God, and the person who would question his worship would be a person who does not believe that the Holy Spirit is God.

The Trinity is not a hierarchy with God the Father at the top, and then next comes Jesus, and then lastly the Holy Spirit. The Trinity are equal parts of the same God..the ONE and only God. God is not the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit, but all three at once. Think of a jewel with three sides. Each side is not a separate jewel by itself, but all three are of the same jewel that we can view from different sides.

Jesus's statement about not coming through the Father but through him is a reference of his death on the cross and his resurrection, without which no one would be saved as we would still be bearing the guilt of our sin rather than Jesus having done it. It does not in any way negate the fact that God in his entirety of self is to be worshiped.

I don't understand why this would even be in question for anyone besides someone who believes that the Holy Spirit is not God just like Jesus is God and the Father is God. All three. You can't have one without the others as they are a package deal.

 

[TheBibleSays]

This thread is becoming a total waste to time, with one person's ego trying to dictate what we should believe, rather than what the Infallible, Inerrant Word of God, the Holy Bible teaches!

 

[devin553344]

I have seen no scripture citing the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son. The internet's reference of Matthew 3:16-17 for that line in the Nicene creed doesn't cut it.

I have seen scripture about the Holy Spirit being God and of the Triune God BUT I see the Father's will on how to come to Him and how He wants us to honor Him AND explained when we are NOT honoring Him.



Well, are you taking your experiences over what scripture says though? Just because it feels good, doesn't mean it is of Him. Khundalini, an eastern mysticism can boast of the same experiences of feeling a great sense of love, or joy, or peace as well as felling fire, electricity, power and unfortunately, some scary things too. So just because it feels good, does not mean it is of God. Indeed, one can say that is why they ae called seducing spirits.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

We are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ but the apostle John warned us not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1

That test in 1 John 4:2 is the same test stated in 2 Corinthians 13:5

Those who disagree thinking 1 John 4:3 is about denying Jesus had never come in the flesh are forgetting that this is about testing the spirits in 1 John 4:1 whereby 1 John 4:2 is about where Jesus Christ dwells presently for how "is come" is to be applied. This is so because in 1 John 4:3-4 , it explains where the spirits of the antichrist is at, outside of us. So that means feeling any spirit coming over you, filling you, when the Holy Spirit has been in you since you were saved is NOT the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist. They may even bring ecstatic tongues which can be found in world's religions and the occult, but it is not God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people as that is the spirit f error as oppose to knowing the Spirit of Truth being in us since salvation.

I thank you for trying to help me, brother, but I can only hope the Lord is opening your eyes for why I am concern for you and the body of Christ in these latter days where faith is hard to find and defend.

We have quoted scripture that says the Holy Spirit is God: John 4:24 for example spells out to worship him in the spirit. It's not a trick to feel the fruits of the spirit, Galatians 5:22-23. You would be denying the fruits of His Holy Spirit.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Thank you for your response. I understand your concerns about excess by some churches. I have no truck with that. However, by making this discussion about why the Holy Spirit should Not be worshipped rather than about excesses and disorder in corporate worship you are barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. The answer isn't to overemphasize what is essentially an argument from silence by importing an idea into scripture that isn't there.

Why do those excesses happen when they are focusing on the Holy Spirit? Why would God allow the devil to respond when Christians were addressing the Holy Spirit in worship and prayer? Why would God permit strong delusions to occur unless they are engaging in iniquity for that to happen?

For example, you have made Matt. 5:22-23

Actually, that is John 5:22-23 just to keep things straight in the discussion.

a prescription for the ONLY way the Father wants to be honored. But it doesn't say that; Jesus is speaking there about his own uniqueness and importance. The jews were completely comfortable honoring God (the Father) but they had not encountered the Son in the incarnation and were prone to reject his divinity as blasphemy. Therefore, they needed a clear warning that to not honor Jesus was the same as not honoring God. The Spirit had not yet been sent into the world as he would be in Acts 2 so he does not figure in Jesus's speech here. That would be an odd way to tell a story. You don't discuss characters that haven't been introduced.

The promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit has not been sent by the Father yet until Acts 2 when His disciples were officially saved, but Jesus has given a temporary indwelling in Matthew 10th chapter even to Judas Iscariot whom was not a believer and again in John 20th chapter when Thomas was not with them. John 14th chapter cites the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost was when He has ascended to the father and was no longer with them thus received by faith in Jesus Christ.

Getting back on point;

John 5:22 is prepping the readers for a coming standard of judgment in John 5:23. I am not comfortable to gloss over that latter part of verse 23 when it cites when we are not honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father. That to me, voicing the flip side of the coin is citing the only way to honor God the Father is by honoring the Son. You have to take both message in verse 23 as meaning for that purpose. There is no point mentioning the latter part of verse 23 unless to signify the only way to honor the Father by.

By saying "There is no wiggle room for honoring the Holy Spirit in worship", you are importing a concept that is totally absent from any text, anywhere. You are also conflating "worship" to mean "corporate worship in a modern church setting", which muddies the discussion.

By not honoring the Son, believers are not honoring the Father. That is a judgment that is coming.

Additionally, you seem to be conceptualizing the persons and relationship between the members of the trinity in a way that neither the Bible nor historic Christianity would recognize.

A simple gauge:

• Is God worthy of worship?
• For what reason or on what grounds is God worthy of worship?
• Is the Holy Spirit God?

Perhaps a helpful question in line with your thoughts would be:

• What is the proper way to worship the Father, Son & Holy Spirit?
• What is "orderly worship" when Christians join together?

Is God worthy of worship? For what reason is God is to be worshipped? What Jesus Christ has done for us. That is where the glory of God rests upon and nothing else otherwise we be preaching more than just one gospel. That is the mind of Christ we are to have and obey when it comes to glorifying God the Father by. Philippians 2:5-13​

If your objective is to address excesses that are unhealthy that's fine. You will just have a difficult time convincing others who are biblically sound if you marshall passages to your cause that don't actually say what you want them to say. In my view, a better tack to accomplish your purpose of addressing excesses in corporate worship would be to look at the Pauline passages on orderly worship (Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Corinthians, Timothy & Titus, etc.) and work from there. Those focus more on what is beneficial for the gathering of God's people. Notice Paul (1 Cor. 14) addresses "speaking in tongues" explicitly by basically saying "do it on your own time, but not in a group setting except with an interpreter and only a few at a time.

Tongue speakers strain and wrest the scripture at putting their tongues for private use in between the lines while ignoring scripture elsewhere that plainly refutes it for private use.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

That means not individually, and certainly not gained by another drink of the One Spirit. More proof?

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many....

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

That is what tongue speakers are saying when tongues are for private use.

Plus, the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues for uttering His own intercessions as you can find that truth in all Bible versions in John 16:13. The KJV has Romans 8:26-27 KJV right in that not even His groanings can be uttered. That means the truth in Romans 8:26-27 KJV is for every believer because Jesus searches our hearts ( see Hebrews 4:12-16 ) and knows the mind of the Spirit for how the Father knows everything before as ask Him ( Matthew 6:7-8 )

It is because that tongue for private use was gained by what they assume was the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation is why that tongue is not coming with interpretation, but is gibberish nonsense.

God wants us to pray and know what we had prayed for so that when Jesus answers prayers, the Father gets thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers; John 14:13-14 1 Thessalonians 5:17-18 2 Timothy 2:16 with 2 Timothy 2:24-26

 

[PaulCyp1]

Try as you might, you cannot find a single verse that says we have to find a Bible verse for everything we believe as Christians. That idea is a modern tradition of men that no-one on Earth ever heard of until a few hundred years ago. The Apostles never heard of it. Jesus Christ never heard of it (which figures since the Bible didn't exist then). What Jesus Christ had to say on the subject is that the ONE Church He founded would always teach the fullness of God's truth, so that is where we are to look in order to find His Word.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

The only reason the Holy Spirit wouldn't be worshiped would be if he is not God, and the person who would question his worship would be a person who does not believe that the Holy Spirit is God.

The Trinity is not a hierarchy with God the Father at the top, and then next comes Jesus, and then lastly the Holy Spirit. The Trinity are equal parts of the same God..the ONE and only God. God is not the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit, but all three at once. Think of a jewel with three sides. Each side is not a separate jewel by itself, but all three are of the same jewel that we can view from different sides.

Jesus's statement about not coming through the Father but through him is a reference of his death on the cross and his resurrection, without which no one would be saved as we would still be bearing the guilt of our sin rather than Jesus having done it. It does not in any way negate the fact that God in his entirety of self is to be worshiped.

I don't understand why this would even be in question for anyone besides someone who believes that the Holy Spirit is not God just like Jesus is God and the Father is God. All three. You can't have one without the others as they are a package deal.

The question arises when strange and confusing phenomenon has happened at various times as witnessed by believers when they honor the Holy Spirit by focusing on Him in worship; they will feel what they believe is His Presence in the worship place to others feeling the "Holy Spirit" coming over them, infilling them apart from salvation, with a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation. Then from that, there are some that experience a loss of self control as they fall backwards as well as other signs of confusion which God is not the author of.

So why would God allow that to happen? Jesus said for not heeding His words as for why they are falling down in Matthew 7:24-27 and His word is that He is the only way to come to God the Father in worship John 14:6 and no other way ( John 10:1 ) for why we are called to strive to enter thru the strait gate in these latter days ( Luke 13:24 ) because of the Nicene creed, done in ecumenical format as gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles; Matthew 7:15-16 has broadened the way in the worship place ( Matthew 7:13-14 ) The consequence is being left behind; Luke 13:24-30

Jesus is the Bridegroom. We should always have the focus on Him because He will be coming soon.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

This thread is becoming a total waste to time, with one person's ego trying to dictate what we should believe, rather than what the Infallible, Inerrant Word of God, the Holy Bible teaches!

And where does it teach in the Bible for the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? I cannot find such a practice as taught in any of the epistles, even though the Holy Spirit is God.

Why? John 14:6 & John 10:1 & John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-13 is why.

When you look at the scripture for what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do, ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:14 ) then we, as led by the Spirit and scripture, cannot deviate from without being seen by the scripture as not led by the Spirit to do.

The consequence is running the risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes. Luke 13:24-30

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

We have quoted scripture that says the Holy Spirit is God: John 4:24 for example spells out to worship him in the spirit. It's not a trick to feel the fruits of the spirit, Galatians 5:22-23. You would be denying the fruits of His Holy Spirit.

John 4:24 is about not confining worship to a place like the mountains or Jerusalem because God is Omnipresence. Then one would ask how to come to God the Father anywhere? By Honoring the Son in worship because by coming to the Son in that way in worship is how you come to God the Father in worship in order to honor Him; John 5:22-23 & John 14:6

That said, the Father has a celestial body for why Jesus before His incarnation had asked the Father this:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Jesus has seen the Father even though no man has so the Father is not invisible.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

One day we will not need Jesus to ask the Father for us for we will see the Father plainly and ask the Father ourselves.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where Jesus will bring us to as the Bridegroom is where the Father is and since He has seen the Father, we will see the Father too.

The use of the term "invisible" in reference to God is not meaning He is invisible like a spirit, but not presently seen. We see the same invisible as applied to Jesus Christ, the King of kings.

1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So God is a Spirit is only referring to God's Omnipresence; not that the Father is invisible as if He has no celestial body that cannot be seen except in Heaven.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Try as you might, you cannot find a single verse that says we have to find a Bible verse for everything we believe as Christians.

Well, I suppose you would say that since most Catholics are against solo scriptura anyway, but you can find a verse that signifies relying on and using scripture as a way to reprove false teachings.

2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Jesus being the only Mediator between God and men, signifying the man Christ Jesus, our risen and ascended Savior, pretty much rules out the Holy Spirit being that Mediator between God and men ( even though He is God ) and along with Mary and every other departed saints.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it..

Only Jesus answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

Mary made no promise. None of the other departed saints made any promise before they had departed.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Prayers are given to deity as even heathens know that. But when it comes to the Triune God, in coming to God the Father by, we can only do so by the Lamb of God. No one else.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[eleos1954]

I know that they referenced Matthew 3:16-17 as proof text for the "practice" of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son for that modified Nicene creed, but it doesn't really cite the practice at all. Try as I might by search engines, I cannot find an actual verse for that practice, even though the Holy Spirit is God.

Contentions are that the Holy Spirit is God ( I agree ) and of the Triune God ( I agree ) and so we should worship Him as well. It sounds reasonable until I read these verses.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Do note that John 5:22 is citing a judgment we should not play around with

Jesus did not mention the Holy Spirit at all. If He had not stated that last portion of verse 23, I would think it would be okay to honor the Holy Spirit just as long as they honor the Son, BUT because that bold and underlined statement is what Jesus has said is why I believe honoring the Holy Spirit is not the will of the father for us to do nor are we led by the Spirit to do that.

If we look at the role of the Holy Spirit we find He has a job to do through us.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me:

The n we have this truth about what makes each of our individual witness of Jesus Christ as true.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

So let us say we as individual believers decided to worship God in our solitary private setting whereby as led by the Holy Spirit in us, what we say in honoring the Son in glorifying the Son in worship will be true as by doing so honor and glorifies God the Father.

So in an assembly of a body of believers, our witnesses and our worship is true because the Holy Spirit is doing the same thing thru us to do that. The Holy Spirit cannot lead believers to speak of Himself in seeking the gory of Himself in worship just as a believer will not speak of himself to seek the glory of himself in worship for that worship to be true.

Now before we consider that I am being too literal with the Word of God in application, consider my alarm when believers call for the Holy Spirit in worship to come and fall on them, and there is nothing but chaos and confusion when something responds. Even one brother in India did not believe that the Holy Spirit would do any dramatic manifestations any more and one Pentecostal calendar day, he and his church was honoring the Holy Spirit when he felt something like liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull, and he was giving an unwilling apology to the Holy Spirit for not believing He did such dramatic manifestations today as He has done back in the early church days.

#1; God wants a willing confession; not a coerced one. He did not give us a spirit of fear, but of sound mind. If the Holy Spirit could do that, no one could grieve the Holy Spirit.

#2; The sensation of receiving something is not the Holy Spirit when He is in us.

By the apostle John's line of discernment in testing the spirits 1 John 4:1 by knowing the Holy Spirit is in us 1 John 4:4 and anything outside of us or coming over us later in life as a saved believer, is the spirit of the antichrist.

So why did God allow that which is not the Holy Spirit answer in that way when that brother was honoring the Holy Spirit? Why would God allow a strong delusion to occur?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Again. Do note that John 5:22 is citing a judgment we should not play around with. I believe that is why God allowed that phenomenon to happen because that is not how we are to honor the Father at all in worship.

Jesus told us how bad it will be in the last days as the way to come to God the Father will be broaden in Christian worship per Matthew 7:13-17 for why we are to narrow the way back to the Son in worship or else risk being left behind; Luke 13:24-30

Only the spirit of the antichrist would take the spotlight off of the Son in worship with their visitations and signs and wonders, but the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do that.

So that is why I believe it is an errant assumption to believe we are to practice the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son even though we all believe the Holy Spirit is God and of the Triune God. There are other spirits in the world wherefore why God the Father has all the invitations to come to Him by the only way of the Son in living that reconciled relationship with God so that sinners can turn away from their spirit worships and stay away from those spirits by only coming to the Son in worship in coming to God the Father by.​

Luke 4:8

Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only."

Romans 8:26-27

In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

The Holy Spirit is our helper and acts in accordance to the will of God. The will of God is that we worship Him .... if the Holy Spirit intercedes then our prayers will be worshiping God.

 

[TheBibleSays]

And where does it teach in the Bible for the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? I cannot find such a practice as taught in any of the epistles, even though the Holy Spirit is God.

Why? John 14:6 & John 10:1 & John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-13 is why.

When you look at the scripture for what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do, ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:14 ) then we, as led by the Spirit and scripture, cannot deviate from without being seen by the scripture as not led by the Spirit to do.

The consequence is running the risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes. Luke 13:24-30

I gave you Acts 13:1-4, and you ignore this. Here we have some who are "worshipping the Lord", and then we read that the Holy Spirit is the Person of the Godhead Who responds. Does this not tell you that this "Lord" is the Holy Spirit? Do you know what the word "woship" means? Just checking with an English dictionary online, defines it as, "to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God". So, are you suggesting that it is Biblically wrong to have strong feeling of "respect and admiration" for the Holy Spirit, Whom you also admit is God? Or, even to "honour and love and glorify", each Person in the Godhead. You are simply trying to argue for something that is not even possible to be in the Bible, because the Three Persons in the Godhead are COEQUAL. This term means that they are EQUAL in ALL that they are, and all that they receive.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a lesser "God" than the Father and Jesus?