worship service; jumping up and down

flaglady · Aug 2, 2006

Hang fire, sister - the book's undergoing a bit of a rewrite!! Should be ready in about 6-8 weeks.

I also recall that in Mark 12:30 our dear Lord Jesus is telling us to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength"

Also in Deut 6:5 is "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength"

Sounds an awful lot like moshing to me!!!!

talitha · Aug 2, 2006

"Do you know what children like to do, Caleb?" Father Hadane asked. "They like to dance."

Yes, they like to dance.

"Do you know what King Dvid did around the Ark of the Covenant, Caleb? He danced."

Caleb glanced up at the Father.

"Do you know why David danced around the Ark? Because he was in the presence of God. And in the presence of God, you sometimes become like a child We are keepers of the secret of the Ark, Caleb, and we like to dance."

The old man suddenly grinned mischievously. He scrambled to his feet and began todance a strange jig of some kind, across the rug and then back. A large smile lit his face.

Caleb stared in shock.

Hadane looked at him and winked. He seemed to double his efforts in a loud clear song. He waved to Caleb to stand.

"Dance with me! Dance with me!"

Unsure of what else to do, Caleb stood on shaky legs.

"Dance, Caleb! Dance like david."

The sight struck him as so odd that he let out a short laugh, which only seemed to encourage the old man more. He stopped suddenly and faced Caleb. The tent fell silent. A child yelped outside.

Father Hadane let his arms fall to his side. He began to bob up and down vertically. Then his bob became a bounce, straight upand down. Caleb felt his heart tighten.

"Do you remember this, Caleb?"

"Yes."

"Father Matthew used to dance like this. Do you remember?"

"Yes." Tears were flooding Caleb's eyes now,and Hadane was bouncing higher.

"You used to dance like this when you were a child. Do you remember, Caleb?"

"Yes. Yes." When he was a child, he had danced like this. Likea child in the kingdom. Like the oldman was dancing now. Across the stage for the whole world to see through their cameras.

"You must learn to dance again, Caleb. Dance with me!"

Caleb's kneed refused to move. He bobbed a little with fists clenched, furious and humiliated and wanting to jump as he had never jumped. But he could not dance. It seemed ludicrous to him. He was not that little boy any longer. He was a grown man, and for whatever reason, the idea of jumping like a fool horrified him. He was crying in earnest now.

Hadane threw his chin up and yelled at the ceiling, uncaring of Caleb's humiliation. "Come on, Caleb! Dance, dance, dance! Become a child with me. We are in the presence of God! We are in the presence of the Ark. Become like David!"

Caleb gritted his teeth and hopped once. Then twice. Then he groaned loudly and began to bounce.

The weight fell from his chest like a sack of grain cut loose.

from A Man Called Blessed, by Ted Dekker and Bill Bright

Glenda · Aug 2, 2006

Jillymac said:
Our new pastor's (18yr old) daughter got to lead worship on Sunday because the Worship leader was away. She kept saying "let's jump let's jump" and to be honest, I don't have a problem with people jumping, I did have a problem with her trying to say that this is how to worship. Our church is filled with many older people who don't have the ability to jump. She kept saying we should jump, we should walk around like this and it got me thinking...

Everyone has their own way of worshipping. Just because one is jumping and the other is raising their hands, or bowing down, or praying etc etc, there's no right or wrong way to worship, it's the heart that matters.

I know of quite a few people who think that when people aren't jumping etc they aren't worshipping in the "right" way. I think that is the wrong mind set.

I don't jump because holding a mic and jumping at the same time results in a few problems for me, my jeans fall down and my top comes up and trying to keep them all in the right place is too difficult - and then singing at the same time! it's just too hard!!

I certainly worship but i do it in my own style (i do move about), I know that this particular girl was trying to copy and create the atmosphere that happens in Hillsongs etc, but we all know it's not up to us to do that, our main task is to worship God, whatever happens after that is up to Him.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant!!

No need to be sorry Sweetie..

Everyone needs to worship as the Lord leads them.. whether that is dancing.. jumping.. kneeling.. being quiet in prayer.. being quiet because your body is there but your spirit is walking & talking with God..

We just need to respect the fact that God leads us to honor, praise & worship Him in different ways..

I was raised Catholic too.. my mother used to smack me if I looked around when I was little..

So it took me a long time to feel comfortable just to raise my hands or say Alleluia..

And when the Holy Spirit began speaking to me about Flag Worship, I sat on my hands & made excuses for much too long..

I started waving flags in the back of my church.. and dancing around the vestible.. but feared going to the front..

Then I went to Streams Ministies Summer Rain last August.. and they prayed freedom over us.. and I went to Open Heavens in Connecticut the next month, and they prayed boldness, freedom, & freedom from what man thinks..

And i talked to a woman who was waving flags there.. she said "you can't lead the battle from the back."

I came back to my church on fire for Jesus.. and I went up front to one corner & started waving and dancing (with the pastor's permission)

Other women began waving flags too.. telling me that i was an inspiration to them..

And then, I believe, that because of my obedience in this, God answered my prayer..

I had prayed for a Spirit-filled church where I would be free to worship as God leads.. and Alpha & Omega fits that to a tee..

I thank the Lord for my Pastors..

I thank the Lord for leading other like minded souls to this church..

I thank the Lord for His presence among us..

I thank the Lord for His favor..

I thank God for His resources..

I thank the Lord for every breath He gives me..

I thank the Lord for putting me together across the miles with my husband..

But most of all.. I thank You, I love You & worship You, Lord.. for who You are..

Glenda · Aug 2, 2006

talitha said:
"Do you know what children like to do, Caleb?" Father Hadane asked. "They like to dance."

Yes, they like to dance.

"Do you know what King Dvid did around the Ark of the Covenant, Caleb? He danced."

Caleb glanced up at the Father.

"Do you know why David danced around the Ark? Because he was in the presence of God. And in the presence of God, you sometimes become like a child We are keepers of the secret of the Ark, Caleb, and we like to dance."

The old man suddenly grinned mischievously. He scrambled to his feet and began todance a strange jig of some kind, across the rug and then back. A large smile lit his face.

Caleb stared in shock.

Hadane looked at him and winked. He seemed to double his efforts in a loud clear song. He waved to Caleb to stand.

"Dance with me! Dance with me!"

Unsure of what else to do, Caleb stood on shaky legs.

"Dance, Caleb! Dance like david."

The sight struck him as so odd that he let out a short laugh, which only seemed to encourage the old man more. He stopped suddenly and faced Caleb. The tent fell silent. A child yelped outside.

Father Hadane let his arms fall to his side. He began to bob up and down vertically. Then his bob became a bounce, straight upand down. Caleb felt his heart tighten.

"Do you remember this, Caleb?"

"Yes."

"Father Matthew used to dance like this. Do you remember?"

"Yes." Tears were flooding Caleb's eyes now,and Hadane was bouncing higher.

"You used to dance like this when you were a child. Do you remember, Caleb?"

"Yes. Yes." When he was a child, he had danced like this. Likea child in the kingdom. Like the oldman was dancing now. Across the stage for the whole world to see through their cameras.

"You must learn to dance again, Caleb. Dance with me!"

Caleb's kneed refused to move. He bobbed a little with fists clenched, furious and humiliated and wanting to jump as he had never jumped. But he could not dance. It seemed ludicrous to him. He was not that little boy any longer. He was a grown man, and for whatever reason, the idea of jumping like a fool horrified him. He was crying in earnest now.

Hadane threw his chin up and yelled at the ceiling, uncaring of Caleb's humiliation. "Come on, Caleb! Dance, dance, dance! Become a child with me. We are in the presence of God! We are in the presence of the Ark. Become like David!"

Caleb gritted his teeth and hopped once. Then twice. Then he groaned loudly and began to bounce.

The weight fell from his chest like a sack of grain cut loose.

from A Man Called Blessed, by Ted Dekker and Bill Bright

How beautiful..

Jillymac · Aug 2, 2006

GlendaJoanne said:
No need to be sorry Sweetie..

Everyone needs to worship as the Lord leads them.. whether that is dancing.. jumping.. kneeling.. being quiet in prayer.. being quiet because your body is there but your spirit is walking & talking with God..

We just need to respect the fact that God leads us to honor, praise & worship Him in different ways..

I was raised Catholic too.. my mother used to smack me if I looked around when I was little..

So it took me a long time to feel comfortable just to raise my hands or say Alleluia..

When i was younger it was drilled into us that we should raise our hands and I dont' know whether i was being rebellious or just plain embarassed that I always struggled to do that and just ended up refusing to.

Now i have no problem raising my hands - but it took me a long time to get to that place.

You're so right that everyone does worship in different ways and that's kinda nice i feel, we can all learn something from each other. We have the flag banners in our church and i remember being younger and gettin to wave them. I don't do that now but some of the kids do. I certainly can't stand still and worship but then i don't jump, it makes me feel uncomfortable and a bit self-conscious, i'd rather my focus be purely on God than worry about flashing belly to the congregation!!

probinson · Aug 2, 2006

Jillymac said:
Our new pastor's (18yr old) daughter got to lead worship on Sunday because the Worship leader was away. She kept saying "let's jump let's jump" and to be honest, I don't have a problem with people jumping, I did have a problem with her trying to say that this is how to worship. Our church is filled with many older people who don't have the ability to jump. She kept saying we should jump, we should walk around like this and it got me thinking...

Everyone has their own way of worshipping. Just because one is jumping and the other is raising their hands, or bowing down, or praying etc etc, there's no right or wrong way to worship, it's the heart that matters.

I know of quite a few people who think that when people aren't jumping etc they aren't worshipping in the "right" way. I think that is the wrong mind set.

I don't jump because holding a mic and jumping at the same time results in a few problems for me, my jeans fall down and my top comes up and trying to keep them all in the right place is too difficult - and then singing at the same time! it's just too hard!!

I certainly worship but i do it in my own style (i do move about), I know that this particular girl was trying to copy and create the atmosphere that happens in Hillsongs etc, but we all know it's not up to us to do that, our main task is to worship God, whatever happens after that is up to Him.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant!!

I lead praise and worship at my church, and one thing that I will not do is tell people to clap, jump, dance, whatever. We encourage people to worship freely. But we don't tell them how. That's not "free". That's "simon says".

Free worship is when you can feel free to jump and dance, sit quietly and meditate, shout "Hallelujah!", etc. all at the same time! It's not disorderly, because each person is worshipping God. They're not trying to impress the guy next to them or draw attention to themselves. They're simply worshipping God in their own way. Some do so quietly, some are louder than others, but everyone is just worshipping.

That's what I believe worship should be like. If I'm truly worshipping God quietly, it won't matter that the guy next to me is jumping up and down, because all of my focus will be on God.

Jillymac · Aug 2, 2006

probinson said:
I lead praise and worship at my church, and one thing that I will not do is tell people to clap, jump, dance, whatever. We encourage people to worship freely. But we don't tell them how. That's not "free". That's "simon says".

Free worship is when you can feel free to jump and dance, sit quietly and meditate, shout "Hallelujah!", etc. all at the same time! It's not disorderly, because each person is worshipping God. They're not trying to impress the guy next to them or draw attention to themselves. They're simply worshipping God in their own way. Some do so quietly, some are louder than others, but everyone is just worshipping.

That's what I believe worship should be like. If I'm truly worshipping God quietly, it won't matter that the guy next to me is jumping up and down, because all of my focus will be on God.

100% agree with you!! (wish certain peeps in our church knew that!)

Christina M · Aug 2, 2006

At my old AOG church, we had one guy who would jump up and down like a pogostick. Everyone stared at him, even the pastor! Many talked about "how weird" he was......

Within a year, and after our pastor had gone to Brownsville and was lit on fire himself, practically the whole church was on their feet a-bobbin'!

Some things that people think are strange or unbiblical are really only just out of their comfort zone.

Jillymac · Aug 2, 2006

I agree Christina, just because someone is doing something different doesn't mean that it's unbiblical at all!

We have the sweetest old lady, who will always get into the middle of the aisle and when the worship music is playing she does the funniest little dance, but she LOVES it, she really is truly worshipping God in her own wee style! It's like her top half and bottom half are totally disconnected from each other!

I don't have a problem with jumpin/dancing etc of any sort, my issue occurs when people try to manipulate others to do the same thing as they are because they feel that is the right way to do worship and like probinson so eloquently put it everyone should be allowed to worship "freely"

Tamara224 · Aug 2, 2006

janny108 said:
Has anyone heard of church where in worship some people are jumping up and down? The first time I saw that in church, it made me think people were on pogo sticks...! LOL
Jan

I've seen it but not many times, it has yet to take hold in my part of the world (we're always a bit behind). It strikes me as a fad. I'm not going to judge anyone or say they shouldn't do it or anything like that but personally, I think it's probably hype to get people worked up into an emotional state...get the adrenaline flowing and what not. I've seen several such fads come and go, especially amongst youth groups. That is not to say that it isn't a genuine act of praise by the majority of people doing it.

It just strikes me as odd that so many people would be moved to "dance" in that manner to praise God. (I use the word "dance" very loosely because I honestly don't consider jumping up and down to be dancing... but that's jmo). I think it's one of those things that probably started as a spontaneous act of worship in one place, at one time, someone saw it and took to their home church and it then moved along to all the other charismatic churches and it gets touted as the 'newest' move of God. It always has to be something new and different. After a while, the jumping will get old and worn and everyone will move on to the next fad.

FallingWaters · Aug 2, 2006

Jillymac said:
Our new pastor's (18yr old) daughter got to lead worship on Sunday because the Worship leader was away. She kept saying "let's jump let's jump" and to be honest, I don't have a problem with people jumping, I did have a problem with her trying to say that this is how to worship. Our church is filled with many older people who don't have the ability to jump. She kept saying we should jump, we should walk around like this and it got me thinking...

Everyone has their own way of worshipping. Just because one is jumping and the other is raising their hands, or bowing down, or praying etc etc, there's no right or wrong way to worship, it's the heart that matters.

I know of quite a few people who think that when people aren't jumping etc they aren't worshipping in the "right" way. I think that is the wrong mind set.

I don't jump because holding a mic and jumping at the same time results in a few problems for me, my jeans fall down and my top comes up and trying to keep them all in the right place is too difficult - and then singing at the same time! it's just too hard!!

I certainly worship but i do it in my own style (i do move about), I know that this particular girl was trying to copy and create the atmosphere that happens in Hillsongs etc, but we all know it's not up to us to do that, our main task is to worship God, whatever happens after that is up to Him.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant!!

You're right... some people CANNOT do what the worship leader asks them to do.

However, If a person CAN do what the worship leader is asking, then they should.

Why should they? When I was trained (at three different international worship symposiums) as a worship minister, I was taught that the Holy Spirit leads the worship leader. The worship leader communicates that to the congregation. The congregation follows the worship leader, and the worship leader leads them into the Holy of Holies. It behooves me as a member of the congregation to participate in whatever the Holy Spirit is leading the worship leader to do.

Of course, that's the ideal and sometimes we fall short of that.

Tamara224 · Aug 2, 2006

FallingWaters said:
You're right... some people CANNOT do what the worship leader asks them to do.

However, If a person CAN do what the worship leader is asking, then they should.

Why should they? When I was trained (at three different international worship symposiums) as a worship minister, I was taught that the Holy Spirit leads the worship leader. The worship leader communicates that to the congregation. The congregation follows the worship leader, and the worship leader leads them into the Holy of Holies. It behooves me as a member of the congregation to participate in whatever the Holy Spirit is leading the worship leader to do.

Of course, that's the ideal and sometimes we fall short of that.

What if the worship leader asks them to do something they know isn't from the Holy Spirit?

And what Biblical support is there for the idea that the Holy Spirit communicates only with the worship leader or that the worship leader leads people into the Holy of Holies?

FallingWaters · Aug 2, 2006

GlendaJoanne said:
If you knew where some of us "emotional worshipers" have been.. what He has brought us through.. how He alone has provided for us.. then you might have just an iota of why we get a bit "emotional" in our praise & worship of Almighty God..

Luke 7:44 "Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

.

FireOfGod · Aug 2, 2006

MikeMcK said:
And if God says that He doesn't want it that way, you'll just do it whatever way you want and tell yourself that that's what God wants.

Who are you to tell me what orderly is in the first place? Tell me... How can I worship at your church if I were to go?

What if you're wrong? If I'm wrong, then I'm just making a fool of myself. If you're wrong, you may be missing out on a lot by putting yourself in a box.

probinson · Aug 2, 2006

FallingWaters said:
You're right... some people CANNOT do what the worship leader asks them to do.

However, If a person CAN do what the worship leader is asking, then they should.

Why should they? When I was trained (at three different international worship symposiums) as a worship minister, I was taught that the Holy Spirit leads the worship leader. The worship leader communicates that to the congregation. The congregation follows the worship leader, and the worship leader leads them into the Holy of Holies. It behooves me as a member of the congregation to participate in whatever the Holy Spirit is leading the worship leader to do.

Of course, that's the ideal and sometimes we fall short of that.

I disagree. As a worship "leader", I want people following God, not me.

MikeMcK · Aug 2, 2006

FireOfGod said:
What if you're wrong?

God's word is infallible.

If I'm wrong, then I'm just making a fool of myself. If you're wrong, you may be missing out on a lot by putting yourself in a box.

If following God's word means putting myself in a box, then that is the box He has called His people to be in.

Glenda · Aug 2, 2006

FireOfGod said:
What if you're wrong? If I'm wrong, then I'm just making a fool of myself. If you're wrong, you may be missing out on a lot by putting yourself in a box.

Or by trying to put GOD in a box!

But that doesn't work very well.. He is much too big..

probinson · Aug 2, 2006

MikeMcK said:
God's word is infallible.

God's Word IS infallible.

MikeMcK is not.

I've yet to see a single scripture to support your opinion.

FireOfGod · Aug 2, 2006

MikeMcK said:
Following God's word is not "putting God in a box".

Is it just me or has anyone else here ever noticed that the only people who use this phrase are those who are using it to excuse some Unbiblical behavior or another?

Since when are you God?

probinson · Aug 2, 2006

MikeMcK said:
Following God's word is not "putting God in a box".

Is it just me or has anyone else here ever noticed that the only people who use this phrase are those who are using it to excuse some Unbiblical behavior or another?

Actually, if you would have read what FoG wrote, you'd see she said you're putting YOURSELF in a box, not God.

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