Worldview...Everyone Has One

[jpcedotal]

Thkx for posting to this thread. I was hoping we could remain civil despite the fact that we have some very different views on things. We did and I appreciate it.

One point that that I completely agree with, especially when it comes to Christians today.

We need to become more educated in other's worldviews. We need to understand where others who do not believe the way we believe are coming from. What makes atheism or any non-Christian belief so inviting? What prejudices do people have to not even give Jesus a chance? Why does higher education and science try so hard to disprove God? We need to learn at least the main points of beliefs like evolution in order to discuss the topic intelligently without reverting back to just "The Bible says so." That ultimately turns more people away from Christianity than to bring more into it.

We must learn to start from the secular side and work our way out and maybe a couple here and there wil walk out with us.

K, I am done preaching. That's again for yall's input.

 

[Danhalen]

We need to become more educated in other's worldviews. We need to understand where others who do not believe the way we believe are coming from. What makes atheism or any non-Christian belief so inviting? What prejudices do people have to not even give Jesus a chance? Why does higher education and science try so hard to disprove God? We need to learn at least the main points of beliefs like evolution in order to discuss the topic intelligently without reverting back to just "The Bible says so." That ultimately turns more people away from Christianity than to bring more into it.

We must learn to start from the secular side and work our way out and maybe a couple here and there wil walk out with us.

I'd like to give you some feedback on this.

On the first two sentences: excellent attitude to take. I would extend your observation to all people--not just Christians. I am not sure it is possible to completely understand what motivates another person to hold his or beliefs, but the attempt to understand is of utmost importance if we are to co-exist. I applaud you for understanding this and wishing it upon yourself and others like you.

As for what makes atheism so inviting: I don't think atheism is an inviting position to hold. I am an atheist because I have no choice in the matter, much like you are a theist because you have no choice in the matter. I do not believe atheism or theism are worldviews; they are observations of the world. I do think more specified belief systems within atheism and theism are worldviews. These specific belief systems are inviting because they make sense of our observations.

I disagree that academia and the world of science are trying to disprove the existence of God. There are academics who wish to disprove God's existence, and there are others who wish to prove it. Science is completely silent on the existence of God.

My last bit of feedback deals with what it seems your motivation might be. You seem to be attempting this dialogue in the hope that someone may turn to God as a result. I think this as a motivation will fail you. If you talk to me because you are genuinely interested in my point of view then I am more likely to think favorably of you and your beliefs. But if I think you have an agenda--no matter how well intentioned--I will eye you and your beliefs with suspicion.

I thought you might appreciate this last bit I'm going to share with you. Tonight I am going to a Bible study group. I will be with Christians in this Bible study, and I will be trying to read the Bible as a Christian. I hope to walk away with a finer appreciation of Christianity at the end of the day.

 

[Penumbra]

We need to become more educated in other's worldviews. We need to understand where others who do not believe the way we believe are coming from. What makes atheism or any non-Christian belief so inviting? What prejudices do people have to not even give Jesus a chance? Why does higher education and science try so hard to disprove God? We need to learn at least the main points of beliefs like evolution in order to discuss the topic intelligently without reverting back to just "The Bible says so." That ultimately turns more people away from Christianity than to bring more into it.

I think in some ways you're looking at it strictly from one single point of view.

-For instance, you ask what is inviting about non-Christian belief, but it would also be helpful to consider it from someone else's shoes and ask what about Christianity would be inviting or not inviting to someone who is not Christian.

-You automatically assume that people have prejudices if they aren't giving Jesus a chance, yet many people were once Christian and are no longer. They've given Jesus a chance. Ask yourself what prejudices you have if you're not giving Siddhartha Gautama or Krishna a chance.

-You ask why science tries to disprove god, yet that's not the case. They don't include god because he doesn't fit within what has been discovered. For centuries western science included god (in fact science was often sponsored by churches), until it found that the answers and facts significantly deviated from doctrine. Science is the study of this universe using an objective method, and unless an objective method can be provided to research deities, they aren't included. This has been attempted a few times with studies on prayer and such.

-Lyn

 

[jpcedotal]

I agree with a lot of the last two posts. Yes, from a secular view I guess I do have a hidden agenda.

I want everyone I come in contact with to open his/her minds up to Christ on the Cross and what that really means not to just Christians but the "Lost" as well. When I first became a Christian I wanted to tote a sword and shield and defend Christianity by attacking the "naturalists" on every front. Now, over time and seeing that that tactic was pushing away everyone but Christians, I knew that I had to take a step back.

I am not here to save anyone, only Christ can do that. I just have a deep emotional connection (not pity or sympathy, but more like a heart hurt) with folks that will go through their entire lives and rebuke Christ (not the Christians themselves, but Jesus) then go to Hell and be in torment forever.

Yeah I know the arguement. I am just saying what is worse:

Me going throughout my whole life believing completely in God and Jesus Chirst and dying and finding out that it was wrong or even just dying...the end.

or

You, going throughout life rebuking God, dying and finding out that there is a Hell and you are condemned to spend eternity in it....never getting a second chance.

Just from a secular view, it would seem to be worth at least giving God a legitimate shot....human beings are not the most intelligent, advanced beings in the universe (Aliens are fiction in my opinion so they don't count). To me, that's the easiest concept to grasp and it is the first step in searching for God.

 

[quatona]

I am not here to save anyone, only Christ can do that. I just have a deep emotional connection (not pity or sympathy, but more like a heart hurt) with folks that will go through their entire lives and rebuke Christ (not the Christians themselves, but Jesus) then go to Hell and be in torment forever.

Maybe you should have a word with your god about this.

Me going throughout my whole life believing completely in God and Jesus Chirst and dying and finding out that it was wrong or even just dying...the end.

or

You, going throughout life rebuking God, dying and finding out that there is a Hell and you are condemned to spend eternity in it....never getting a second chance.

Ah, Pascal´s Wager.

Just from a secular view, it would seem to be worth at least giving God a legitimate shot....

You are aware that there are plenty of allegedly existing gods that their believers want us to give them a legitimate shot, aren´t you?
You are aware that there are plenty of allegedly existing gods that their believers want you to given them a legitimate shot, aren´t you?

human beings are not the most intelligent, advanced beings in the universe

Says who?
Let alone that we would have to define standards for "intelligent, advanced beings" in order to even consider this statement meaningfully.

(Aliens are fiction in my opinion so they don't count).

Well, then you can be expected to understand this position: "Gods are fiction in my opinion so they don´t count."

 

[quatona]

We need to become more educated in other's worldviews. We need to understand where others who do not believe the way we believe are coming from.

What makes atheism or any non-Christian belief so inviting?

Well, as for atheism: I don´t think it is particularly inviting. Everything that merely rejects the existence of something is neither inviting nor significant to the rejecters.
My lack of belief in biblegod may be significant to you, but it isn´t to me. Just like my lack of belief in Allah or Zeus is significant neither to you nor to me.
Just like your lack of belief in aliens is so insignificant to you that you don´t even "give them a chance" and simply dismiss this idea and be done with it.

On another note: If the important question is "What makes a religion inviting" it might be a good idea to start with telling us what makes Christianity so inviting.
Pascal´s Wager with its reference to a tormenting god certainly doesn´t come across as inviting.

What prejudices do people have to not even give Jesus a chance?

What makes you think people haven´t given "Jesus a chance"?

Why does higher education and science try so hard to disprove God?

You are mistaken here. Science doesn´t try to disprove god. Exceptional claims and supposedly "supernatural" phenomena are not the field of science, to begin with.

We need to learn at least the main points of beliefs like evolution in order to discuss the topic intelligently without reverting back to just "The Bible says so."

I think you need to get a basic grasp on what science and the scientific method is and is not, in the first place.

We must learn to start from the secular side and work our way out and maybe a couple here and there wil walk out with us.

Sounds ok to me.

 

[CoderHead]

Yeah I know the arguement. I am just saying what is worse:

Ahh, glad you could join the conversation, Pascal! It's been a while.

If you believe in God your whole life and waste your time praying, censoring your "dirty" thoughts, and hampering your understanding of life because you've got your nose stuck in the Bible, what good did any of that do you when you die and there's no God?

What will you do if you go through life rebuking Vishnu, die and find out that there is a hell and you are condemned to spend eternity in it....never getting a second chance?

We can do this all day.