World War II: Could Germany win?

[Cooch]

What seems little known - I'm a 71 year old Brit and have only learnt it quite recently - is that WWI was engineered by us, the UK, to thwart the economic alliance the Germans and the Russians had been planning.

Somebody has fed you a load of codswallop old son.

 

[Cooch]

Stalin could barely believe that Operation Barbarossa was happening, he thought relations with Germany were peachy. While the potential for an unprovoked Soviet invasion was there, Stalin would be very unlikely to act upon it.

The evidence appears tyo be that both considered war to be inevitable, and the peace between them nothing more than temporary.

Hitler's long-term strategy was to conquer Europe - including a large part of Russia, and to use the manpower and resources that would enable him to build a navy capable of dealing with the Royal Navy and the USN so that he could reconsitute Germany as an imperial power with a worldwide empire, not merely a land-based European power.

The English put the first spoke in his wheel by refusing to talk peace in the west, thus requiring Germany to keep far greater forces in France than would otherwise have been the case, and the Russians refused to surrender, and would not have done so even were Moscow captured.

Hitler believed that German " will to victory" would compensate for any lack in men and materiel. His mistake was in thinking that no-one else had a similar will.

 

[BjarniBoyNR2]

Well yes they would have won. Look at their power and allies in Europe: They were allied with the fascist Spanish goverment, Mussolinis Italian fascist regime and the had annexed most of France and most of Europe. They also had conquered a vast amount of territory in N-Africa (thanks to the desert fox, Erwin Rommel). But after the assasination attempt on Hitler he became delusional like Stalin and had so-called ''imaginary enemies'' hence Hitler executed many of his top officers and generals suspecting them. Hitler also made a fault allying himself with Japan because Japan didn't help The Nazis any in Europe but were busy in their own personal war against US in The Pacific. I think that Hitler either should have finished his war before invading and betraying USSR or making peace with the west and then attacking USSR together, well frankly because Britain and US would have chosen an Nazi regime over a communist one. But it is a fact that Hitlers war against USSR was inevitable since Hitler hated everything about communism.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Attacking Russia was a huge mistake...however, Hitler becoming paranoid and canning some of his best military officers/strategists would be a big part of his failure as well.

 

[Gracchus]

If they hadn't attacked Russia, if the U.S. had not come in, if Rhoem hadn't been homosexual, if Churchill had been a Nazi, ... if ... if ... maybe ... maybe ...

 

[Cooch]

But after the assasination attempt on Hitler he became delusional like Stalin and had so-called ''imaginary enemies''

Hitler had real enemies dating back to the early 30s. Even before he came to power. He also had "imaginary" enemies back that far, too.

The executions were a waste of talent, but it wasn't what lost him the war. Just a symptom of the mania that got him into a losing war in the first place.

I think that Hitler either should have finished his war before invading and betraying USSR or making peace with the west and then attacking USSR together, well frankly because Britain and US would have chosen an Nazi regime over a communist one..

It takes two to make a peace. Hitler's planning came undone partly when the British refused to make peace. War with Russia was inevitable - as you say and because they were a major threat to German security and imperial plans - so a long enough delay to deal with Britain first also permitted the Soviets to build up their army. Time was against Hitler in this case, and he was condemned to fighting a war on two fronts from the moment that Britain said "No Deal".

The US would not have allied with Germany against Russia because the Russians were not - at that time - a threat to either nation. On the contrary, it is arguable that war between Germany and the US became inevitable as soon at Britain refused to make peace and the Germans attempted a naval blockade. The US has never taken lightly any attempts to militarily restrict their right to trade, and the trade with England was important to them.

The German long-term strategy *might* have worked had all their opponents done as Hitler expected. However the adage that no plan long survives contact with the enemy, proved true yet again. Maybe Hitler's greatest failing was in underestimating is opponents. He thought that the British would fold, that their Empire would disintegrate, that the Russians would collapse and that the Americans were insufficiently warlike.

 

[paul becke]

Somebody has fed you a load of codswallop old son.

Read this and come back to me, Gramps.

Incidentally, Tarpley cites the Grand Orient Lodge of the Freemasons as the possible prime movers behind WWI and the false-flag assassination of the Grand Duke:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2005/07/317436.pdf

He also points out that even the Gun Powder Plot was a false-flag op.

 

[paul becke]

The evidence appears tyo be that both considered war to be inevitable, and the peace between them nothing more than temporary.

Hitler's long-term strategy was to conquer Europe - including a large part of Russia, and to use the manpower and resources that would enable him to build a navy capable of dealing with the Royal Navy and the USN so that he could reconsitute Germany as an imperial power with a worldwide empire, not merely a land-based European power.

The English put the first spoke in his wheel by refusing to talk peace in the west, thus requiring Germany to keep far greater forces in France than would otherwise have been the case, and the Russians refused to surrender, and would not have done so even were Moscow captured.

Hitler believed that German " will to victory" would compensate for any lack in men and materiel. His mistake was in thinking that no-one else had a similar will.

Reviewing a book by Matthew Norman, Max Davidson wrote:

"Why the Nazis didn't play cricket."

The Fuhrer earns inclusion for his decidedly sinister attitude to cricket. He apparently watched some English ex-pats playing cricket in Germany in 1923, asked to have the rules explained to him, then pronounced the game, 'insufficiently violent for German fascists.'

As Norman remarks in a typically elegant aside: He was never a chap easily imagined daydreaming at deep fine leg or taking four hours to score 23 on a flat wicket."

 

[BjarniBoyNR2]

Hitler had real enemies dating back to the early 30s. Even before he came to power. He also had "imaginary" enemies back that far, too.

The executions were a waste of talent, but it wasn't what lost him the war. Just a symptom of the mania that got him into a losing war in the first place.



It takes two to make a peace. Hitler's planning came undone partly when the British refused to make peace. War with Russia was inevitable - as you say and because they were a major threat to German security and imperial plans - so a long enough delay to deal with Britain first also permitted the Soviets to build up their army. Time was against Hitler in this case, and he was condemned to fighting a war on two fronts from the moment that Britain said "No Deal".

The US would not have allied with Germany against Russia because the Russians were not - at that time - a threat to either nation. On the contrary, it is arguable that war between Germany and the US became inevitable as soon at Britain refused to make peace and the Germans attempted a naval blockade. The US has never taken lightly any attempts to militarily restrict their right to trade, and the trade with England was important to them.

The German long-term strategy *might* have worked had all their opponents done as Hitler expected. However the adage that no plan long survives contact with the enemy, proved true yet again. Maybe Hitler's greatest failing was in underestimating is opponents. He thought that the British would fold, that their Empire would disintegrate, that the Russians would collapse and that the Americans were insufficiently warlike.

Hitlers doctor also gave him medical cocaine for his stress, at that time the side effects were unknown. That would explain his mania and carelessness at the final years of the war. Hitler was too eager to invade Soviet Russia, he did it too early and invaded during winter. Many of his top officials and generals advised him not to attack so soon and especially not during winter. During the final years of the war many top officials would plot against Hitler, including Erwin Rommel, since they thought it was an inevitable fact that Nazi Germany would lose the war if Hitler would still be in charge.

Hitler didn't want to make peace, Rudolf Hess flew on his own to make peace. Churchill wrote after the war that he never even thought of making peace during the war but he said that he should have made peace with Germany instead of making an alliance with USSR.

I think that USSR wouldn't have attacked Germany, since Stalin would rather ally himself with the Nazis (Stalin also hated and persecuted jews) than with the capitalist pigs as he called.

I think that US wouldn't have gone to war against Germany if they weren't attacked first, Roosevelt wanted anything else except going to war. Yes Hitler underestimated his enemies which was very stupid (he even underestimated the Russian winter) The Luftwaffen which was the most sophisticated and powerful air force, lost to the US air force. Hitler thought it would be a piece of cake hence forth he didn't unleash the full might of the Luftwaffen at once.

 

[Cooch]

Hitlers doctor also gave him medical cocaine for his stress, at that time the side effects were unknown. That would explain his mania and carelessness at the final years of the war.

How then, do you explain his over-confidence, and his conviction that (to use the most obvious example) that the Jews were plotting against him... even before the war. "Mein Kampf" is hardly the work of a sober, ratonal, balanced man.

Hitler was too eager to invade Soviet Russia, he did it too early and invaded during winter.

Incorrect.
Operation Barbarossa was launched on the 22nd of June. Rather than being early, it was late, being originally planned for the 15th of May. The Russians believed that war was inevitable (Stalin speech 5th May 1941) They were not ready in 1941 (which Hitler knew) but were making significant attempts to improve their forces. Waiting another year or two had significant costs for Germany while permitting the Soviets to be far more prepared.

Hitler didn't want to make peace, . Churchill wrote after the war that he never even thought of making peace during the war but he said that he should have made peace with Germany instead of making an alliance with USSR.

Incorrect.
Hitler knew that he did not have the naval power to counter the Royal Navy. His long-term plan was to build up his resources as a continental power and apply them to building a navy that would be able to succesfully oppose the RN and the USN. The lack of a truce with Britain required him to station additional divisions in France that proved to have been badly needed on the Eastern Front. Any truce would have been temporary from Hitler's POV, but there is little doubt that the British determination to fight on was both unexpected and disappointing to Hitler.

As for the supposed change of heart by Churchill, I'd have to see a direct quote to believe it. Having read his histories, there is nothing in them to indicate that he thought a peace with Hitlker to have been possible.

I think that USSR wouldn't have attacked Germany, since Stalin would rather ally himself with the Nazis .

Obviously incorrect. Stalin was well aware that Hitler's view of the greater Germany included a large part of Russia. He believed that war was inevitable, and regarded the pact between the two countries as a tactic to delay the war until the Red Army was better prepared.

I think that US wouldn't have gone to war against Germany if they weren't attacked first, Roosevelt wanted anything else except going to war.

That is not a correct understanding of Roosevelt's attitude towards the war, nor is it a correct understanding of the attitude of the US population, which was becoming less pacific even before Pearl Harbour. As I pointed out, the US has a history of fiercely resenting attempts to restrict their trade by force of arms... Their important and continued trade with Britain made such conflict inevitable as soon as Germany attempted to blockade Britain.

Yes Hitler underestimated his enemies which was very stupid (he even underestimated the Russian winter) The Luftwaffen which was the most sophisticated and powerful air force, lost to the US air force. Hitler thought it would be a piece of cake hence forth he didn't unleash the full might of the Luftwaffen at once.

Oh Please!
The Germans expected to winter in Moscow..

The Luftwaffe was not spectaularly better than any other airforce. Not only did they lose the battle of Britain, but they were unable to prevent the Allies from bombing Germany to an extent far beyond their own attacks on Britain. They didn't even have heavt strategic bombers in any numbers. At the beginning of the war, they had an excellent tactical airforce with which to support their army, but it proved insufficient to dominate and destroy Britain's airspace and industrial capacity. As the war progressed, the Allies deployed superior aircraft in numbers that the Luftwaffe could not match.

 

[Cooch]

Read this and come back to me, Gramps.

.

Ah,,, I see.

You're a "truther"....

No point arguing with you then..... <sigh>

 

[BjarniBoyNR2]

How then, do you explain his over-confidence, and his conviction that (to use the most obvious example) that the Jews were plotting against him... even before the war. "Mein Kampf" is hardly the work of a sober, ratonal, balanced man.


Incorrect.
Operation Barbarossa was launched on the 22nd of June. Rather than being early, it was late, being originally planned for the 15th of May. The Russians believed that war was inevitable (Stalin speech 5th May 1941) They were not ready in 1941 (which Hitler knew) but were making significant attempts to improve their forces. Waiting another year or two had significant costs for Germany while permitting the Soviets to be far more prepared.



Incorrect.
Hitler knew that he did not have the naval power to counter the Royal Navy. His long-term plan was to build up his resources as a continental power and apply them to building a navy that would be able to succesfully oppose the RN and the USN. The lack of a truce with Britain required him to station additional divisions in France that proved to have been badly needed on the Eastern Front. Any truce would have been temporary from Hitler's POV, but there is little doubt that the British determination to fight on was both unexpected and disappointing to Hitler.

As for the supposed change of heart by Churchill, I'd have to see a direct quote to believe it. Having read his histories, there is nothing in them to indicate that he thought a peace with Hitlker to have been possible.



Obviously incorrect. Stalin was well aware that Hitler's view of the greater Germany included a large part of Russia. He believed that war was inevitable, and regarded the pact between the two countries as a tactic to delay the war until the Red Army was better prepared.



That is not a correct understanding of Roosevelt's attitude towards the war, nor is it a correct understanding of the attitude of the US population, which was becoming less pacific even before Pearl Harbour. As I pointed out, the US has a history of fiercely resenting attempts to restrict their trade by force of arms... Their important and continued trade with Britain made such conflict inevitable as soon as Germany attempted to blockade Britain.




Oh Please!
The Germans expected to winter in Moscow..

The Luftwaffe was not spectaularly better than any other airforce. Not only did they lose the battle of Britain, but they were unable to prevent the Allies from bombing Germany to an extent far beyond their own attacks on Britain. They didn't even have heavt strategic bombers in any numbers. At the beginning of the war, they had an excellent tactical airforce with which to support their army, but it proved insufficient to dominate and destroy Britain's airspace and industrial capacity. As the war progressed, the Allies deployed superior aircraft in numbers that the Luftwaffe could not match.

Hitler wanted to have more time to prepare before attacking the USSR. His original plans did not really include war in the west. Britain and France had appeased Germany up to this point and Hitler did not think those countries had the stomach for war. France was weak after WW I and Hitler didn't expect Chamberlain to declare war. Chamberlain was a good peace-time prime-minister, but due to the war and his own ill health Winston Churchill took over and became a successful and popular war-time prime-minister.

France and Britain were scared of Soviet Russia, they didn't even declare war on the Soviets- even though they were allies of Hitler at that time and also attacked Poland in 1939.



Yes you are right they attacked during summer, it was merely a mistake what I said. It is a long time since I have read about WW II history and I wasn't sure about when exactly he attacked, but thanks for pointing the mistake out to me
Stalin didn't expect the attack so soon, he was shocked. Yes he suspected his attack and tensions between them were growing but Stalin at least thought Hitler would invade after he had dealt with the west.



Hitler's invasion failed because of many things.
Stalin made use of the Scotched Earth policy just as it had been used before against Napoleon. With the harsh weather changes, and the burning of any usable supplies, the German army quickly began to die off. This allowed Russia to begin pushing back, and splitting up the German forces across several borders.
Hitler's plans were to control Russia by the Fall, this clearly shows he underestimated both The Russian Winter and The Soviets army. He failed at that and then the German Army was caught unprepared for the cold Russian Winter, the tanks didn't have much fuel and his supplies didn't last long.
I found reliable information saying that the russian winter of that time was one of the coldest winter of the century, if not the coldest. Although I am not completely sure about that.


It wasn't that Stalins army was any better than Hitlers, it was just much larger. Soviets were so many and most of them were unexperienced, Stalin ordered anyone that would retreat to be shot on sight.
The fact that Stalin had just purged the Red Army meant that it had few senior officers who actually understood how to fight a war.
The Red Army was the largest but it was far from being the best.



Hitler was an Anglophile, he loved Britain and the British people. He even tried to get into Art School in Liverpool, but was unsuccessful.
Hitler admired the British Empire and wanted to be part of it.
He knew that to own a quarter of the globe as Britain did, Britain had to be a very powerful nation. He wasn't wrong.
He wanted to be Britain's ally and not her enemy. When Britain declared war on Germany in September 1939, Hitler shut himself away for three whole days and was seen by no one.
He was also obsessed by the idea that Germany lost WW I because it had failed to form an adequate prewar alliance with the UK and with Italy. He managed of course to get Fascist Italy on his side but could not understand why his favourite foreign policy expert, Ribbentrop, whom he made ambassador in London, could not get the Brits on side.



Luftwaffe was one of the strongest, most doctrinally advanced, and most battle-experienced air forces in the world. It became an essential component in the German military campaigns. Operating in support of ground forces, it helped the German armies to conquer the bulk of the European continent in a series of short and decisive campaigns in the first nine months of the war. It first loss were against the Royal Air Force during the battle of Britain. There are two reasons why his attack failed. A minor reason was the fact that due to fuel limitations, German fighters could only protect the bombers for a limited time.

The major reason was a strategic error:
At the beginning of the Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe concentrated on attacking the British air fields. Had the Germans kept after the air fileds for another three weeks or so, the British Fighter Command would have been knocked out of the war. Instead, fortunately, Hitler had one of his bright ideas. He ordered the Luftwaffe to begin attacking British cities, particularly London, with the intention of terrorising the British people into submission. That failed, and with their airfields secure, the British air force's tactical advantages began to tell and Germany began losing more planes than they could afford. Eventually Hitler convinced himself that Britain didn't really matter and began concentrating his resources for the invasion of Russia.



I recommend reading the book "Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World" by Patrick J.
Buchanan
There he states that Churchill regreted the decision of allying himself with Stalin against Hitler. He didn't say he wanted to ally himself with Hitler, Churchill said that he would have chosen Hitler rather than Stalin if he would have known the aftermath.
Buchanan also argues that if the rest of the world had stayed out of WWII until Hitler had already begun to clash with Stalin, then the war would have ended with fascism and communism completely destroyed with democracy becoming dominant.
It is a very good book and It's interesting thinking about what would have happened if The West didn't intervene, do you think that Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia would have destroyed each other?



Thank you for the conversation on this matter, it has been fun and educating.

 

[General Mung Beans]

Not with any Germany recognizably National Socialist. Hitler's ideology demanded he invade the USSR.

 

[paul becke]

It seems highly lilkely that another crucial, factor in our winning the Battle of Britain - apart from the insane bravery of the Polish pilots - was the gift by the Poles of the German Enigma encoding machine, which enabled us to assign planes to defend against attacking formations, the most economically, i.e. to optimal advantage.

It is unclear how much the British intercepts of the Enigma cipher, used for high-security German radio communications, affected the battle. Ultra, the information obtained from Enigma intercepts, gave the highest echelons of the British command a view of German intentions. According to F. W. Winterbotham, who was the senior Air Staff representative in the Secret Intelligence Service,[128] Ultra helped establish the strength and composition of the Luftwaffe's formations, the aims of the commanders[129] and provided early warning of some raids.[130] In early August it was decided that a small unit would be set up at Fighter Command headquarters (Stanmore), which would process the flow of information from Bletchley and provide Dowding only with the most essential Ultra material; thus the Air Ministry did not have to send a continual flow of information to Stanmore, preserving secrecy, and Dowding was not inundated with non-essential information. Keith Park and his controllers were also told about Ultra.[131] In a further attempt to camouflage the existence of Ultra Dowding created a unit called 421 Flight. This unit (which later became 91 Squadron), was equipped with Hurricanes and Spitfires and sent out aircraft to search for and report Luftwaffe formations approaching England.[132] In addition the radio listening service (known as Y Service), monitoring the patterns of Luftwaffe radio traffic, contributed considerably to the early warning of raids.

See the Wiki article linked below. I don't know how its author expected to be able to actually quantify its contribution. It was clearly massive, the 'crown jewels' of the code-breaking HQ at Bletchley Park.

Battle of Britain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_Park

.. in which Bletchley Park's contribution is described as critical to the Allied success.

 

[Cooch]

Hitler wanted to have more time to prepare before attacking the USSR. .

No. As said before, delaying the attack on the USSR for another 12 months would have given the Reds time to prepare. Germany could not afford that.

His original plans did not really include war in the west.

No. He had long planned war with France. He merely underestimated British resolve.

Stalin didn't expect the attack so soon, he was shocked. Yes he suspected his attack and tensions between them were growing but Stalin at least thought Hitler would invade after he had dealt with the west.

.... and Stalin's pact with Hitler was aimed at delaying the war that he considered inevitable until he had built the Red Army up to a point that it was ready. Stalin expected war, just hoped that it would be delayed.

Hitler was an Anglophile, he loved Britain and the British people.

An exaggeration. He respected them as another race similar to his own Aryan Germans.

Hitler admired the British Empire and wanted to be part of it.

No.
He wanted an overseas empire of his own comparable to that of Britain's
He recognised the extent to which the empire's resources and Britain's maritime power made that nation strong.
He wanted to copy that, and planned to use the resources of Europe to build a navy that would match the strength of both the Royal and US navies... so that his overseas ambitions could not be thwarted.

His vision of the German people as a "Master Race" could not come to fruition while they had no world-spanning empire or the ability to project power overseas.

A minor reason was the fact that due to fuel limitations, German fighters could only protect the bombers for a limited time.

That is not a "minor" reason in anybody's language. Nor is it guaranteed that Fighter Command would have been "knocked out of the war". What is far more probable is that the majority of squadron would have been withdrawn to the west of England. This would have rendered the defence of the cities in southern and eastern England far less effective, but it doesn't mean that the British would have been left without a fighter force or been forced to surrender.

You forget that the Luftwaffe was not set up to be a heavy, strategic airforce. It excelled (for its time) as a tactical airforce supporting ground units, but at no time did it have the heavy bombing capacity later possessed by the RAF and USAF later in the war.

 

[Cooch]

I recommend reading the book "Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World" by Patrick J.
Buchanan

.

On my part, I would suggest that you read something with more credibility.

Buchanan is not a serious historian, but a journalist who gets most of his "history" from secondary sources. Revisionist history and Hitler-apologetics may be popular amongst Anglophobes and isolationists, but it is not the kind of bias that leads to dispassionate analysis of material in context.

Kindly..... Peter

 

[lismore]

Could Germany win?

There was too much resistance to the Nazis within Germany, too many Germans didn't want Hitler to win the war. Even his intelligence Chief Canaris was actively plotting against him, passing military secrets to the Allies and had a dossier to be used at Hitler's trial.

 

[Bethesda]

Hitler wanted to have more time to prepare before attacking the USSR. His original plans did not really include war in the west. Britain and France had appeased Germany up to this point and Hitler did not think those countries had the stomach for war. France was weak after WW I and Hitler didn't expect Chamberlain to declare war. Chamberlain was a good peace-time prime-minister, but due to the war and his own ill health Winston Churchill took over and became a successful and popular war-time prime-minister.

France and Britain were scared of Soviet Russia, they didn't even declare war on the Soviets- even though they were allies of Hitler at that time and also attacked Poland in 1939.



Yes you are right they attacked during summer, it was merely a mistake what I said. It is a long time since I have read about WW II history and I wasn't sure about when exactly he attacked, but thanks for pointing the mistake out to me
Stalin didn't expect the attack so soon, he was shocked. Yes he suspected his attack and tensions between them were growing but Stalin at least thought Hitler would invade after he had dealt with the west.



Hitler's invasion failed because of many things.
Stalin made use of the Scotched Earth policy just as it had been used before against Napoleon. With the harsh weather changes, and the burning of any usable supplies, the German army quickly began to die off. This allowed Russia to begin pushing back, and splitting up the German forces across several borders.
Hitler's plans were to control Russia by the Fall, this clearly shows he underestimated both The Russian Winter and The Soviets army. He failed at that and then the German Army was caught unprepared for the cold Russian Winter, the tanks didn't have much fuel and his supplies didn't last long.
I found reliable information saying that the russian winter of that time was one of the coldest winter of the century, if not the coldest. Although I am not completely sure about that.


It wasn't that Stalins army was any better than Hitlers, it was just much larger. Soviets were so many and most of them were unexperienced, Stalin ordered anyone that would retreat to be shot on sight.
The fact that Stalin had just purged the Red Army meant that it had few senior officers who actually understood how to fight a war.
The Red Army was the largest but it was far from being the best.



Hitler was an Anglophile, he loved Britain and the British people. He even tried to get into Art School in Liverpool, but was unsuccessful.
Hitler admired the British Empire and wanted to be part of it.
He knew that to own a quarter of the globe as Britain did, Britain had to be a very powerful nation. He wasn't wrong.
He wanted to be Britain's ally and not her enemy. When Britain declared war on Germany in September 1939, Hitler shut himself away for three whole days and was seen by no one.
He was also obsessed by the idea that Germany lost WW I because it had failed to form an adequate prewar alliance with the UK and with Italy. He managed of course to get Fascist Italy on his side but could not understand why his favourite foreign policy expert, Ribbentrop, whom he made ambassador in London, could not get the Brits on side.



Luftwaffe was one of the strongest, most doctrinally advanced, and most battle-experienced air forces in the world. It became an essential component in the German military campaigns. Operating in support of ground forces, it helped the German armies to conquer the bulk of the European continent in a series of short and decisive campaigns in the first nine months of the war. It first loss were against the Royal Air Force during the battle of Britain. There are two reasons why his attack failed. A minor reason was the fact that due to fuel limitations, German fighters could only protect the bombers for a limited time.

The major reason was a strategic error:
At the beginning of the Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe concentrated on attacking the British air fields. Had the Germans kept after the air fileds for another three weeks or so, the British Fighter Command would have been knocked out of the war. Instead, fortunately, Hitler had one of his bright ideas. He ordered the Luftwaffe to begin attacking British cities, particularly London, with the intention of terrorising the British people into submission. That failed, and with their airfields secure, the British air force's tactical advantages began to tell and Germany began losing more planes than they could afford. Eventually Hitler convinced himself that Britain didn't really matter and began concentrating his resources for the invasion of Russia.



I recommend reading the book "Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World" by Patrick J.
Buchanan
There he states that Churchill regreted the decision of allying himself with Stalin against Hitler. He didn't say he wanted to ally himself with Hitler, Churchill said that he would have chosen Hitler rather than Stalin if he would have known the aftermath.
Buchanan also argues that if the rest of the world had stayed out of WWII until Hitler had already begun to clash with Stalin, then the war would have ended with fascism and communism completely destroyed with democracy becoming dominant.
It is a very good book and It's interesting thinking about what would have happened if The West didn't intervene, do you think that Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia would have destroyed each other?



Thank you for the conversation on this matter, it has been fun and educating.

Hi - sorry but that kind of book as pointed out is one with an Hitler apologist/imperialist racist agenda really. I really don't believe that in the light of Auschwitz Churchill could have ever justified allying with Germany. I also don't accept all the Hitler loved us and would have treated us as honorary Aryans and let us keep our colonies with all our happy black people that you get from some people on the right (as if thats some sort of privilege to be regarded as good sorts by a maniac) - there was a deep vein of anti-British feeling in Germany and had been for a long time that would have affected many other Nazis. Eventually of course Hitler decided that the German people were morally weak and that he should have chosen the Russians to give his message to as they were more resilient and tough. The Red Army btw may not have been qualitatively as good as the Wehrmacht but as the Soviets said, "Quantity has a Quality all of its own"
The whole premise of the war being unnecessary is faulty anyway (and your remark about 'what would have happened if The West didn't intervene') since of course after Poland the Nazis chose to attack the West not the other way around. I have no great love for Stalin but I do respect the resistance of the Russian and other peoples to what was very clearly a race war by a country whose political ideology regarded them as sub-human cattle.
Theres a good case to argue (instead of making excuses as some people do for the German defeat which sometimes has an undertone of 'pity really they didn't win') that at a strategic level the German military was one of the most stupid in world history - twice in the space of 27 years they tried to fight a 2 front war. The Germans of course made excuses for why they lost WW1 too that basically implied that it was unfair, down to numbers etc (and there are more revisionist historians who also trot out the same kind of 'unnecessary war' stuff for that too) - when in fact esp the British Army by 1918 was simply a superb combined arms force that kicked the German Army's ass.
Of course, a lot of this revisionism is not surprising anyway, since right wing racist anti-communists are always going to choose the Nazis over the Communists esp since most of the people the former murdered are not on their top ten list anyway (just as they will spend time today trying to prove that Obama is a Marxist Muslim infiltrator).
As Indiana Jones says "Nazis - I hate those guys"

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

Yes.

If there wasn't any US Lend-Lease aid to the USSR, and Hitler wasn't stupid.

 

[LionofJudahDK]

I think we need to qualify what "win" means, here.

1: Total victory in the West, negotiated peace with UK, Soviet Union pushed back to the Urals, and a Neuropa under German leadership as one of the worlds superpowers?
- Totally possible. Listen to the generals, don't over-extend in the SU, and do things on a reasonable timetable, and Hitler'll get his victory.

2: Total world domination, invasion and occupation of Britain, advance into the Asian part of the SU ("meeting the Japanese half-way"), eventual invasion of America?
- Totally impossible. Not going to happen....at all.
I don't get why invading the is even mentioned as a possibility.You'll need a base of operations in order to launch a major invasion over sea, from where to send transports, base air support, etc. A logistical nightmare in any case. It was difficult for the US, when it had this base in the UK. It is going to be totally and utterly impossible for Germany to launch an invasion across the Atlantic. Not happening.