World Vision hiring gays?

[ByTheSpirit]

I would agree with what jiminpa said. If an organisation came out and said that lying or stealing was now morally acceptable then they would be equally wrong. But it is same sex marriage that is being legitimized and encouraged.

Furthermore marriage is like one of the foundations of Christian morality. It's too serious an issue to let slide any further.

God Bless

I can agree with this.

 

[NorrinRadd]

...

FRANKLIN GRAHAM SAYS WORLD VISION DOESN'T BELIEVE IN BIBLE

This type of thing ^ is completely unnecessary.

I agree. It is typical Fundy manure. One may legitimately say that WV's interpretation and application of Scripture is faulty, but Frankie went way too far. It's in the same class as saying the Vineyard, AG, and Foursquare churches "don't believe in the Bible" because they accept women as pastors.

 

[jiminpa]

But this ^^^ doesn't make it right for someone like Franklin Graham to say the organization doesn't believe in the Bible. I'm still not on board with the train of thought that says it's okay for believers who sin to preach the gospel as long as they aren't homosexual. Homosexuality as I've explained is only one of many sins and perversions that scriptures condemn as unholy and unrighteous. I suppose I'll have to agree to disagree on it. I'm not in any way, shape, or form condoning the lifestyle or even the decision WV made. I'm simply advocating on behalf of those who are affected most by a decision to stop funding WV, those poor innocent little children and communities overseas who depend upon the support given through WV. Obeying the heart of the law is more important than the letter...

...and I think I have been consistent in agreeing that this would be the same as if they had come out and said that they are going to knowingly hire unrepentant liars, gossips, thieves and murderers.

There is a difference between someone battling a sin, and someone openly flaunting sin. Homosexual marriage doesn't stop at openly flaunting sin; it is an intentional attempt to normalize grave sin, that includes intense child abuse.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

...and I think I have been consistent in agreeing that this would be the same as if they had come out and said that they are going to knowingly hire unrepentant liars, gossips, thieves and murderers.

There is a difference between someone battling a sin, and someone openly flaunting sin. Homosexual marriage doesn't stop at openly flaunting sin; it is an intentional attempt to normalize grave sin, that includes intense child abuse.

 

[Tobias]

...and I think I have been consistent in agreeing that this would be the same as if they had come out and said that they are going to knowingly hire unrepentant liars, gossips, thieves and murderers.

There is a difference between someone battling a sin, and someone openly flaunting sin. Homosexual marriage doesn't stop at openly flaunting sin; it is an intentional attempt to normalize grave sin, that includes intense child abuse.

Well just fyi, anytime you start comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, people immediately stop listening. There is no quicker way to getting yourself branded as an ignorant intolerant religious fanatic, imo.


If indeed there are denominations of Christians that are giving homosexuals a "license to sin", that license is very limited, and doesn't ever go to the extent that you seem to think it does.

Just like how a regular marriage license does not give the man the right to abuse his wife and children. Perhaps at one time it did. But not anymore. There are laws against this stuff now.

 

[Alithis]

Well just fyi, anytime you start comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, people immediately stop listening. There is no quicker way to getting yourself branded as an ignorant intolerant religious fanatic, imo.


If indeed there are denominations of Christians that are giving homosexuals a "license to sin", that license is very limited, and doesn't ever go to the extent that you seem to think it does.

Just like how a regular marriage license does not give the man the right to abuse his wife and children. Perhaps at one time it did. But not anymore. There are laws against this stuff now.

ahh and there is the great debate- sighs-
morality based upon the righteousness of God
vs
morality based upon the wicked inclination of men.

"we say" ..the law of God denotes what is right and wrong
"they" say any law denotes what is right and wrong.
so change the law and you change what is right and wrong ..in their eyes .
so the comparison is fair and not as extreme as you think ..in the 1970s (I think it was) a certain party said ..what's wrong with it ,we should have the freedom and the right (a right that has never existed cannot be claimed back..only usurped) to express our desired form of sexuality..
they changed the law .. and now ,in their eyes , it is no longer wrong .

-now ask them .. Why is a priest(male) (using a known case for example) who sexually interferes with a 14-15 year old (male) a pedophile and a man who sexually engages with a 16 yr old (male) is not a pedophile ..he is "gay".. the answer has nothing to do with morals and everything to do with laws .. because ,they tell me, one act is against the law, the other isn't -,hence all their moral code is deviated to the point where what ever can be made "lawful" will be considered an acceptable behavior .
perhaps this is why the "gay" community are the greatest advocates for the lowering of the age of consent .. so they can turn illegal pedophilia into legal homosexuality .. scary isn't it .

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

.
as in the days of Noah , so shall it be in the last days ...

 

[murjahel]

perhaps this is why the "gay" community are the greatest advocates for the lowering of the age of consent .. so they can turn illegal pedophilia into legal homosexuality .. scary isn't it .

Pedophilia is a sexual sin of a person 16 or older who has a desire to engage in sexual ways with a child. Grown men often will look for a three, four, five, etc year old to force or trick into sexual activity of one kind or another.

Often, like other sexual perversions, this one starts with inappropriate contentography of naked children, and progresses to pictures of children engaged sexually, and finally manifests itself in pedophile behavior with a child. Not all pedophiles reach that final step into the sin. The number of female pedophiles is greater than most would imagine.

Homosexuality and pedophilia are closely linked. Not all pedophiles are homosexuals, but many homosexuals prefer young children, pre-puberty children, with which to engage in their perverted sexual activity.

Many ‘clergy’ abuses in both protestantism, and in catholicism, have shown the clergy preference for young, innocent victims of the same gender. School teachers have sometimes been guilty of taking advantage of very young students.

The “Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy” in 1992 found that homosexual men are three times more likely than straight men to engage in pedophia.

The ‘Archives of Sexual Behaviour’ in 1988 studying 229 convicted child molesters, found that 86 % of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.

In 2000, the ‘Archives of Sexual Behaviour’ concluded that among pedophiles, the rate of homosexual attraction is 6 to 20 times higher than among the male population generally.

Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a psychiatrist treating pedophiles said: ‘Every priest whom I treated who was involved with children sexually had previously been involved in adult homosexual relationships.”

The rise in homosexuality acceptance, tolerance, and encouragement, is going to put children to greater and greater dangers of abuse.

 

[PersephonesTear]

Well just fyi, anytime you start comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, people immediately stop listening. There is no quicker way to getting yourself branded as an ignorant intolerant religious fanatic, imo.


If indeed there are denominations of Christians that are giving homosexuals a "license to sin", that license is very limited, and doesn't ever go to the extent that you seem to think it does.

Just like how a regular marriage license does not give the man the right to abuse his wife and children. Perhaps at one time it did. But not anymore. There are laws against this stuff now.

Yup, that's about the point at which I completely check out and stop listening, because it shows that the person speaking has no idea what he or she is talking about. It is very difficult to have a reasoned discussion with someone who has bad information and, furthermore, won't even acknowledge that their information is bad.

 

[Alithis]

Pedophilia is a sexual sin of a person 16 or older who has a desire to engage in sexual ways with a child. Grown men often will look for a three, four, five, etc year old to force or trick into sexual activity of one kind or another.

Often, like other sexual perversions, this one starts with inappropriate contentography of naked children, and progresses to pictures of children engaged sexually, and finally manifests itself in pedophile behavior with a child. Not all pedophiles reach that final step into the sin. The number of female pedophiles is greater than most would imagine.

Homosexuality and pedophilia are closely linked. Not all pedophiles are homosexuals, but many homosexuals prefer young children, pre-puberty children, with which to engage in their perverted sexual activity.

Many ‘clergy’ abuses in both protestantism, and in catholicism, have shown the clergy preference for young, innocent victims of the same gender. School teachers have sometimes been guilty of taking advantage of very young students.

The “Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy” in 1992 found that homosexual men are three times more likely than straight men to engage in pedophia.

The ‘Archives of Sexual Behaviour’ in 1988 studying 229 convicted child molesters, found that 86 % of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.

In 2000, the ‘Archives of Sexual Behaviour’ concluded that among pedophiles, the rate of homosexual attraction is 6 to 20 times higher than among the male population generally.

Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a psychiatrist treating pedophiles said: ‘Every priest whom I treated who was involved with children sexually had previously been involved in adult homosexual relationships.”

The rise in homosexuality acceptance, tolerance, and encouragement, is going to put children to greater and greater dangers of abuse.

of course we know its sin...actually it is sin regardless of age..
but they don't say its sin...they say its illegal .
massive difference... change the law,cancel any wrong doing.-in their eyes -
it is the whole insidious deviant nature of flesh based morality i was attempting to highlight

 

[jiminpa]

Well just fyi, anytime you start comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, people immediately stop listening. There is no quicker way to getting yourself branded as an ignorant intolerant religious fanatic, imo.


If indeed there are denominations of Christians that are giving homosexuals a "license to sin", that license is very limited, and doesn't ever go to the extent that you seem to think it does.

Just like how a regular marriage license does not give the man the right to abuse his wife and children. Perhaps at one time it did. But not anymore. There are laws against this stuff now.

The people who "stop listening" were never listening in the first place. People living in darkness do so because they love the dark. Call me a throwback, or a neanderthal, it doesn't matter to me, because I know what God says, and I can see how homosexuality is being normalized, not by information but by money and political pressure, and I have seen how effectively that works.

 

[geetrue]

You have to take a stand somewhere ... Franklin Graham has taken that stand.

He is man with a wise father that has used the bible for his strong stand. We should do likewise.

"Let you yea be yea and let your nay be nay anything other than this is of the devil" ... doesn't that sound familiar? It is written in the old testament and in the new. I couldn't find it in this early morning light, but I did find this one

2 Corinthians 2:10–11 (NKJV)
Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ, least Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.

This won't be the last time a major ministry is tested in order to test what we think.

2 Timothy 3:1-6

You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

You have to take a stand somewhere ... Franklin Graham has taken that stand.

He is man with a wise father that has used the bible for his strong stand. We should do likewise.

"Let you yea be yea and let your nay be nay anything other than this is of the devil" ... doesn't that sound familiar? It is written in the old testament and in the new. I couldn't find it in this early morning light, but I did find this one

2 Corinthians 2:10–11 (NKJV)
Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ, least Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.

This won't be the last time a major ministry is tested in order to test what we think.

2 Timothy 3:1-6

At what point in that passage from 2 Timothy do you apply it though? If you say a person has only one chance to be perfect and the first time they mess up and sin (which is unholiness) I'm never speaking to them again.

I don't think Paul meant it as a immediate cessasion of relations with individuals, but along with other passages of scripture if you try and reconcile them through the proper channels and processes and they refuse, then you should have nothing to do with them and treat them as unbelievers.

But in the case of World Vision, the effects of cutting them out go beyond just some organization losing funding. You are talking about taking food, water, shelter, clothing, medical supplies away from children, families, communities that REALLY need it. Which is more important? To love your neighbor as yourself or strictly apply one's own interpretation of the law? Jesus said that only one of those I just mentioned is according to His will.

You are right, Mr. Graham has the right to take his stand where he chooses. But he went too far by proclaiming what he did, and just because he is heir to his father's ministry and name, doesn't make every decision of his right or accurate.

 

[Tobias]

The people who "stop listening" were never listening in the first place. People living in darkness do so because they love the dark. Call me a throwback, or a neanderthal, it doesn't matter to me, because I know what God says, and I can see how homosexuality is being normalized, not by information but by money and political pressure, and I have seen how effectively that works.

The biggest problem I see with the Gay Marriage issue, is that both sides have stopped listening to each other. People just tune you out the moment you say certain words, and brand you as one of the "opposition". It doesn't matter how well you craft the message of your argument, if it contains certain key words it will trigger a negative response.


The "marriage rights" side does the same thing too. If they say something like "You are just trying to defend your right to discriminate against other people" it really leaves no more room for constructive conversation. It reduces the discussion to a shouting match where each one tries their hand at out witting their debate opponent, but nobody learns anything because all minds are made up already.

 

[jiminpa]

The biggest problem I see with the Gay Marriage issue, is that both sides have stopped listening to each other. People just tune you out the moment you say certain words, and brand you as one of the "opposition". It doesn't matter how well you craft the message of your argument, if it contains certain key words it will trigger a negative response.


The "marriage rights" side does the same thing too. If they say something like "You are just trying to defend your right to discriminate against other people" it really leaves no more room for constructive conversation. It reduces the discussion to a shouting match where each one tries their hand at out witting their debate opponent, but nobody learns anything because all minds are made up already.

Those key words that tune the homosexuals and those wanting to normalize them are any amount of the truth, because they refuse The Truth, and want to feel good about going to Hell, or deceive themselves into thinking that they are not going to Hell even though they love their sin more than anything in their life. I don't care if they tune me out. If they want to go to Hell that much I can't stop them, but what I can do is keep telling the truth, and keep offending them, and let the Holy Spirit work on them. He won't force them to repent, but He has used some of the most insignificant things to bring others to God, so I trust He can use my words now too.

 

[Tobias]

Those key words that tune the homosexuals and those wanting to normalize them are any amount of the truth, because they refuse The Truth, and want to feel good about going to Hell, or deceive themselves into thinking that they are not going to Hell even though they love their sin more than anything in their life. I don't care if they tune me out. If they want to go to Hell that much I can't stop them, but what I can do is keep telling the truth, and keep offending them, and let the Holy Spirit work on them. He won't force them to repent, but He has used some of the most insignificant things to bring others to God, so I trust He can use my words now too.

That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about!

Someone who has their mind completely made up, and who would only enter into a conversation with someone to try to convince them of what they already know is the "Truth".


Unfortunately, the pro-Gay Marriage proponents are doing the exact same thing. Many of them are completely and totally convinced that the only reason you would stand against "Equality", is because you are homophobic and simply want to defend your right to discriminate. So many of these people feel it is their God-given responsibility to scold and belittle you; because you dare to use His Name as an excuse to express your own personal dislike for homosexuals.


I'm not saying this because I agree with their position. I'm just saying... that listening will sometimes reap certain results that you might otherwise miss out on.


Also do remember, that the number of actual gay people is a rather small portion of the population. And from that number of those who would bother to talk it over with Christians, is nearly zero.

More often than not, anyone who feels the drive to argue this issue with a Christian, is a straight person who feels they are on a crusade to fight for the innocent victims that Christians are persecuting. Considering the fact that we've already all but lost this battle (gay marriage is already the law in many countries and states in the USA), perhaps a change of tactics is in order? Maybe it's time to try to find a way to show the general population that we are in fact NOT bigots, and really did have valid reasons for opposing gay marriage?

 

[jiminpa]

That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about!

Someone who has their mind completely made up, and who would only enter into a conversation with someone to try to convince them of what they already know is the "Truth".


Unfortunately, the pro-Gay Marriage proponents are doing the exact same thing. Many of them are completely and totally convinced that the only reason you would stand against "Equality", is because you are homophobic and simply want to defend your right to discriminate. So many of these people feel it is their God-given responsibility to scold and belittle you; because you dare to use His Name as an excuse to express your own personal dislike for homosexuals.


I'm not saying this because I agree with their position. I'm just saying... that listening will sometimes reap certain results that you might otherwise miss out on.


Also do remember, that the number of actual gay people is a rather small portion of the population. And from that number of those who would bother to talk it over with Christians, is nearly zero.

More often than not, anyone who feels the drive to argue this issue with a Christian, is a straight person who feels they are on a crusade to fight for the innocent victims that Christians are persecuting. Considering the fact that we've already all but lost this battle (gay marriage is already the law in many countries and states in the USA), perhaps a change of tactics is in order? Maybe it's time to try to find a way to show the general population that we are in fact NOT bigots, and really did have valid reasons for opposing gay marriage?

They won't talk, because they love their sin. They will talk to someone who will tell them that they can have their lifestyle of sin and God too, but that's a lie. I can't lie to someone in hopes of telling them the truth later, because, well, I'd have to start from a lie and I won't do that, and even if I were willing to start from a lie how would I gain credibility having premised the whole conversation on a lie.

Now World Vision has shown that they are willing to lie to gain acceptance. How is that working out for them? They have lost credibility with much of the church, and many of their now former financial supporters. It is my sincere belief that they are compromised and that they would misuse any money or sponsorship that I would entrust them with, and I can find better places for both. Reputation is not something easily or quickly recovered.

 

[Tobias]

They won't talk, because they love their sin. They will talk to someone who will tell them that they can have their lifestyle of sin and God too, but that's a lie. I can't lie to someone in hopes of telling them the truth later, because, well, I'd have to start from a lie and I won't do that, and even if I were willing to start from a lie how would I gain credibility having premised the whole conversation on a lie.

Now World Vision has shown that they are willing to lie to gain acceptance. How is that working out for them? They have lost credibility with much of the church, and many of their now former financial supporters. It is my sincere belief that they are compromised and that they would misuse any money or sponsorship that I would entrust them with, and I can find better places for both. Reputation is not something easily or quickly recovered.

You must be talking about those rare times when it's an actual gay person you are debating?


I find that most often, these discussion are with straight people who feel they are on some mission of mercy to defend the poor homosexuals from prejudiced Christians.

 

[Chainless]

But in the case of World Vision, the effects of cutting them out go beyond just some organization losing funding. You are talking about taking food, water, shelter, clothing, medical supplies away from children, families, communities that REALLY need it. Which is more important? To love your neighbor as yourself or strictly apply one's own interpretation of the law? Jesus said that only one of those I just mentioned is according to His will.

The people in need who we support are important, I totally agree. Myself and the people I know and have seen would NEVER simply rip our funding out from under the children we sponsor. If, in our prudence, we decided that giving our support to this organization was something we couldn't do our first thought would be to complete any work we were doing and secondly where we would transition to. I'm not going to stop helping people in need. There are several organizations I have supported for years with which the money would help at least as much as it does at World Vision. I really think most Christians who are giving this thought are in the same mindset. Having said that, I have learned over the years not to be reactionary. With something like this where there are people in need I am even more likely to give it much more time and prayer. I really hope every Christian who is thinking of pulling their support for World Vision doesn't do so rashly. That worries me.

You are right, Mr. Graham has the right to take his stand where he chooses. But he went too far by proclaiming what he did, and just because he is heir to his father's ministry and name, doesn't make every decision of his right or accurate.

I totally agree. “It’s obvious World Vision doesn't believe in the Bible,” is just a terrible thing to slap on a person let alone an entire organization. It stinks of Phariseeism.

...and I think I have been consistent in agreeing that this would be the same as if they had come out and said that they are going to knowingly hire unrepentant liars, gossips, thieves and murderers.

There is a difference between someone battling a sin, and someone openly flaunting sin. Homosexual marriage doesn't stop at openly flaunting sin; it is an intentional attempt to normalize grave sin, that includes intense child abuse.

This is exactly what I was saying a few pages back. I think that is one of the biggest reasons why this issue is more complicated than "this sin and that sin". With gay marriage, you have a means to publicly and permanently (marriage by design) accepting and condoning sin. Not only that but doing so on an alter with an institution designed by God.

I read a quote about this that was food for thought for me:

First, World Vision has taken a step away from the cry of biblical love, which says, we care about all suffering, especially eternal suffering. Without care about eternal suffering, care about temporal suffering is a mirage. It looks like love, but the greatest gift is being withheld.

 

[lismore]

We can debate this for a hundred years but the bottom line will still be there.

In God's eyes gay marriage is a gay mirage. There is no gay marriage. No Christian or Christian organisation can accept it.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

We can debate this for a hundred years but the bottom line will still be there.

In God's eyes gay marriage is a gay mirage. There is no gay marriage. No Christian or Christian organisation can accept it.

But you see this is the issue and it is worth debating for a million years. This is not about gay marriage, this is about denying basic life necessities to those who need them most. Say all you want about find another organization to give to, but I'll tell you right now, I will not take away from those children I give to already just because of this issue.

Dear Formerly Sponsored World Vision Child: Sorry, But Look at It From My Perspective | the unbearable lightness of huckabeing

Yeah, this sounds about right. After all Jesus did say all men would know you are His disciples by how stringent you are in applying biblical standards to others, right?