World Slave Labor In America, Should It Be Allowed.

[Rion]

I enjoy people disagreeing with me. It’s interesting and gets me thinking in new ways. Throwing out a strawman about slavery however is not disagreement, it’s baiting. Just like if you were defending the right to bear arms, and I came back with ‘you know who else supports the right to bear arms? ISIS!’. That would also be baiting. Glad we could clear this up.

If you want to define baiting that broadly, then I would suggest that you take a good, hard look at some of your own posts.

 

[Kentonio]

If you want to define baiting that broadly, then I would suggest that you take a good, hard look at some of your own posts.

As if I would ever bait..

 

[Aldebaran]

I agree with your first two paragraphs. What makes it relevant to US politics is that many on the right advocate getting rid of child labor laws, minimum wage laws, union, etc. They see these things as impediments to a "free" market. It is dangerous thinking.

Well, I have a bit of personal experience that may or may not relate to this. I used to work in a place that was labeled as being job training center for disabled people. They paid less than minimum wage by paying by the number of items being done. Usually, it amounted to maybe a dollar an hour. The supervisors there would often be verbally abusive in ways that I found rather surprising, but I believe they could get away with it because it was some sort of private facility. I don't know if this qualifies as "slave labor" or not. At the time, it was my first job and all I could get so I stayed there for awhile.

 

[DaisyDay]

It's messed up...and I don't like it...but it's the fault of the nation these people inhabit. If they had child labor laws, minimum wages, unions, etc...these things wouldn't happen (not legally anyway).

If they didn't have dire poverty, it wouldn't happen.

 

[DaisyDay]

I agree, however the work is minimal, providing service in their facilities.

The article below ahows how they are branching out in firefighting, and other ventures.

Is it a form of slavery?

No, they do it voluntarily for $$$

Think prison labor is a form of slavery? Think again

How much do incarcerated people earn in each state? | Prison Policy Initiative

One major surprise: prisons appear to be paying incarcerated people less today than they were in 2001. The average of the minimum daily wages paid to incarcerated workers for non-industry prison jobs is now 86 cents, down from 93 cents reported in 2001...With a few rare exceptions, regular prison jobs are still unpaid in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, and Texas.

The wages listed above do not include any deductions, which in reality often leave incarcerated workers with less than half of their gross pay...Making it hard for incarcerated people to earn real money hurts their chances of success when they are released, too. With little to no savings, how can they possibly afford the immediate costs of food, housing, healthcare, transportation, child support, and supervison fees?

 

[DaisyDay]

Well, I have a bit of personal experience that may or may not relate to this. I used to work in a place that was labeled as being job training center for disabled people. They paid less than minimum wage by paying by the number of items being done. Usually, it amounted to maybe a dollar an hour. The supervisors there would often be verbally abusive in ways that I found rather surprising, but I believe they could get away with it because it was some sort of private facility. I don't know if this qualifies as "slave labor" or not. At the time, it was my first job and all I could get so I stayed there for awhile.

That totally sucks. People should be treated decently. I hope you're doing better now.

Appropriate job training can be difficult to obtain, disabled or not. I lucked out on my second try - computer programming happened to be a good fit for me even though it wasn't my first choice.

 

[Aldebaran]

That totally sucks. People should be treated decently. I hope you're doing better now.

Well, I've done better since then, but not anymore. In the past, I've dealt with plenty of abuse at other places as well.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you're saying that you don't see a problem with it, and see no need for regulation, then do you staunchly oppose Trump's regulatory plan pertaining to protectionism?

People can't have it both ways here...they can't say "it's a great thing that these CEO's are pulling in 8-figure salaries, we should embrace that" while simultaneously saying "Donald should put protectionism laws in place so encourage purchasing American goods".

It was the former that caused the issues that the latter is attempting to address (in a flawed manner I might add).

It was their quest for a ridiculously high salaries & profits that drove them to seek alternatives outside of the US. When making 50x what their employees made just wasn't enough for them anymore, they sought to find new employees outside the country that would do it for much less.

If you pass protectionism laws that all but force them to use American operations instead of foreign ones, and "those pesky minimum wage laws" are what's standing between them and those high salaries they wanted, the first thing they're going to lobby for with their power is to remove that, dismantle unions, and pay American workers the same lousy wage they were paying the foreign workers.

If you're going to try to address greed with legislation (which is what the protectionism laws are attempting here) then it can't be flimsy legislation that just transfers the poor conditions from foreign workers onto domestic ones, it needs to be stern and it needs to codify and strengthen the rights of American workers. Otherwise, in 10 years, we'll just have American workers in a Hanes factory trying to scrape by on wages less than $15k/year.

Gotta pick one or the other...either you embrace 100% free markets and deal with the consequences (outsourcing, destroying environments, low wages, etc...), or you take a hard line and pass legislation that says "You WILL use American operations for this, You WILL pay them a decent wage, You WILL allow them to unionize, and You WILL provide benefits...if that means you and your executive team only make $5 million next year instead of $10 million...tough luck"

Trying to implement these half-baked solutions just transfer the problem from one place to another.

We need to put tariffs in place, no other option on maintaining our western free society and the middle class.

We have clearly been give the past 20 year test case.

The corporate business owners "Fat Cats" wont stop until every world economy is drained, bangaledeshi is their prime example.

6.5 cents an hour, child labor, goods coming into America, Hanesbrands headquarters in North Carolina USA?

Americans should be marching in the streets exposing this evil, but we are divided right where they want us.

Tariffs, before its to late.

 

[Nithavela]

We need to put tariffs in place, no other option on maintaining our western free society and the middle class.

We have clearly been give the past 20 year test case.

The corporate business owners "Fat Cats" wont stop until every world economy is drained, bangaledeshi is their prime example.

6.5 cents an hour, child labor, goods coming into America, Hanesbrands headquarters in North Carolina USA?

Americans should be marching in the streets exposing this evil, but we are divided right where they want us.

Tariffs, before its to late.

Funny that the people pushing for those tarrifs aren't the workers, but just a different kind of fat cats (i. e. the steel and aluminium manufacturers of the USA).

Guess they just have a big heart for the middle class.

 

[hislegacy]

As for paying prisoners:

How much does it cost per year to house them?

How many free services are available to them?

Why again are they there? It’s not a career move to most people.

 

[Truth7t7]

How much do incarcerated people earn in each state? | Prison Policy Initiative

Thanks for the info, as I thought the prisoners are not directly competing with private manufacturing, and for the most part their services are confined to State related concerns.

Slave labor? I would say yes

Do I believe they are falsely jailing individuals directly related to get them to work at reduced slave wages, No.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Americans should be marching in the streets exposing this evil, but we are divided right where they want us.

Tariffs, before its to late.

Like I touched on, if worker protection laws aren't put in place prior to tariffs, then the problem just gets transferred from foreign people on to domestic people.

That means before that could happen, union-busting laws need to disappear and minimum wages need to be strengthened...and since the same people who voted Donald into office hate both of those things, they're unlikely to go for those two measures so what'll happen is these protectionism laws will go into place, and the same fat cats who abuse foreign workers will undermine the measures that protect domestic ones and it'll be our nation's youth that are working in sweatshops in 10 years.

 

[super animator]

Like I touched on, if worker protection laws aren't put in place prior to tariffs, then the problem just gets transferred from foreign people on to domestic people.

That means before that could happen, union-busting laws need to disappear and minimum wages need to be strengthened...and since the same people who voted Donald into office hate both of those things, they're unlikely to go for those two measures so what'll happen is these protectionism laws will go into place, and the same fat cats who abuse foreign workers will undermine the measures that protect domestic ones and it'll be our nation's youth that are working in sweatshops in 10 years.

Which no doubt they will be heavily involved in politics.

 

[Truth7t7]

Like I touched on, if worker protection laws aren't put in place prior to tariffs, then the problem just gets transferred from foreign people on to domestic people.

That means before that could happen, union-busting laws need to disappear and minimum wages need to be strengthened...and since the same people who voted Donald into office hate both of those things, they're unlikely to go for those two measures so what'll happen is these protectionism laws will go into place, and the same fat cats who abuse foreign workers will undermine the measures that protect domestic ones and it'll be our nation's youth that are working in sweatshops in 10 years.

I cant fully disagree.

You want to eat the entire giant fish in one setting.

We need to get the fish in the boat first, then we can worry about cleaning, cooking, and eating it.

Sorta like cart before the horse.

One thing is, the jobs will be in a country that has a constitution and bill of rights and has many of the laws in place that you speak of.

Step #1 get the jobs back on American soil.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Step #1 get the jobs back on American soil.

If you don't shore up the US worker protection laws first, before the jobs come back on US soil, they'll never get fixed.

Especially considering the fact that, like I noted, the people who staunchly support Donald, staunchly oppose the protective measures I mentioned.

You're suggesting that it's
Step 1: Get the jobs back on US soil
Step 2: Then work on the laws that protect US workers so that they don't suffer the same abuses as the foreign workers


I would equate to a Drag Racing strategy of
Step 1: Race the car
Step 2: Then after you've raced, put on the helmet and seat belt


It really needs to be the other way around.

The worker protection laws need to be enacted before the greedy guys at the top are too heavily interested in domestic labor policies pertaining to manufacturing.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you don't shore up the US worker protection laws first, before the jobs come back on US soil, they'll never get fixed.

Especially considering the fact that, like I noted, the people who staunchly support Donald, staunchly oppose the protective measures I mentioned.

You're suggesting that it's
Step 1: Get the jobs back on US soil
Step 2: Then work on the laws that protect US workers so that they don't suffer the same abuses as the foreign workers


I would equate to a Drag Racing strategy of
Step 1: Race the car
Step 2: Then after you've raced, put on the helmet and seat belt


It really needs to be the other way around.

The worker protection laws need to be enacted before the greedy guys at the top are too heavily interested in domestic labor policies pertaining to manufacturing.

I disagree, get the jobs back on American soil ASAP!

Robguy states leave our jobs in China, Bangaledesh, etc, until we have perfect labor laws in place?

I agree we need to have worker protections, but your take on the situation is not even real.

Get the fish in the boat first, then you will have "bargaining power" to determine who cleans the fish.

If you dont have a fish, their are no fish market workers to clean it.

Lets catch the fish first

 

[Belk]

We need to put tariffs in place, no other option on maintaining our western free society and the middle class.

We have clearly been give the past 20 year test case.

The corporate business owners "Fat Cats" wont stop until every world economy is drained, bangaledeshi is their prime example.

6.5 cents an hour, child labor, goods coming into America, Hanesbrands headquarters in North Carolina USA?

Americans should be marching in the streets exposing this evil, but we are divided right where they want us.

Tariffs, before its to late.

According to whom?

 

[Truth7t7]

According to whom?

According to your commander in chief.

ABC NEWS:

Here are some of the unconventional slights Trump has either said, written or tweeted about China in the past:

Campaign event in Bluffton, S.C. - July 21, 2015
“I beat the people from China. I win against China. You can win against China if you're smart. But our people don't have a clue. We give state dinners to the heads of China. I said why are you doing state dinners for them? They're ripping us left and right. Just take them to McDonald's and go back to the negotiating table.”

Campaign rally in Staten Island, N.Y. -- April 17, 2016
“China’s upset because of the way Donald Trump is talking about trade with China. They’re ripping us off, folks, it’s time. I’m so happy they’re upset.”

‘Crippled America’ book - 2015
“There are people who wish I wouldn’t refer to China as our enemy. But that’s exactly what they are. They have destroyed entire industries by utilizing low-wage workers, cost us tens of thousands of jobs, spied on our businesses, stolen our technology, and have manipulated and devalued their currency, which makes importing our goods more expensive – and sometimes, impossible.”

’Good Morning America’ interview - Nov. 3, 2015
On labeling China an enemy

“Because it's an economic enemy, because they have taken advantage of us like nobody in history. They have; it's the greatest theft in the history of the world what they've done to the United States. They've taken our jobs.”

Twitter - March 30, 2013
“China is the biggest environmental polluter in the World, by far. They do nothing to clean up their factories and laugh at our stupidity!”

Campaign rally in Fort Wayne, Ind. - May 2, 2016
On China’s trade policies

"We can’t continue to allow China to rape our country and that’s what they’re doing. It’s the greatest theft in the history of the world.”

Twitter - Sept. 21, 2011
“China is neither an ally or a friend -- they want to beat us and own our country.”

Campaign rally in Manchester, N.H. - June 20, 2016
“The single biggest weapon used against us and to destroy our companies is devaluation of currencies, and the greatest ever at that is China. Very smart, they are like grand chess masters. And we are like checkers players. But bad ones.”

Twitter - Aug. 8, 2012
“No surprise that China was caught cheating in the Olympics. That's the Chinese M.O. - Lie, Cheat & Steal in all international dealings.”

'Good Morning America' interview - Nov. 3, 2015
"But when you see China, these are fierce people in terms of negotiation. They want to take your throat out, they want to cut you apart. These are tough people. I've dealt with them all my life."

 

[Truth7t7]

According to whom?

According to your Commander And Chief.

ABC NEWS:

Here are some of the unconventional slights Trump has either said, written or tweeted about China in the past:

Campaign event in Bluffton, S.C. - July 21, 2015
“I beat the people from China. I win against China. You can win against China if you're smart. But our people don't have a clue. We give state dinners to the heads of China. I said why are you doing state dinners for them? They're ripping us left and right. Just take them to McDonald's and go back to the negotiating table.”

Campaign rally in Staten Island, N.Y. -- April 17, 2016
“China’s upset because of the way Donald Trump is talking about trade with China. They’re ripping us off, folks, it’s time. I’m so happy they’re upset.”

‘Crippled America’ book - 2015
“There are people who wish I wouldn’t refer to China as our enemy. But that’s exactly what they are. They have destroyed entire industries by utilizing low-wage workers, cost us tens of thousands of jobs, spied on our businesses, stolen our technology, and have manipulated and devalued their currency, which makes importing our goods more expensive – and sometimes, impossible.”

’Good Morning America’ interview - Nov. 3, 2015
On labeling China an enemy

“Because it's an economic enemy, because they have taken advantage of us like nobody in history. They have; it's the greatest theft in the history of the world what they've done to the United States. They've taken our jobs.”

Twitter - March 30, 2013
“China is the biggest environmental polluter in the World, by far. They do nothing to clean up their factories and laugh at our stupidity!”

Campaign rally in Fort Wayne, Ind. - May 2, 2016
On China’s trade policies

"We can’t continue to allow China to rape our country and that’s what they’re doing. It’s the greatest theft in the history of the world.”

Twitter - Sept. 21, 2011
“China is neither an ally or a friend -- they want to beat us and own our country.”

Campaign rally in Manchester, N.H. - June 20, 2016
“The single biggest weapon used against us and to destroy our companies is devaluation of currencies, and the greatest ever at that is China. Very smart, they are like grand chess masters. And we are like checkers players. But bad ones.”

Twitter - Aug. 8, 2012
“No surprise that China was caught cheating in the Olympics. That's the Chinese M.O. - Lie, Cheat & Steal in all international dealings.”

'Good Morning America' interview - Nov. 3, 2015
"But when you see China, these are fierce people in terms of negotiation. They want to take your throat out, they want to cut you apart. These are tough people. I've dealt with them all my life."

 

[Belk]

According to your Commander And Chief.

I am no longer in the military, he is not my commander and chief. So you believe Trump over economic experts? Why?