World flood??

[visionary]

Just using the water availability currently known on earth, the concept of a world flood looks impossible. So why is there not enough water today to re-produce a worldwide flood? How was the preflood earth different? What was the atmosphere like that it could produce a 40 day and night global rain? Were there oceans back then or was it all up in the "canopy" of the stratosphere?

 

[Dave G.]

Just using the water availability currently known on earth, the concept of a world flood looks impossible. So why is there not enough water today to re-produce a worldwide flood? How was the preflood earth different? What was the atmosphere like that it could produce a 40 day and night global rain? Were there oceans back then or was it all up in the "canopy" of the stratosphere?

You're trying to justify something made supernaturally by God through the natural ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just using the water availability currently known on earth, the concept of a world flood looks impossible.

This was never truth.

The honest scientists know better, and some have published. Look for the ones who report honestly.

 

[Christie insb]

This was never truth.

The honest scientists know better, and some have published. Look for the ones who report honestly.

What scientists do you think report honestly?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What scientists do you think report honestly?

As written in Scripture (the Creator's Breathed Instructions to men) ,

few.

(if and when you find them, it is better not to post their names or identity here - because of the mostly unbelieving readership, it only causes trouble, mocking and grief on this forum and from the possible repercussions to those whose websites or books are named... i.e. everyone has to find out themselves;
this works out best for everyone too, as they should not take someone else's word without duly testing everything, which they won't usually do if they are just told who is who)

 

[tampasteve]

There are really only two ways to look at this, to me anyways:
1: It was supernatural
2: It was natural and not the "whole Earth" but rather a local part of Earth that many/most/all people were living in that was flooded. There are many tales of a great flood in the near East and actual evidence of catastrophic flooding along the Black Sea and other areas. If people had not populated the whole Earth there really would not be a reason to flood it all.

 

[Christie insb]

As written in Scripture (the Creator's Breathed Instructions to men) ,

few.

(if and when you find them, it is better not to post their names or identity here - because of the mostly unbelieving readership, it only causes trouble, mocking and grief on this forum and from the possible repercussions to those whose websites or books are named... i.e. everyone has to find out themselves;
this works out best for everyone too, as they should not take someone else's word without duly testing everything, which they won't usually do if they are just told who is who)

I just find that a lot of pro-flood scientists are like the current leading pro-evolutionary scientist: Bill Nye. He has a Bachelor's Degree in Engineering. Now when I was in graduate school I briefly lived in the adult dorms, and the engineering students were the smartest and most hard-working people there, but I don't think they spent a lot of time on evolutionary biology. I would also like the person to have at least a Master's Degree, preferably a PhD, from a reputable university. I find that like our friend Bill, though, most of them are not truly biologists. Or geologists, who might be more relevant to proving the Flood.

 

[razzelflabben]

Maybe it wasn't a world wide flood but only one massive enough to wide out all of life except those on the ark....the biblical account says nothing about world wide and my husband pointed out that this is before the tower of Babble where mankind was scattered. So maybe the world wide flood notion is nothing more than tradition whereas a massive flood that wiped out life except for those saved is what it is referring to?

 

[Heber Book List]

Genesis 1:6-7?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I just find

Yes, no problem for the moment -

EVERYONE finds what they are looking for... if they are persistent...

FEW ever find the truth, God hides it from them (everyone) unless they love the truth, and seek the truth, and keep seeking the truth, no matter what the cost.
("Get Truth, at all costs")

Since the Bible clearly says society is bad, so very very bad,
once anyone finds and believes this
because God says it,
that is a step in the right direction , God Willing....

 

[visionary]

The concept of a canopy of water in the preflood period would create a greenhouse effect for the planet. It would have a "cool of the evening" and condensation happens. that would explain why he Lord said in scripture that the Lord had not caused rain upon the earth until flood day. It was an unknown thing. The filtration of the sun's rays would not get past the canopy and thus the temperature would be pretty even. Mist going up in the morning and condensation forming in the evening.

There was no winds mentioned in scripture before the flood, so it was an after effect of the flood changing the very environment of earth. Temperature differences cause wind. Winds cause rains. Both of these did not happen until after the flood.

 

[Halbhh]

Just using the water availability currently known on earth, the concept of a world flood looks impossible. So why is there not enough water today to re-produce a worldwide flood? How was the preflood earth different? What was the atmosphere like that it could produce a 40 day and night global rain? Were there oceans back then or was it all up in the "canopy" of the stratosphere?

First some speculation (the meaning part only is at the end of this post) --
Putting aside many other questions, like was the flood regional or is the flood story a combination of real events and additionally parable like parts, and other questions, and only just for speculation considering the idea of a world flood -- it is physically possible (with caveats).

And just for a moment, not yet looking for what is much more important, the actual meaning of the story!! (see bottom of post for more on that).....

To get a flood appearing to be locally as experienced on the ark, and vast also, both, you don't have to have more water, just a very great amount of water the planet already has temporarily in some places it isn't normally, and just the fact of the slope of the land being gentle will allow that standing water to last a very long time, and in some places much longer than others, for instance.

More, it's possible also by physics and known events. For instance.

If a water ice comet hit the deep pacific ocean, at the right angle, and was the right size comet (such typically would come in at various random angles), it would cause a vast amount of ocean water to be vaporized without even hitting the mantle under the water, vastly more water vapor than normal, and then you'd get both world wide cloud cover and world wide precipitation, rainfall around the world, and lasting weeks.

That's all physically possible, if just the right comet was sent on just the right angle.... (yes I know this is sort of beside the point to many of us!

For me it brings to mind the great extinction of 66-65 million years ago.

A large asteroid or comet hit the Earth, and it was just the right size and at just the right moment in Earth's history to cause most dinosaur species to become compost.

Bigger = wipes out mammals too.

Smaller = leave many more dinosaurs continuing.

Just the right size.

Leading to the rise of mammals.

Just right. This is what comes to mind for me. The real meaning of the flood story, though, and the reason it is in the Bible, it's 0% about mere history, mere physics, mere evolution of species, etc., etc., etc.

0% of the real meaning.

It's about mankind and our hearts and souls. In Genesis chapter 6, key, crucial verses we need to notice every word in are verse 5 and verse 11 (but better to read through, so you get things like verse 6 also). Notice that exact wording -- "all", "every", "only", "all the time"..."full"....

Think on that. It's not saying 'mostly'. It's saying all, every, only, full, total complete. 100% (or including Noah, maybe that's really 99.99999% or whatever).

 

[Christie insb]

Yes, no problem for the moment -

EVERYONE finds what they are looking for... if they are persistent...

FEW ever find the truth, God hides it from them (everyone) unless they love the truth, and seek the truth, and keep seeking the truth, no matter what the cost.
("Get Truth, at all costs")

Since the Bible clearly says society is bad, so very very bad,
once anyone finds and believes this
because God says it,
that is a step in the right direction , God Willing....

Yes, no problem for the moment -

EVERYONE finds what they are looking for... if they are persistent...

FEW ever find the truth, God hides it from them (everyone) unless they love the truth, and seek the truth, and keep seeking the truth, no matter what the cost.
("Get Truth, at all costs")

Since the Bible clearly says society is bad, so very very bad,
once anyone finds and believes this
because God says it,
that is a step in the right direction , God Willing....

But this does not address the issue at hand: what scientists provide research that a worldwide flood occurred about? 4000 years? ago.

 

[Dave G.]

Putting aside many other questions, like was the flood regional or is the flood story a combination of real events and additionally parable like parts, and other questions, and only just for speculation considering the idea of a world flood -- it is physically possible (with caveats).

To get a flood appearing to be locally as experienced on the ark, and vast also, both, you don't have to have more water, just a very great amount of water the planet already has temporarily in some places it isn't normally, and just the fact of the slope of the land being gentle will allow that standing water to last a very long time, and in some places much longer than others, for instance.

More, it's possible also by physics and known events. For instance.

If a water ice comet hit the deep pacific ocean, at the right angle, and was the right size comet (such typically would come in at various random angles), it would cause a vast amount of ocean water to be vaporized without even hitting the mantle under the water, vastly more water vapor than normal, and then you'd get both world wide cloud cover and world wide precipitation, rainfall around the world, and lasting weeks.

That's all physically possible.

For me it brings to mind the great extinction of 66-65 million years ago.

A large asteroid or comet hit the Earth, and it was just the right size and at just the right moment in Earth's history to cause most dinosaur species to become compost.

Bigger = wipes out mammals too.

Smaller = leave many more dinosaurs continuing.

Just the right size.

Leading to the rise of mammals.

Just right. This is what comes to mind for me. The real meaning of the flood story, though, and the reason it is in the Bible, it's 0% about mere history, mere physics, mere evolution of species, etc., etc., etc.

0% of the real meaning.

It's about mankind and our hearts and souls. In Genesis chapter 6, key, crucial verses we need to notice every word in are verse 5 and verse 11. Notice that exact wording -- "all", "every", "only", "all the time"....

I think the argument is she is looking for the evidence in the natural. But if we dump evolution and move back to creation and if God is able to create something from nothing, then can He not also create a flood and not only that but the clean up ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But this does not address the issue at hand: what scientists provide research that a worldwide flood occurred about? 4000 years? ago.

ALL of the honest ones.
See the thread "fat chance" recently started.

 

[Halbhh]

I think the argument is she is looking for the evidence in the natural. But if we dump evolution and move back to creation and if God is able to create something from nothing, then can He not also create a flood and not only that but the clean up ?

Yes, of course, God could put the water up into vapor, and cause the torrential rain for 40 days without using a comet hitting the ocean. Definitely. He can do all things. Sorry if that was a distraction to point out a particular how He might have done it. The how isn't really that important. It's the verses in the story, like verse 5 and verse 11, and verse 6. The actual wording, the precise wording, that matters.

 

[paul1149]

I came across a simple back-of-the-envelope calculation that appears to be valid:

Average radius of the Earth is 3959 miles.
Using the formula for surface area of a sphere (4 pi r^2) = 196,861,433 square miles.

That very cool page BWE found says that the total volume of all water on Earth is 332,500,000 cubic miles.

Soooo, if the Earth were completely flat, and all the water spread evenly upon its surface, that means it would be at a depth of about 1.7 miles​

That's an amazing depth of water. All that would be necessary would be for the earth's surface to have been a bit more even, because you don't need anywhere near that depth to kill all surface life.

What's really amazing is the page they got their constants from. And from that page comes this stunning image. The large sphere over the western US is all the water over, on and under the earth. Larger picture on the site (usgs.gov):

 

[Dave G.]

Yes, of course, God could put the water up into vapor, and cause the torrential rain for 40 days without using a comet hitting the ocean. Definitely. He can do all things. Sorry if that was a distraction to point out a particular how He might have done it. The how isn't really that important. It's the verses in the story, like verse 5 and verse 11, and verse 6. The actual wording, the precise wording, that matters.

I should add that I think the OP was looking for natural answers, evidence from evolution through science. I could, be mistaken though.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

natural answers, evidence from evolution through science. I could, be mistaken though.

i.e. a null set. empty. vain. unproven, unwarranted theory.

 

[Halbhh]

I should add that I think the OP was looking for natural answers, evidence from evolution through science. I could, be mistaken though.

Hmmm....as worded, I think I was addressing the OP directly. I edited my initial answer some though to help make clear the difference between mere physics types of considerations, and the bigger questions, so as to be less a cul de sac I hope.