Works without faith is dead...

[Neogaia777]

We all know from James "Faith without works is dead", but, the opposite is also true, good works, not being mixed in with faith in God is dead, or means nothing and cannot save you or justify or redeem you, only faith can...

Now, Faith without works is dead, or doesn't matter either, if it is not producing the fruit of good works, cause it's not genuine or real, and is dead, and is actually not faith, but these ones are imposters... Now, no man can judge or tell by another's works (and often not even the person themselves) that ones faith or where he stands with God, but only God alone can judge or determine this...

So, a person can be doing much good, by what men can tell or judge, and we have to just trust that if he says that he has faith also, we have to believe him, and, also if a person claims to have faith and appears to have faith by what men can tell or judge, we can try to make the mistake as to try and judge whether his faith is genuine by his works, but, this would be a mistake cause only God can do so...

A tree is known by it's fruit...

If you are producing much bad works, then, they probably, if they have faith, are immature in that faith, and might be babes in Christ, if they have faith...

But, we are commanded (to those who are more mature), to not stumble even one of these little ones... To handle them with meekness and mildness and in a spirit of humbleness and gentleness, and it helps to be tuned into the spirit (by faith) when dealing with them... The ability to be honest without causing any pain or hurt or harm, would be a very useful tool or ability in these situations...

But, the people in the world who do not have any faith, but do many, many good works, need to know that that, cannot save them, and will not save them, and is dead and is as filthy rags in God's eyes, if it does not have faith...

Faith alone is more important than works alone or only, cause faith is the substance, or tree, and works is the fruit...

You can begin with God, or make a beginning with God, by faith alone, but, you cannot do this by works alone with no faith... Works cannot produce faith, but faith can (and will, and should in time, time only God can judge) faith can produce good works...

Comments...?

God Bless!

 

[Ken Rank]

I think we have definition issues in our modern western culture. Words were chosen 400-600 years ago when the Scripture was being brought into English and many of those words we still have in out most modern translations but the meanings have changed over time. A couple of examples.... the word "gentile" in the 1828 Webster's was defined (in short) as "a pagan, heathen, anyone not a Jew or Christian" whereas today it means, "any believer who is not Jewish." The word "faith" would be another that comes to mind. Whereas "faith" and "belief" carried different meaning, today we treat faith as if it meant belief. Remember the movie, "God's Not Dead?" If you remember the scene where the pastor and missionary are out at the pastor's car for the 3rd time and the car had not been working. The missionary encourages the pastor to try to start it again and as he places his suitcases on the ground, the missionary tells him, "no man... have faith that God will start it and put the bags in the trunk"

Ok... that is not faith that is belief and here is the difference.

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God... belief in something does not require hearing the Word of God. Faith with works is dead being alone whereas belief does not require works. Faith is the substance of things unseen... hearing is not seen and therefore, if you hear God and then do what you hear the result will be the physical evidence of the faith. Belief does not go to this extreme.

So, faith is hearing God, believing what you heard because the source of what you heard was God, but then DOING what you heard. If the just live by faith... then the just are those who hear God and do what He says. That isn't "working unto salvation," but many will take it that way.

 

[DarthNeo]

"Faith alone is more important than works alone or only, cause faith is the substance, or tree, and works is the fruit..."

I think this is a GREAT analogy...

 

[Neogaia777]

I think we have definition issues in our modern western culture. Words were chosen 400-600 years ago when the Scripture was being brought into English and many of those words we still have in out most modern translations but the meanings have changed over time. A couple of examples.... the word "gentile" in the 1828 Webster's was defined (in short) as "a pagan, heathen, anyone not a Jew or Christian" whereas today it means, "any believer who is not Jewish." The word "faith" would be another that comes to mind. Whereas "faith" and "belief" carried different meaning, today we treat faith as if it meant belief. Remember the movie, "God's Not Dead?" If you remember the scene where the pastor and missionary are out at the pastor's car for the 3rd time and the car had not been working. The missionary encourages the pastor to try to start it again and as he places his suitcases on the ground, the missionary tells him, "no man... have faith that God will start it and put the bags in the trunk"

Ok... that is not faith that is belief and here is the difference.

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God... belief in something does not require hearing the Word of God. Faith with works is dead being alone whereas belief does not require works. Faith is the substance of things unseen... hearing is not seen and therefore, if you hear God and then do what you hear the result will be the physical evidence of the faith. Belief does not go to this extreme.

So, faith is hearing God, believing what you heard because the source of what you heard was God, but then DOING what you heard. If the just live by faith... then the just are those who hear God and do what He says. That isn't "working unto salvation," but many will take it that way.

We believe on and by faith I think...

Faith is an action, whereas belief is a mindset, take a step out on or by faith, and believe it, in your heart and mind, and do not doubt, and it will be as you believe, by your Faith in God/Christ...

Peace, God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

"Faith alone is more important than works alone or only, cause faith is the substance, or tree, and works is the fruit..."

I think this is a GREAT analogy...

Thanks man... Glad you like,

God Bless!

 

[Ken Rank]

We believe on and by faith I think...

Faith is an action, whereas belief is a mindset, take a step out on or by faith, and believe it, in your heart and mind, and do not doubt, and it will be as you believe, by your Faith in God/Christ...

Peace, God Bless!

I arrive at my definition by putting two verses we both mentioned together... "faith comes by hearing the word of God" and "faith without works is dead being alone." So... we have to hear and then we have to do... hear and do. This is why in Hebrews 11, the faith chapter... we see all the examples hearing God and then doing what they heard. It isn't faith unless the two come together that way. Interestingly, the word we see as "hear" in the OT (like, "hear O Israel") is shema. And any Hebrew teacher will tell you that "hear" is an incomplete definition or translation for that word. It is really, "hear and do" or "hear and act." In other words, shema/hear/faith are all the same... hear and do.

 

[Neogaia777]

I arrive at my definition by putting two verses we both mentioned together... "faith comes by hearing the word of God" and "faith without works is dead being alone." So... we have to hear and then we have to do... hear and do. This is why in Hebrews 11, the faith chapter... we see all the examples hearing God and then doing what they heard. It isn't faith unless the two come together that way. Interestingly, the word we see as "hear" in the OT (like, "hear O Israel") is shema. And any Hebrew teacher will tell you that "hear" is an incomplete definition or translation for that word. It is really, "hear and do" or "hear and act." In other words, shema/hear/faith are all the same... hear and do.

Yes, hearing and making sure your hearing from God, is very important, and, when you do, believing the word that he said to you, then stepping out (and action) by and on faith, what he said, believing it (whatever it is) 100% with no doubt, and it will be so... If your really heard it from God...

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[DarthNeo]

See my signature...

 

[Dave-W]

Don't forget these verses:

Romans 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Romans 6:23a For the wages of sin is death,

As Ken said above, there is a difference between a belief (which is just mental agreement with certain doctrines) and true biblical faith.

 

[Ken Rank]

Yes, hearing and making sure your hearing from God, is very important, and, when you do, believing the word that he said to you, then stepping out (and action) by and on faith, what he said, believing it (whatever it is) 100% with no doubt, and it will be so... If your really heard it from God...

Peace,

God Bless!

"If" is the key word for sure. I once saw two different men say that God had told them they would marry a certain girl... the problem was, it was the same girl and apparently God didn't tell her.

 

[Tangible]

Philippians 2
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Do all things without grumbling or disputing, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.

 

[Miss Tardis Blue]

We all know from James "Faith without works is dead", but, the opposite is also true, good works, not being mixed in with faith in God is dead, or means nothing and cannot save you or justify or redeem you, only faith can...

Now, Faith without works is dead, or doesn't matter either, if it is not producing the fruit of good works, cause it's not genuine or real, and is dead, and is actually not faith, but these ones are imposters... Now, no man can judge or tell by another's works (and often not even the person themselves) that ones faith or where he stands with God, but only God alone can judge or determine this...

So, a person can be doing much good, by what men can tell or judge, and we have to just trust that if he says that he has faith also, we have to believe him, and, also if a person claims to have faith and appears to have faith by what men can tell or judge, we can try to make the mistake as to try and judge whether his faith is genuine by his works, but, this would be a mistake cause only God can do so...

A tree is known by it's fruit...

If you are producing much bad works, then, they probably, if they have faith, are immature in that faith, and might be babes in Christ, if they have faith...

But, we are commanded (to those who are more mature), to not stumble even one of these little ones... To handle them with meekness and mildness and in a spirit of humbleness and gentleness, and it helps to be tuned into the spirit (by faith) when dealing with them... The ability to be honest without causing any pain or hurt or harm, would be a very useful tool or ability in these situations...

But, the people in the world who do not have any faith, but do many, many good works, need to know that that, cannot save them, and will not save them, and is dead and is as filthy rags in God's eyes, if it does not have faith...

Faith alone is more important than works alone or only, cause faith is the substance, or tree, and works is the fruit...

You can begin with God, or make a beginning with God, by faith alone, but, you cannot do this by works alone with no faith... Works cannot produce faith, but faith can (and will, and should in time, time only God can judge) faith can produce good works...

Comments...?

God Bless!

Hello and thank you for posting this.....
(Ironically, I changed my signature today before I knew this thread existed....)


Revelation 2
King James Version (KJV)
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


Intent....a person can do all good/godly works of charity--donations---public service---compassion-------
BUT.......
just doing "good/righteous" things means nothing if you are not doing it for the intent of doing it for God....


Colossians 3
King James Version (KJV)
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.


A person must have the faith that they are doing good to follow the Lord's Commandments, to please Him by doing what He told us to do.....

Just "doing good" is just the "ACT/ACTION"-------which is still good to do well for others------
But it does not prove faith before God UNLESS the person "INSIDE/MENTALLY" does it FOR God.......
The person's intent and the motivation of their heart.....

And only GOD KNOWS what a person thinks inside and intends to do.........
Not another person.....
Therefore a person cannot rightfully judge if a person's action was demonstrating their faith or not....

Example-----
A person who very strongly denies that God exists---(In their mind/heart/thoughts)
Yet shows extreme compassion to others,
Gives much of their wealth/time to help the needy-----
Are they the "model Christian" for their outward actions?......

God bless =)

 

[DrBubbaLove]

We believe on and by faith I think...

Faith is an action, whereas belief is a mindset, take a step out on or by faith, and believe it, in your heart and mind, and do not doubt, and it will be as you believe, by your Faith in God/Christ...

Peace, God Bless!

Yes, the difference between mere intellectual assent, as in even the demons recognize there is but one God, and actually having faith by Grace in the Son which will be evident by works.