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Works Salvation?

Discussion in 'St. Basil the Great's Hall' started by Light of the East, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    St. Paisios comes immediately to mind. I can't remember others from Mt. Athos who basically said the same thing.
     
  2. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    aren't theosis, being saved, cooperating with the Spirit, receiving rewards all the same according to our understanding?
     
  3. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    yes, you can be like Christ. it's just an unending process since He is infinite
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  4. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    So no specific writing I can read? It helps me when I have more context to the quote.
     
  5. peregrinus2017

    peregrinus2017 Active Member

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    I hope I don't muddy the waters too much stirring my own confused thoughts into the pot, if so please forgive and correct me. The first thing is to have an understanding of what salvation is, as it seems people have very differing ideas of what it is.
    I find salvation to be a great, glorious and eternal process, and it is hard to really fully understand eternal things inside of time. I tend to think of my salvation as the relationship between God and myself. It has a beginning, but is forever growing and developing. Healthy relationship requires both the will and the work of those involved. Even in my many failings I can grow closer to Him, coming to Him in contrition and repentance. I can't remember where I read it, but recall someone making a comparison between the incarnation and our salvation. Just as Christ is 100% God and 100% man, so our salvation is 100% God and 100% man.
    I truly hope we can all learn how to work out our salvation.
     
  6. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    yep, it's 100% faith with 100% works only by 100% grace.
     
  7. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    The issue is that there can be reasons for obeying God other than trying to earn our salvation. To use an analogy, if a professional musician were to teach me how to play an instrument as a gift, then their lessons themselves would be the content of their gift, and participating in that training would be doing nothing to earn their gift, but rather that would be the way to receive it. Our salvation is the same sort of gift, where being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly is itself the content of the gift (Titus 2:11-14).
     
  8. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    To use an analogy, if someone goes on a diet and exercises, then having a healthier body is an intrinsic result, not an extrinsic reward. Refraining from living in sin is the content of the gift of being saved from living in sin.
     
  9. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    I hope I am understanding you correctly. Salvation is being saved from the corruption of sin, the destruction of the image of God in us, and our separation from God. I don't see this having anything to do with rewards.

    Put another way, do you honestly think that I, sinful as I am, will recieve the same reward in heaven as a saint from Athos? If I did, then God would be unjust. Those who have fought and struggled with the passions in this life, have overcome them, and have not given up, deserve a far better reward in the next life than us lazy Christians who have trouble keeping a prayer rule because of our slothfulness.

    Christ harrowed hell, saved all mankind (Romans 5: 12-19) and destroyed death. That is salvation. Rewards are what we choose to do with that information once we are informed of Christ's salvation. That would be how I see it.
     
  10. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    Here is the full quote:

    Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise. And do not listen to those who say that everyone will be saved. This is trap of Satan so that we won’t struggle.
    – St. Paisios of Mt. Athos


    Struggle to gain Paradise? So Christ has not restored Paradise for all mankind? It sounds like Holy Father Saint Paisios is saying that unless we struggle, we do not get saved.
     
  11. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Ah, I was sure you were going to go to the very next verse there in Ephesians 2, verse 10. :=)
     
  12. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It sounds very much like the parable of the talents, does it not?
     
  13. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    except that God also rewards those who labor from the first as He does the last. so God is unjust, if our understanding of justice is worldly.
     
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