Work Out Your Own Salvation

[Victor in Christ]

Can you tell me how any of this addresses my post?

i don't know how to answer some of your posts. It a burden i can't carry or answer. Christ carried all our burdens and had the answer for every 'law'. Its something we as humans can not do and will never be able to do.

god bless

 

[Victor in Christ]

 

[Mr. M]

Thank you. I have never taught against the New Covenant books. Actually I believe that the covenants with mankind, are progressive, beginning with the Adamic covenant, through the Brit Chadasha. I apologize for any ambiguity that could have been inferred from my post.

This is why the covenants with mankind are not progressive, but One.
Your statement is from the perspective of a man of the earth, anchored in time.
John 3:31. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and
speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. [John the Baptist]
John 8:23. And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world;
I am not of this world.
Colossians 3:
1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is,
sitting at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

When you are born from above, and apply the wisdom from above as you read Romans 4
and Galatians 3, and how Paul is teaching from Genesis 12 and 15 that he is presenting the
Gospel as the fulfillment of the promise and the oath made to Abraham.
When the Father spoke these words, the reality existed in heaven by that Word,
as it is the very power of creation.
Therefore, Peter could say:
1 Peter 1:
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied
of the grace that would come to you,
11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ Who was in them was indicating
when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

We hold this Truth as self-evident by the Holy Spirit:
"For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 19:10
And so we have no difficulty, as did the Jews of Jerusalem in His day,
with comprehending His Words:
John 8:
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.
57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.

I hope and pray that this assists you as you pursue the Truth, only by the Spirit of Truth.
1 John 2:
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning.
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in
the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

1 Corinthians 2:
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes,
the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?
Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit Who is from God,
that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which
the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[HARK!]

This is why the covenants with mankind are not progressive, but One.
Your statement is from the perspective of a man of the earth, anchored in time.

That understanding is in contradiction to scripture.

(CLV) Gn 9:9
And as for Me, now I am setting up My covenant with you and with your seed after you,

When? "Now," at that point in time. This was a new covenant.

(CLV) Gn 9:11
And I will confirm My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a deluge, and never again shall there be a deluge to wreck the entire earth.

This is a standing covenant; but it didn't exist from the beginning. If it had; YHWH would have withheld consideration of this covenant. We know that this is not the case.

 

[Mr. M]

Galatians 3:15. Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though only a man’s covenant,
yet confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
You can continue to see things from the earth, or "Set your mind on things above."
Your choice will define your comprehension.
James 3:
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct his works
in the meekness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield,
full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

 

[Victor in Christ]

If you are continuously filled with the Ruach; how is it that you don't know me?

in this flesh you will never know him fully until that great day of union, feasting, etc. Christ may give you a small foretaste of heaven to convince you. You might have to live a life of suffering with faith in Christ as your hope. Every individual is different, every tribe of Israel was different, every disciple/Apostle was different....and so are we.

 

[Mr. M]

That understanding is in contradiction to scripture.

(CLV) Gn 9:9
And as for Me, now I am setting up My covenant with you and with your seed after you,

When? "Now," at that point in time. This was a new covenant.

(CLV) Gn 9:11
And I will confirm My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a deluge, and never again shall there be a deluge to wreck the entire earth.

This is a standing covenant; but it didn't exist from the beginning. If it had; YHWH would have withheld consideration of this covenant. We know that this is not the case.

Genesis 9:
4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

Hebrews 9:22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without
shedding of blood is no remission.

1 Peter 1:
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your
aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest
in these last times for you.
21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so
that your faith and hope are in God.

Revelation 13:8. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written
in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 12:11. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

In conclusion, those who are In Christ and born from above have the most perfect comprehension
of the Father's plan for His relationship to man. If indeed His Son is the Lamb who was slain before
the foundation of the world, then the Word of God is indeed timeless.
Breaking the revelation of His Son into dispensations is an earthly enterprise of men of the earth.
From heaven, we must receive!
Deuteronomy 6:4. (TLV) Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

What was YHVH's original intent for Israel?
Exodus 19:
5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.
Numbers 25:
12 Therefore say, ‘Behold, I give to him My covenant of peace;
13 and it shall be to him and his descendants after him a covenant of an everlasting priesthood,
because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the children of Israel.

Was this in fact a new and different covenant, or simply an acknowledgment of those
who are zealous for The Father's Will?
Does the testimony of Yeshua fulfill His Father's word?
John 6:63. It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I
speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.
1 Peter 2:
4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
"The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
8 and “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people,
that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy
but now have obtained mercy.

Is the Lord making new covenants, or establishing an elect to fulfill His Father's Will?
John 4:24. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

The intimacy of the relationship desired with Adam was first confirmed through David:
2 Samuel 7:14. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity,
I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.
Hebrews 2:10. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things in
bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Romans 8:29. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image
of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
2 Corinthians 6:18. I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty.

 

[AbbaLove]

in this flesh you will never know him fully until that great day of union, feasting, etc. Christ may give you a small foretaste of heaven to convince you. You might have to live a life of suffering with faith in Christ as your hope. Every individual is different, every tribe of Israel was different, every disciple/Apostle was different....and so are we.

You're telling us something as if it's not already common knowledge to mature Messianic Believers in Yeshua HaMashiach.

So here's a question I'd be interested in your insight at this point along your Christian journey. How do you interpret Titus 3:5-6 from your own salvation experience to date ... not some theological commentary ... but how His Spirit has touched you (regeneration & renewal) in an amazing way. OK, that could take a book, but in 50 words. So, from your own unique experience how would you define your own "regeneration" and renewing ?

5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, (AMP)​

Here's three more translations from a Messianic Jewish perspective ...

5 He saved us, not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His compassion, through the washing of rebirth, and renewal by the Set-apart Spirit,
6 which He poured out on us richly through יהושע Messiah our Saviour, (ISR)

5 not by works in righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, He saved us through the washing or regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Yahshua Messiah, our Saviour; (HRB)

5 he delivered us. It was not on the ground of any righteous deeds we had done, but on the ground of his own mercy. He did it by means of the mikveh of rebirth and the renewal brought about by the Ruach HaKodesh,
6 whom he poured out on us generously through Yeshua the Messiah, our Deliverer. (CJB)​

 

[Victor in Christ]

So here's a question I'd be interested in your insight at this point along your Christian journey. How do you interpret Titus 3:5-6 from your own salvation experience to date ... not some theological commentary ... but how His Spirit has touched you (regeneration & renewal) in an amazing way. OK, that could take a book, but in 50 words. So, from your own unique experience how would you define your own "regeneration" and renewing ?

5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, (AMP)​

Its slightly more than 50 words, but I've already posted it on this thread (post 18)

renewing is a continuous process through Christ's power (Holy Spirt), its the same as Ephesians 5:18.."but be filled with the Spirit;". Drinking wine to excess, taking drugs to get earthly pleasure etc, leads to a dulling down (a quenching of the Spirit).

God bless

 

[Mr. M]

2 Corinthians 3:18. TLV But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory—just as from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Romans 12:2. TLV Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the will of God—what is good and acceptable and perfect.

[G3339] metamorphoo

 

[AbbaLove]

Its slightly more than 50 words, but I've already posted it on this thread (post 18)
renewing is a continuous process through Christ's power (Holy Spirit), its the same as Ephesians 5:18.."but be filled with the Spirit;".

Yes! And as you may have noticed my spirit/Spirit saw fitting to acknowledge your post with a "Winner" that same Sunday. You are one of Adonai's "ekklesia" (Greek for "called out ones" from the world chosen by Him). Christendom refers to the "called out ones" as the "church".

What I was getting at was your understanding of Titus' reference to regeneration as a washing symbolized by an immersion in water? For example John the baptizer immersing Yeshua in water and arising from the water before the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove descended upon Him. And Yeshua saying, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." It's no coincidence that both John and Titus' reference are both found in 3:5.

In your spirit/Spirit do you think immersion in water (Acts 8:36-38) is a washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) as symbolized by the Jewish ritual washing (immersion) in a mikveh (bath)?

So, the age old question: Is the total immersion (water baptism) an example of a washing of regeneration ... knowing in your spirit that it must be followed by an immersion (renewal) of Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit). So, the age old question: Can a "called out one" be baptized by Ruach HaKodesh before a total water baptism immersion (washing of regeneration)? Everyone has their own belief based in no small measure on their theological indoctrination. What is His Spirit telling you ?

Acts 8:36-39 (CJB)
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”
[37]
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.​

In your spirit/Spirit is this an example of a chosen one by Adonai experiencing a washing of regeneration ?

 

[Victor in Christ]

​

Yes! And as you may have noticed my spirit/Spirit saw fitting to acknowledge your post with a "Winner" that same Sunday. You are one of Adonai's "ekklesia" (Greek for "called out ones" from the world chosen by Him). Christendom refers to the "called out ones" as the "church".

What I was getting at was your understanding of Titus' reference to regeneration as a washing symbolized by an immersion in water? For example John the baptizer immersing Yeshua in water and arising from the water before the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove descended upon Him. And Yeshua saying, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." It's no coincidence that both John and Titus' reference are both found in 3:5.

In your spirit/Spirit do you think immersion in water (Acts 8:36-38) is a washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) as symbolized by the Jewish ritual washing (immersion) in a mikveh (bath)?

So, the age old question: Is the total immersion (water baptism) an example of a washing of regeneration ... knowing in your spirit that it must be followed by an immersion (renewal) of Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit). So, the age old question: Can a "called out one" be baptized by Ruach HaKodesh before a total water baptism immersion (washing of regeneration)? Everyone has their own belief based in no small measure on their theological indoctrination. What is His Spirit telling you ?

Acts 8:36-39 (CJB)
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”
[37]
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.​

In your spirit/Spirit is this an example of a chosen one by Adonai experiencing a washing of regeneration ?

John 3:5 was the verse which triggered it. the Greek word 'hudor' (the waters at the beginning of creation to the living waters in Rev 22:17). I looked at all the verses in the bible from beginning to end about water, got to sleep, woke up and was totally immersed in Christ's love/joy, think i tasted heaven for about 10-20 secs and the best way i can describe it, is 100 times more bliss than taking an Ecstasy tablet with no side effect or down side. The joy lasted 3 days and then an inner peace, which is still within and i know Christ is growing stronger within me by the day and i'm hating the things of the world more and more. Its not the physical element of being baptised by water, its what the water represents to the believer.

Christ came to me twice, once to convict me and i knew there was more, its like he was saying, i want more from you, i have that peace your longing for...i contacted my mum's minister and asked him can i get baptised without being a member of a church, he said "yes, I've done it before"...i was so screwed up back then, i hadn't a clue what was going on.

Read the first post i made on this forum, i've it linked here. It will give you an insight, its all beginning to make more sense as i'm now settled within and found true peace with Christ. He's actually got me to do some work for him and i've ordered a laminating machine. That's another strange way he has worked, i can't go into it all right now, I believe Christ speaks to everyone differently.

there's another poster on here who summed it up well on the 'baptised in the holy spirit thread' in the testimony section. 'If you haven't found inner peace with Christ, you need to move onto the doctrine of baptisms and the laying on of hands.

God bless.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

​

Yes! And as you may have noticed my spirit/Spirit saw fitting to acknowledge your post with a "Winner" that same Sunday. You are one of Adonai's "ekklesia" (Greek for "called out ones" from the world chosen by Him). Christendom refers to the "called out ones" as the "church".

What I was getting at was your understanding of Titus' reference to regeneration as a washing symbolized by an immersion in water? For example John the baptizer immersing Yeshua in water and arising from the water before the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove descended upon Him. And Yeshua saying, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." It's no coincidence that both John and Titus' reference are both found in 3:5.

In your spirit/Spirit do you think immersion in water (Acts 8:36-38) is a washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) as symbolized by the Jewish ritual washing (immersion) in a mikveh (bath)?

So, the age old question: Is the total immersion (water baptism) an example of a washing of regeneration ... knowing in your spirit that it must be followed by an immersion (renewal) of Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit). So, the age old question: Can a "called out one" be baptized by Ruach HaKodesh before a total water baptism immersion (washing of regeneration)? Everyone has their own belief based in no small measure on their theological indoctrination. What is His Spirit telling you ?

Acts 8:36-39 (CJB)
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”
[37]
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.​

In your spirit/Spirit is this an example of a chosen one by Adonai experiencing a washing of regeneration ?

I'm 100% sure that I was called out and filled with the Holy Spirit before I was baptized.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

I don't speak for "the Jews." I speak for myself. People are people. We're individuals. Each one can think for himself. What would make you think that "Jews" are any different?

Precepts are different than commandments. That is why two different words are used.

Here is a thread that begins to reflect a study of some of the terms that YHWH uses; as he calls us to obey him: Charge, Commandments, Statutes, and Laws



There are precepts of men; and there are precepts of YHWH. We can discern the difference by in which context the English word "precept" is used.



They weren't too difficult to follow before Yahshua came in the flesh.

This what Moses said after YHWH gave his instructions, statutes, and ordinances, in the Book of the Law, at Sinai:

(CLV) Dt 30:10
when you hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe His instructions and His statutes, the ones written in this scroll of the law, once you return to Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:11
For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.



Baptism and laying of hands are nothing new. They're works.

Do you have an aversion to the word Jew?

 

[visionary]

i don't know how to answer some of your posts. It a burden i can't carry or answer. Christ carried all our burdens and had the answer for every 'law'. Its something we as humans can not do and will never be able to do.

god bless

What is God's ultimate goal? Is it not for His people to do His Will? Before the fall, was man able to live perfect harmony with Him? After the thousand years, when eternity reigns, will man be able to live in perfect harmony again with Him? How can anyone doubt the God can accomplish this?

 

[HARK!]

Do you have an aversion to the word Jew?

About the same as my aversion to the word Jesus.

The letter J didn't exist until about the year 1600. It's not a Hebrew letter. Neither word gives glory to our heavenly father, as do the Hebrew renderings.

I prefer Yahudim and Yahshua.

 

[pinacled]

About the same as my aversion to the word Jesus.

The letter J didn't exist until about the year 1600. It's not a Hebrew letter. Neither word gives glory to our heavenly father, as do the Hebrew renderings.

I prefer Yahudim and Yahshua.

Neither is the letter (w) a hebrew consonant.
Why do you have no aversion to its use?

 

[Rachel Rachel]

About the same as my aversion to the word Jesus.

The letter J didn't exist until about the year 1600. It's not a Hebrew letter. Neither word gives glory to our heavenly father, as do the Hebrew renderings.

I prefer Yahudim and Yahshua.

Yes, about the same as my feelings toward someone who would give Yeshua a name he never answered to like Yahshua.

 

[HARK!]

Neither is the letter (w) a hebrew consonant.
Why do you have no aversion to its use?

I believe that you are mistaken. If you study carefully; you should find that the letter Vav was introduced as a variation of Waw or Bet. I'd have to review my notes.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, about the same as my feelings toward someone who would give Yeshua a name he never answered to like Yahshua.

Never say never. I study Ancient Hebrew.