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Work Out Your Own Salvation

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by HARK!, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    Philippians 2:12-13
    Young's Literal Translation


    12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, (there's a keyword) not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,

    13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    It appears that Paul is telling us that we must be obedient as we work with YHWH for his good pleasure.
     
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  2. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    Romans 12: YLT
    I call upon you, therefore, brethren, through the compassions of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice - living, sanctified, acceptable to God - your intelligent service;

    2 and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God -- the good, and acceptable, and perfect.
     
  3. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    Verse 12 isn't new but very familiar. Sha`ul is hearkening back to Tehillah 2:

     
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  4. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    Paul exclusively quotes the TaNaK.
     
  5. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    People have reasoned the "trembling" part as something negative for centuries. Looking back at what Sha`ul referred to, that verse from not only one of the Tehillim but a Tehillah that is specifically speaking of Messiah, it turns the popular interpretation completely on its head.
     
  6. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    It goes to show us that without a fairly decent understanding of the TaNaK, that one will have a difficult time understanding the Brit Chadashah.
     
  7. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    It doesn't quite make sense for people to dismiss two-thirds of the Word and then claim to be an expert at it. It's sort of like being the Governor of California.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
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  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    2 Corinthians 5:
    9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent,
    to be well pleasing to Him.
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
    that each one may receive the things done in the body, according
    to what he has done, whether good or bad.
    11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
    but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in
    your consciences.
     
  9. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    'work out your own salvation' is another passage of scripture which says salvation is only between an individual and the Lord. No other person should be meddling and trying to work it out for you, its personal.

    Psalms 120:1, Psalms 120:5, Psalms 123:1 (singular), between David and the Lord.
    Isaiah 6:5 'woe is me'. (singular)

    god bless
     
  10. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    (CLV) Eph 2:10
    For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

    That's right. We must be obedient participants, in the works that our Father is performing through us, just as he did through Yahshua, to carry out his good works in our walk. Transgressing his Torah, is in rebellion to his word to us.
     
  11. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    Paul points out that good works are a result of salvation, not the reason for it. 'If you love me keep my commandments'. All 10 commandments hang on the 2 most important ones Christ told to the Pharisees. The characteristics of a true Christian who desires to keep Christ's commandments will become evident in that Christians life through the fruits of the Holy Spirit within them. Galatians 5:22-23 'love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control'

    Ephesians 2: 14-22 The unity created in Christ Jesus established a oneness among believers that transcended Israel and Judaism. Gentiles are no longer outcasts, but neither are they Jewish proselytes. Rather, they are fellow citizens with the Jews and equal members of God's household. All believers are part of the same structure, where Jesus is the cornerstone that supports and unites all the other components. And that structure, or building, as it turns out, is a temple where God resides.

    'I will destroy this man-made temple, and in three days I will build another that is made without hands.'"

    Ephesians 2:22. The scriptures declare that believers are growing “into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.” A temple made without hands. Our Bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. In 1 Peter 2:4-7 we read that Christians are “lively stones” a “holy priesthood” and “a Spiritual House”.

     
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  12. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    You transgress His Torah when you misinterpret Yahweh's literal instruction to Moshe and the Israelites in Exodus 12:6-14 (Aviv *14). Your very own misinterpretation differs from that of Rashi and ibn Ezra (the two most widely held interpretations) with Rashi's based on the Talmud (oral law) which is man's mistranslation--misinterpretation of Exodus 12:6-14.

    12:14 This will be a *day for you to remember and celebrate as a festival to Adonai;
    from generation to generation you are to celebrate it by a perpetual regulation.
    (CJB)​

    Those Passover instructions from Yahweh were not meant to be confusing to understand. The confusion of man-made rules was mentioned by Isaiah (8th Century BC), and later formalized into what today is the Babylonia Talmud (oral law), with its man-made traditions as further perpetuated through the centuries by Rabbinic Judaism to this very day ...

    Matthew 15:3
    3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"
    Matthew 15:7-9
    7 "You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
    8 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
    9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men’.”
    Matthew 15:12-14
    12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you not know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”
    13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
    14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

    NOTE: The older (oral law) is called the Jerusalem Talmud or the Talmud Yerushalmi. It was compiled in the 4th century in Galilee. The Babylonian Talmud was compiled c. 500, although it continued to be edited later. Thus two bodies of man-made analysis (oral law) developed with two works of Talmud being created. The word "Talmud", when used without qualification, usually refers to the Babylonian Talmud.
     
  13. Minister Monardo

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    Respectfully,
    This has been an edifying discussion on the topic of works and salvation. VictorInChrist has just made what I thought was an insightful point:
    "Paul points out that good works are a result of salvation, not the reason for it. 'If you love me keep my commandments'."
    I am a little thrown off by the dispute you are having with Hark over Passover timing being inserted here, just a bit off-topic. I noted that you even started your own OP to continue elaborating on your views.
    I suppose working out salvation might include working out disagreements with a brother.
    I wish you both well on that, but it is time for me to unwatch this thread.
    Seek Peace, and pursue it. Psalm 34:14.
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    Indeed, it is our father who is working in us as we submit to his will.

    From the OP:

    13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    The Father works to give us the will to come in to subjection to his will.

    Yahshua gives us his amazing example; as he knew what he was facing.

    (CLV) Lk 22:42
    saying, "Father, if it is Thy intention, carry aside this cup from Me.

    Notice the humility. Yahshsua didn't ask our Father carry aside the cup from him. He spoke in submission to our Father's intentions.


    However, not My will, but Thine, be done!"

    Then, in the face of the difficulty of the task at hand, he summarized with his willingness to submit to our Father's will.

    This is love.
     
  15. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    Matthew reports him as one of the Pharisees; but Mark calls him a scribe.

    More than just the 10 words hang on these two precepts. It is all of the Torah and the Prophets that hang on them.

    He asked what is the foremost precept. Yahshua recited the Shema. If we love YHWH with everything we have, as Yahshua did; we will obey all of his torah. How can we say that we love YHWH, yet not do his will to love our associate?

    I believe that the Shema, summarizes the two greatest precepts. The foremost precept clearly applies to the first part of the Decalogue; but it also summarizes the second part of the Decalogue. The second foremost precept clearly applies to the second part of the Decalogue.

    I believe that the Decalogue summarizes the "613."

    I believe that the "613" summarize what YHWH has written on the hearts of those committed to his will.
     
  16. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    No, it's the other way around. It is only when one is spiritually renewed that the TaNaKh comes alive as the Living Word of Yahweh revealing Yeshua as Israel's Messiah throughout the TaNaK.

    Shaul was spiritually blind as were the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin. Shaul (Paul) didn't really grasp the deeper spiritual meat in the TaNaK (e.g. Isaiah 53) until the Holy Spirit took up residence in Paul's heart and became Paul's one and only mentor/teacher ...

    1 John 2:27 (CJB)
    As for you, the Messianic anointing you received from the Father remains in you, so that you have no need for anyone to teach you. On the contrary, as his Messianic anointing continues to teach you about all things, and is true, not a counterfeit, so, just as he taught you, remain united with him.​

    Paul no longer needed Gamaliel as his mentor (a man held in great esteem by all Jews), but unfortunately spiritually blind to recognize Yeshua as Israel's Messiah in the TaNaK.

    When Yeshua's Apostles were anointed with His Holy Spirit they were able to see Yeshua as Messiah throughout the Tanakh. Torah means "instruction" and in a manner of speaking the Brit Chadashah is also GOD's Word to us through His anointed chosen ones such as Paul ...

    Thus, in order to really understand the TaNaK one must first be spiritually renewed as were the original Apostles and the Apostle Paul.

    HARK! has it backwards. In order to grasp the deeper spiritual truths of the TaNaKh one must first be spiritually renewed to the spiritual truths of the Ketuvei HaShalichim. The Apostolic Writings, commonly known as the New Testament given by the Breath/Spirit of Adonai. Only then can one grasp the spiritual truths of the TaNaK as did John (John 1:1-5 and 14) ...

    John 1:14 (CJB)
    The Word became a human being and lived with us, and we saw his Sh’khinah,
    the Sh’khinah of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.​
     
  17. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    Non sequitur. The Ruach is not the Brit Chadasha.

    The Brit Chadashah serves to further explain what is revealed in the TaNaK. Were Moses and the Prophets spiritually blind?

    What about Abraham? Was he spiritually blind?
     
  18. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    Many people have understood it 'backwards' from the day Christ came down from heaven for our Salvation and its still happening today, myself included. Christ came knocking to me (to be more precise he came banging this time at my heart). I accepted him in and made a vow 'i will follow Lord where you want me to'. I went through months of turmoil......but Christ wouldn't let go of me, he got me deeper into the bible on a spiritual level, a level i never knew existed.

    Christ offered me the cup of peace, I drank from the cup (spiritually), that cup of life that provides an inner peace in Christ (that living water) offered to the Jews on the last day of the feast, that cup from the pool of Siloam. Such bliss i received through faith, such assurance but still confused..... I couldn't stop talking about the living waters to mum and dad and others. An inner peace followed few days after, an inner desire to follow the vow i had made to him, he directed me to the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23 and to keep his commandments.

    Through all Jobs problems God came to him at the end like a whirlwind and eventually blessed him. Faith in Christ is key, he'll create a desire within you to know more about him spiritually and grow one day at a time through faith until he gives you that assurance. Satan, the world, its man-made laws and all its lusts are not for the Christian, although the world can be tempting and we can be lured back in, but faith and Christ's love for us brings us out.

    God Bless
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  19. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    a scribe to who? the Pharisees, same difference. Baruch was the scribe to Jeremiah, the scribe penned it. The authority came from heaven down to Jeremiah through the power of the 3rd person of the trinity.

    If you desire to work out your salvation by obedience to laws other than the 2 Christ gave and obedience to the 10 commandments, i nor no one other can stop you. I pray Christ will tell you how to work out your salvation, not any man, nor custom, or man-made laws.

    God bless
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  20. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    I see no way to obey the foremost precept, the Shema, without listening to every word that YHWH declares.

    From the Decalogue:

    (CLV) Ex 20:6
    yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

    From Yahshua who spoke his Father's words:

    (CLV) Jn 14:15
    If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

    From Yahshua's disciple:

    (CLV) 1Jn 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


    I follow Yahshua.
     
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