Word Study Isaiah 7:14

[Faithful Scuff]

What are the thoughts of others on the passage Isaiah 7:14? I am curious as to the term Almah (e·olme) used in the original Hebrew. It would appear to me at this time that the passage does not mention virgin but maiden or young woman. The trouble with relying on others translation or even direct word for word is that we are dependent on their understanding and interpretations.

The OT texts were mainly written in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic. And the NT is in Greek.

In about 300 BCE the OT was translated from Hebrew to Greek (septuagint) because most people could no longer read or speak Hebrew. Greek was the main language until after the time of Jesus.

When the OT was translated to Greek the word Almah was translated as parthenos. I would believe that the leaders of the time of translation accepted the translation or would have insisted on it being changed.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa7.pdf

In the link above we ahve Hebrew text with hopefully direct english translation.
Notice הַעְלָמה e·olme which I have found to translate to Almah. The english below the Hebrew never mentions virgin until you look to the right column where the verse is translated to common english.

Hebrew Almah translates maiden, maid, young woman some add virgin but is that just the greek influence?
Hebrew betulah translates to virgin which appears 50 times in the bible but not in Isaiah 7:14
Greek parthenos translates virgin
The new testament written in Greek uses parthenos which is combination of Almah and betulah I have found.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What are the thoughts of others on the passage Isaiah 7:14? I am curious as to the term Almah (e·olme) used in the original Hebrew. It would appear to me at this time that the passage does not mention virgin but maiden or young woman. The trouble with relying on others translation or even direct word for word is that we are dependent on their understanding and interpretations.

"the trouble" is very common on earth.

Think for a while on this: is there anywhere in HIS WORD,
that YHWH(GOD) give understanding of HIS WORD ?

Is there anyplace in HIS WORD,
that YESHUA HAMASHIACH (JESUS The MESSIAH) "opens the minds" of His disciples so they understand HIS WORD ?

 

[faroukfarouk]

What are the thoughts of others on the passage Isaiah 7:14? I am curious as to the term Almah (e·olme) used in the original Hebrew. It would appear to me at this time that the passage does not mention virgin but maiden or young woman. The trouble with relying on others translation or even direct word for word is that we are dependent on their understanding and interpretations.

The OT texts were mainly written in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic. And the NT is in Greek.

In about 300 BCE the OT was translated from Hebrew to Greek (septuagint) because most people could no longer read or speak Hebrew. Greek was the main language until after the time of Jesus.

When the OT was translated to Greek the word Almah was translated as parthenos. I would believe that the leaders of the time of translation accepted the translation or would have insisted on it being changed.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa7.pdf

In the link above we ahve Hebrew text with hopefully direct english translation.
Notice הַעְלָמה e·olme which I have found to translate to Almah. The english below the Hebrew never mentions virgin until you look to the right column where the verse is translated to common english.

Hebrew Almah translates maiden, maid, young woman some add virgin but is that just the greek influence?
Hebrew betulah translates to virgin which appears 50 times in the bible but not in Isaiah 7:14
Greek parthenos translates virgin
The new testament written in Greek uses parthenos which is combination of Almah and betulah I have found.

It's not a miracle promise if a non-virgin's son - sinful by definition - is in view. The passage would not make much sense.

 

[Faithful Scuff]

It's not a miracle promise if a non-virgin's son - sinful by definition - is in view.

Understood that there would be no miracle the way the original Hebrew text seems to read. Sinful in what way to dig into Gods word or the text itself? Please elaborate.

 

[Faithful Scuff]

The reasons for the thread are

1. To look into Gods word in the original text.
   
2. Try to understand the meaning of the original Hebrew text.
3. Discover where the original text may have been changed/altered either on purpose because of language barriers or do to not understanding the true meaning of the original text, through the many translations until the modern english bible we have today.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Virgin or `almah 5959

Shows this is used 7 times this way

virgin 4, maid 2, damsels 1

Used for finding a wife for Isaac

Gen 24:43 Behold, I stand by the well of water; and it shall come to pass, that when the virgin (`almah) 5959 cometh forth to draw water, and I say to her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of thy pitcher to drink;

In combination with woman in the next verse

Gen 24:44 And she say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman ('ishshah) 802 whom the LORD hath appointed out for my master's son.

So `almah and 'ishshah are used together in the above speaking of the same person

The woman, 'ishshah 802 is shown in many ways as

wife 425, woman 324, one 10, married 5, female 2, misc 14

And even qualified in this way in this verse here

Numbers 21:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women 802 that had not known man by lying with him.

Virgin is also used here

Virgin or bĕthuwlah 1330

Showing its used in this way

virgin 38, maid 7, maiden 5

And can be shown qualified here too

Judges 21:12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, 1330 that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.


Just as virgin (or`almah ) is used for Mary, or Isaacs wife (to be) along with another word for woman ('ishshah) in the next verse. It is also shown elsewhere to be qualified in respects to virgins, or rather those women (or 'ishshah) that had not known a man by lying with him

Mary in the OT referred to as a virgin or`almah 5959 here

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin (`almah) 5959 shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Which again, is used 4 times for virgin, 2 for maid, and 1 for damsels

When told she would conceive and bear a son by the angel

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

A virgin or parthenos 3933

Speaking of the same Mary in the NT it says

Luke 1:27 To a virgin 3933 espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Which is also defined here

1) a virgin
a) a marriageable maiden
b) a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man
c) one's marriageable daughter
2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity
a) one who has never had intercourse with women

Paul uses this one in reference to Mary

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman 1135, made under the law,

Woman or gynē 1135 here

Used of these

women 129, wife 92

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman

Of 'almah 5959 which is used in Isaiah 7:14 prophecy, shows

virgin, young woman

1. of marriageable age
   
   
2. maid or newly married
   
   "There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.)

 

[Faithful Scuff]

I don't want people to miss understand, I do in fact believe in the virgin birth and there is proof in other places as in John 1:14 This is the original greek to english
I had edit because I did not proof read it ended up saying I don't believe when in fact I do. Grrr auto correct.

Also in Luke 1:26-28 Again from the original Greek to english

I use this site as a study tool as it hopefully removes translations and show me the exact translation so I can come to my own conclusions.
So I am not saying there was not a virgin birth because there clearly was, what I am trying to get at is the translation could be off in some of the versus.

 

[JIMINZ]

What are the thoughts of others on the passage Isaiah 7:14? I am curious as to the term Almah (e·olme) used in the original Hebrew. It would appear to me at this time that the passage does not mention virgin but maiden or young woman. The trouble with relying on others translation or even direct word for word is that we are dependent on their understanding and interpretations.

The OT texts were mainly written in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic. And the NT is in Greek.

In about 300 BCE the OT was translated from Hebrew to Greek (septuagint) because most people could no longer read or speak Hebrew. Greek was the main language until after the time of Jesus.

When the OT was translated to Greek the word Almah was translated as parthenos. I would believe that the leaders of the time of translation accepted the translation or would have insisted on it being changed.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa7.pdf

In the link above we ahve Hebrew text with hopefully direct english translation.
Notice הַעְלָמה e·olme which I have found to translate to Almah. The english below the Hebrew never mentions virgin until you look to the right column where the verse is translated to common english.

Hebrew Almah translates maiden, maid, young woman some add virgin but is that just the greek influence?
Hebrew betulah translates to virgin which appears 50 times in the bible but not in Isaiah 7:14
Greek parthenos translates virgin
The new testament written in Greek uses parthenos which is combination of Almah and betulah I have found.

.
I could go into a lot deeper drawn out reply but I think this will suffice..... well I hope it does.

We should not confuse these two words, because they are very distinct in their Definitions.



H5959 - VIRGIN = ALMAH
עלמה
‛almâh
al-maw'
Feminine of H5958; a lass (as veiled or private): - damsel, maid, virgin.

H5958 - E-LEM - young child, boy or girl
עלם
‛elem
eh'-lem
From H5956; properly something kept out of sight (compare H5959), that is, a lad: - young man, stripling.

H5956
עלם
‛âlam
aw-lam'
A primitive root; to veil from sight, that is, conceal (literally or figuratively): - X any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing).


The word used in the Original Hebrew was (E-OLME) thus signifying a (Young Child) - (Boy - or Girl) no physical distinction being made.

Let me explain where the physical distinction actually does come into play.

The distinction is made, when the (E-OLEM) (Young Child) is spoken of in such a way as to determine or to designate something which the (E-OLEM) is or does, such as (Being Pregnant- Giving Birth) at that moment we know the (E_OLEM) being spoken of is therefore a (Young Girl) ie, (Damsel, Lass, Maden, Virgin)

At this point the reader of the Isa. 7:14 Original Hebrew understood the (E-OLEM) being spoken of was a (Girl, Virgin).

Therefore when the Translators took the Original Hebrew, and changed it into the Greek (Septuagint) they put in the Physical Understanding of the word (E-OLEM) into Virgin (ALMAH).

Therefore technically, both words are correct, depending on whether you are reading in the Original Hebrew or in the Greek Translation, either way the passage is understood to be a (Young Girl) (Virgin),

I will add this as my own understanding.

In those times the understanding of a (Virgin) was, a (Young Unmarried Girl), the benefit of the doubt was given or understood to be true unless proven otherwise.

We today automatically understand the word (Virgin) to be defined as (Chaste, Pure).

 

[faroukfarouk]

Understood that there would be no miracle the way the original Hebrew text seems to read. Sinful in what way to dig into Gods word or the text itself? Please elaborate.

I was suggesting that if there was an earthly father, then sin would have been passed on: unthinkable.

 

[Faithful Scuff]

I could go into a lot deeper drawn out reply but I think this will suffice..... well I hope it does.

It does and thank you, I was talking to my daughter today and she is a bible college grad and she was saying that without an intimate understanding of a language it is still hard to tell what is being said. I think this is a prime example.

 

[miamited]

Hi rbsibew,

So, let me ask you, if God intended for us to understand, through the prophet Isaiah, that a young woman/maiden would be with child - how would that be a sign to us? Young women and maidens (of course we likely need to find out what 'maiden' meant in those days as to the type of woman that it inferred) have children all the time. Young women, at least today, are the most prolific child bearers. The vast majority of children born these days are to women under 25. So, how would a young woman being with child be some sign to us from God?

I agree with you that even if we use the word 'almah' to be 'maiden', what did it mean to call a woman a 'maiden' in 600 B.C.? Many of us have a tendency to think of 'maiden' as was used in Elizabethan England. It was merely a fair woman, although we honestly can't say for sure that during that period 'maiden' didn't carry with it the connotation that the fair woman was young and had not yet been with a man. In those days, if a woman had slept with a man who was not her husband, she was generally referred to in more defaming terms.

I think we have to be careful when defining words that were used centuries ago, not by how they might be defined today, but by how they were defined then. Today, many young women tend to sleep around long before they are married, but still some man now enamored of her beauty might refer to her as his fair maiden. Would such a term be used of such a woman in 600 B.C.? I rather contend that in 600 B.C. when a man referred to a woman as a 'maiden' the he was in effect referring to her as a young woman who had not yet been sullied by sexual intercourse. Therefore, one can translate 'almah' as 'virgin' or 'maiden', but the implication of her having not had sexual relations would have been the same in 600 B.C.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[hedrick]

There are two meanings of the passage: the one from Isaiah's day, and its application to Jesus. In the original use, this was a sign for Ahaz. Unless you think there were two virgin births, the woman referred to there wouldn't have been a virgin. Hence when translating the OT, it should be translated "young woman."

The NT, like 1st Cent Jews in general, quite often takes OT passages, and sees them as models for current events. Thus John is seen as Elijah, etc. Following this type of usage, Matthew applies Is 7:14 to Jesus. The application is helped by the fact that the common Greek translation used "virgin" for the passage. However I maintain that he would have used it anyway.

 

[omega2xx]

What are the thoughts of others on the passage Isaiah 7:14? I am curious as to the term Almah (e·olme) used in the original Hebrew. It would appear to me at this time that the passage does not mention virgin but maiden or young woman. The trouble with relying on others translation or even direct word for word is that we are dependent on their understanding and interpretations.

The OT texts were mainly written in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic. And the NT is in Greek.

In about 300 BCE the OT was translated from Hebrew to Greek (septuagint) because most people could no longer read or speak Hebrew. Greek was the main language until after the time of Jesus.

When the OT was translated to Greek the word Almah was translated as parthenos. I would believe that the leaders of the time of translation accepted the translation or would have insisted on it being changed.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa7.pdf

In the link above we ahve Hebrew text with hopefully direct english translation.
Notice הַעְלָמה e·olme which I have found to translate to Almah. The english below the Hebrew never mentions virgin until you look to the right column where the verse is translated to common english.

Hebrew Almah translates maiden, maid, young woman some add virgin but is that just the greek influence?
Hebrew betulah translates to virgin which appears 50 times in the bible but not in Isaiah 7:14
Greek parthenos translates virgin
The new testament written in Greek uses parthenos which is combination of Almah and betulah I have found.

Charles Feinberg, a jew and expert in hebrew says "alma" means a maiden who is a virgin. IMO, God used alma to distringuish a young girl from an old virgin. Also Rebekah is called an alma in Gen 24:43 and a bethulah in Gen 24:16

 

[Radagast]

Greek parthenos translates virgin

Correct. It is used several times in the N.T. with that meaning.

The new testament written in Greek uses parthenos which is combination of Almah and betulah I have found.

The word parthenos is a Greek word. It is not "combination of Almah and betulah."

 

[Radagast]

I agree with you that even if we use the word 'almah' to be 'maiden', what did it mean to call a woman a 'maiden' in 600 B.C.? Many of us have a tendency to think of 'maiden' as was used in Elizabethan England. It was merely a fair woman, although we honestly can't say for sure that during that period 'maiden' didn't carry with it the connotation that the fair woman was young and had not yet been with a man.

Even the Elizabethan English word "maiden" (or the shortened form "maid") quite explicitly mean "virgin." It did not mean "merely a fair woman."

See for example the related words "maidenhead" (meaning "hymen" or "virginity") and the older word "maidehede" (meaning "celibacy" or "virginity"). Shakespeare has a lot of very coarse sexual humour involving maidenheads.

The original meaning of "maiden" survives in modern English in terms like "maiden voyage," meaning the first ever voyage that a ship takes.

 

[Radagast]

I use this site as a study tool as it hopefully removes translations and show me the exact translation so I can come to my own conclusions.
So I am not saying there was not a virgin birth because there clearly was, what I am trying to get at is the translation could be off in some of the versus.

Well, a word study website like that is no substitute for a good translation by a translator who actually knows Greek. And in fact, there are several errors on the images you posted.

 

[mark kennedy]

Virgin or `almah 5959

Shows this is used 7 times this way

virgin 4, maid 2, damsels 1

Used for finding a wife for Isaac

Gen 24:43 Behold, I stand by the well of water; and it shall come to pass, that when the virgin (`almah) 5959 cometh forth to draw water, and I say to her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of thy pitcher to drink;

In combination with woman in the next verse

Gen 24:44 And she say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman ('ishshah) 802 whom the LORD hath appointed out for my master's son.

So `almah and 'ishshah are used together in the above speaking of the same person

The woman, 'ishshah 802 is shown in many ways as

wife 425, woman 324, one 10, married 5, female 2, misc 14

And even qualified in this way in this verse here

Numbers 21:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women 802 that had not known man by lying with him.

Virgin is also used here

Virgin or bĕthuwlah 1330

Showing its used in this way

virgin 38, maid 7, maiden 5

And can be shown qualified here too

Judges 21:12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, 1330 that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.


Just as virgin (or`almah ) is used for Mary, or Isaacs wife (to be) along with another word for woman ('ishshah) in the next verse. It is also shown elsewhere to be qualified in respects to virgins, or rather those women (or 'ishshah) that had not known a man by lying with him

Mary in the OT referred to as a virgin or`almah 5959 here

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin (`almah) 5959 shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Which again, is used 4 times for virgin, 2 for maid, and 1 for damsels

When told she would conceive and bear a son by the angel

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

A virgin or parthenos 3933

Speaking of the same Mary in the NT it says

Luke 1:27 To a virgin 3933 espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Which is also defined here

1) a virgin
a) a marriageable maiden
b) a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man
c) one's marriageable daughter
2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity
a) one who has never had intercourse with women

Paul uses this one in reference to Mary

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman 1135, made under the law,

Woman or gynē 1135 here

Used of these

women 129, wife 92

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman

Of 'almah 5959 which is used in Isaiah 7:14 prophecy, shows

virgin, young woman

1. of marriageable age
   
   
2. maid or newly married
   
   "There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.)

Nicely done, you saved me the trouble of tracking all that down.

 

[hedrick]

Nicely done, you saved me the trouble of tracking all that down.

Yeah, but you might want to look at Prov 30:19. (Indeed 30:20 makes some scholars think the reference is specifically to an adulterous woman, though I'm not convinced.) Conveniently not listed in the quotation. There are also a couple of non-Biblical references. And in the other quotations there's nothing from the context to make it likely that the virginity of the woman is being referred to specifically. The assertion is that there's no way to prove that the women referred to weren't virgin. That's far from saying that the meaning of the word is virgin.

Again, I point out that the original point of the passage was to talk about a sign for Ahaz. That would have to be a woman he knew. I doubt there was a second virgin birth in Ahaz' time. 7:16 makes it clear that this was a sign that was to happen soon.

 

[miamited]

Even the Elizabethan English word "maiden" (or the shortened form "maid") quite explicitly mean "virgin." It did not mean "merely a fair woman."

See for example the related words "maidenhead" (meaning "hymen" or "virginity") and the older word "maidehede" (meaning "celibacy" or "virginity"). Shakespeare has a lot of very coarse sexual humour involving maidenheads.

The original meaning of "maiden" survives in modern English in terms like "maiden voyage," meaning the first ever voyage that a ship takes.

Hi ragast,

I agree with you that in Elizabethan England maiden referred to, what I believe they referred to as a chaste woman. Meaning unmarried and undefiled.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[mark kennedy]

Yeah, but you might want to look at Prov 30:19. (Indeed 30:20 makes some scholars think the reference is specifically to an adulterous woman, though I'm not convinced.) Conveniently not listed in the quotation. There are also a couple of non-Biblical references. And in the other quotations there's nothing from the context to make it likely that the virginity of the woman is being referred to specifically. The assertion is that there's no way to prove that the women referred to weren't virgin. That's far from saying that the meaning of the word is virgin.

Again, I point out that the original point of the passage was to talk about a sign for Ahaz. That would have to be a woman he knew. I doubt there was a second virgin birth in Ahaz' time. 7:16 makes it clear that this was a sign that was to happen soon.

I'm at work on a cell, going on BLB is too much trouble. It's one of those words that are general enough that the context determine the meaning but I'll have to check the Strongs to be sure. I've been hearing this for years but never took it seriously enough to look it up. The word appears to mean young, unmarried thus by implication a virgin. Everything in Israel was received by inheritance, a girl gets pregnant before marriage would literally ruin her life without remedy. This is exactly what the prophecy is indicating, the virgin birth.