Word of God-Holy Spirit-Jesus Christ

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garry2

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The Father - God Almighty
The Son - Jesus Christ
The Holy Spirit - (the word of god who became Jesus Christ?) < I added.
Here's why I think this.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.
According to John 1:1 in the beginning there were only two in the Godhead.
God and His Word - (His Spirit?) < I added.
Gen. 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In Gen 1:2 we see it is the Spirit of God Creating.
And in John 1:3 we are told that the Word of God who became Jesus Christ Created all things.
Is the Word of God who became Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit?

It looks like it.

1Enoch is not part of our Bible, but it also supports this.
1 Enoch XLVIII. The Fount of Righteousness: the Son of Man -the Stay of the Righteous: Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty.
48

1
And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
2
And at that hour that Son of Man was named
In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.
3
Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
4
He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.
5
All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.
6
And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.
7
And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.
Verse 5 says all who dwell on earth should fall down and worship Him - (Jesus christ) and further says and will celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.
Here Jesus is also called the Lord of Spirits which is how 1Enoch adresses the Holy Spirit.
Verse 7 says referring to the Lord of Spirits - for in His name they are saved, whereby the Acts 4:12 says Jesus is the only name given us to be saved by.
1Enoch says we are saved by the Lord of Spirits, and the Acts 4:12 says we are saved by Jesus.

the acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The Word of God is the Holy Spirit who became Jesus Christ?

It looks that way to me.
 

HypnoToad

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I'd say the Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus.

Read in John 15 and 16, where Jesus speaks a bit about the Holy Spirit. Jesus clearly refers to the Holy Spirit as a different person than Himself. Jesus calls Him "ANOTHER comforter", and Jesus says "I will send Him," and "He will glorify me," - a very unlikely way to be referring to Himself.
 
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garry2

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I'd say the Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus.

Read in John 15 and 16, where Jesus speaks a bit about the Holy Spirit. Jesus clearly refers to the Holy Spirit as a different person than Himself. Jesus calls Him "ANOTHER comforter", and Jesus says "I will send Him," and "He will glorify me," - a very unlikely way to be referring to Himself.
God is one God and three diffrent persons(dietys)

It is right for Jesus to say "I will send you another Comforter".




What I have said in above posts is that the word of God is the Holy Spirit. Just two diffrent names for the one person.

And the Word of god became Jesus Christ.
 
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xPJJx

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the word is no the Holy Spirt the word is jesus!

This is 1 of the difficultest textes in the bible my friend

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

you post this ok i continue

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

the word is the light

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognise him.

the word is the light and the light Jesus so the word is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. and the light is also not the Holy Spirit.

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' From the fulness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

(sorry for my bad spelling:))
 
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HypnoToad

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God is one God and three diffrent persons(dietys)

It is right for Jesus to say "I will send you another Comforter".
The Holy Spirit is a diffrent person to Jesus Christ, but they are both the same God.

The word became Christ, not is Christ, they are two diffrent persons - one god.

What I have said in above posts is that the word of God is the Holy Spirit. Just two diffrent names for the one person.

And the Word of god became Jesus Christ.
First you say they are different persons, then you say it's one person (the bold portions).
 
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garry2

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the word is no the Holy Spirt the word is jesus!

This is 1 of the difficultest textes in the bible my friend

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

you post this ok i continue

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

the word is the light

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognise him.

the word is the light and the light Jesus so the word is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. and the light is also not the Holy Spirit.

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' From the fulness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

(sorry for my bad spelling:))
Yes the Word is Jesus, but is the Word also the Holy spirit.
We know that the word Jesus created all there is, and then we have Gen.1:2 showing the Spirit of God doing the creating.
Gen. 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The holy spirit is the servant of the Godhead of God the Father and the one who became Jesus Christ, and of course, the church. To get a good grasp of this read the account of the servant of Abraham procuring Rebekah for Isaac. The story contains the principle types of: God the Father (Abraham), Jesus Christ (Isaac), the Church (Rebekah), and the holy spirit (the servant). Notice that this servant is never called by name, but is referred to as the servant, or, man. It is also noteworthy that the servant is not a member of Abraham's begotten family. In that sense he is much like the angels, and in fact an angel accompanied him and would ensure that he was successful in his assignment.

Read the story carefully and you will begin to see how the holy spirit relates to the Godhead family of God and Jesus, but is not a member of the family.
 
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garry2

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The holy spirit is the servant of the Godhead of God the Father and the one who became Jesus Christ, and of course, the church.
But the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead.
Father Son and Holy Spirit.
To get a good grasp of this read the account of the servant of Abraham procuring Rebekah for Isaac. The story contains the principle types of: God the Father (Abraham), Jesus Christ (Isaac), the Church (Rebekah), and the holy spirit (the servant). Notice that this servant is never called by name, but is referred to as the servant, or, man. It is also noteworthy that the servant is not a member of Abraham's begotten family. In that sense he is much like the angels.

Read the story carefully and you will begin to see how the holy spirit relates to the Godhead of God and of Jesus.
God is a servant by nature, that is His way.
The Holy Spirit does serve us and so did Jesus serve.
But they are not just servants, they are also God.
 
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HypnoToad

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Yes you are right, it's difficult to put into words.
Strike that middle line out, it is wrong.
I will edit it from original post.
Your "fixed" post still doesn't make sense. You now say:

The Holy Spirit is a diffrent person to Jesus Christ, but they are both the same God.

What I have said in above posts is that the word of God is the Holy Spirit. Just two diffrent names for the one person.

And the Word of god became Jesus Christ.
You are still starting with them being different people, but then say the Word is the Holy Spirit, and the Word is Jesus. If the Holy Spirit became Jesus, that's still saying they're the same person. It also seems to be a form of the heretical view of modalism.
 
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garry2

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Your "fixed" post still doesn't make sense. You now say:


You are still starting with them being different people, but then say the Word is the Holy Spirit, and the Word is Jesus. If the Holy Spirit became Jesus, that's still saying they're the same person.
It also seems to be a form of the heretical view of modalism
.
Don't know anything about heretical views.
Ok, I had two lines saying the same thing and only deleted one, have you anything to say about the crunch of the matter, Is the Word also the Holy Spirit.
Verses in John and Rev. posted?
 
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HypnoToad

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Don't know anything about heretical views.
Well, perhaps you should look it up and learn what modalism is.

Ok, I had two lines saying the same thing and only deleted one,
Which still leaves us with contradicting statements.

have you anything to say about the crunch of the matter, Is the Word also the Holy Spirit.
Verses in John and Rev. posted?
Alright, let's look at what you posted.

The first bit of your evidence is:
" In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.
According to John 1:1 in the beginning there were only two in the Godhead. God and His Word" (emphasis added)

No, this does NOT say there were only two in the Godhead. It only MENTIONS two. And since John is primarily a Gospel about Jesus, and not a commentary on the nature of the Godhead, there's no problem that John limits this comment to Jesus' part in the Godhead. So, your first evidence is an argument from silence and not valid.

Next you say:
" Gen. 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In Gen 1:2 we see it is the Spirit of God Creating."

First, there's no proof that "Spirit of God" actually refers to the Holy Spirit, as opposed to God in general. Second, even if were the Holy Spirit, it does not specify the Holy Spirit created anything, it says He was there. Third, the actual passages that mention something being created just say "God", not "Spirit of God".

You mention Revelation, but you haven't posted any verses from there.

Do you have any further evidence?
 
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garry2

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Well, perhaps you should look it up and learn what modalism is.
No thanks, dosn't concern me. :)


Which still leaves us with contradicting statements.


Alright, let's look at what you posted.

The first bit of your evidence is:
" In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.
According to John 1:1 in the beginning there were only two in the Godhead. God and His Word" (emphasis added)

No, this does NOT say there were only two in the Godhead. It only MENTIONS two. And since John is primarily a Gospel about Jesus, and not a commentary on the nature of the Godhead, there's no problem that John limits this comment to Jesus' part in the Godhead. So, your first evidence is an argument from silence and not valid.
Well the beginning is the beginning, and John said in the beginning there was The Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, John explained who was in the beginning, I don't know why he would have left out someone as you imply.
Next you say:
" Gen. 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In Gen 1:2 we see it is the Spirit of God Creating."

First, there's no proof that "Spirit of God" actually refers to the Holy Spirit, as opposed to God in general.
Come again.
Spirit of God - Holy Spirit, diffrent person?
Who is God in general?
This is the Spirit of God, Jesus Christ, Creating.
John 1:3 and Gen 1:2.
Second, even if were the Holy Spirit, it does not specify the Holy Spirit created anything, it says He was there. Third, the actual passages that mention something being created just say "God", not "Spirit of God".
I see the Creation is happening and the Holy Spirit is just there, the person of the Godhead Creating is not mentioned.
You mention Revelation, but you haven't posted any verses from there.
^_^ When I said John and Rev, Im sure most would have seen I meant John and Gen. :)
Do you have any further evidence?
Not when you refute the plain and simple Truth I have put forward.
 
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childofGod31

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I don't have conclusions yet, but I have come across some things that should be noted.

God is Spirit, right? And the Word is God right? So doesn't it follow that the Word is the Spirit, then?
(JOH 4:24 God is spirit)
So
1) the Word IS -The Holy Spirit

OR the Word exists in the form of a spirit, just like the Holy Spirit

Just something to think about...

Also, Jesus created the earth AND the Spirit hovered above the waters - doesn't it kind of make you think that Jesus is that Spirit who was hovering above the waters?

One of Jesus' names was "Everlasting Father". This is the verse that kind of makes me see Jesus as being one with God the Father.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit cannot come UNLESS Jesus goes back to the father. Why, I wonder? The possible answer is that Jesus IS the Holy Spirit, and he first has to go back to the Father and take his original spirit form and then he will be able to live in our hearts. Doesn't Paul say that Christ lives in us? And didn't Jesus also said that he will not leave us orphans and that He will come to us?


In his writings, Paul says: “God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (I wonder why he doesn't add and "the Holy Spirit".


I also wonder about this verse in connection with the thoughts above: (I am not sure how to connect them yet.)
MAT 28:19 ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 
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HypnoToad

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No thanks, dosn't concern me.
When you suggest that the Holy Spirit became Jesus, modalism certainly does concern you.

Well the beginning is the beginning, and John said in the beginning there was The Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, John explained who was in the beginning, I don't know why he would have left out someone as you imply.
As already stated, the Gospel is primarily about Jesus, so stating the divinity of Jesus is a pertinent detail, where as the Holy Spirit is not.

Come again.
Spirit of God - Holy Spirit, diffrent person?
Who is God in general?
This is the Spirit of God, Jesus Christ, Creating.
John 1:3 and Gen 1:2.
"God in general" would be the entire Godhead, not a single person of the Godhead. There's nothing in the text stating that "the Spirit of God" in Genesis 1 refers to the third person of the Trinity, as opposed to the entire Godhead.

I see the Creation is happening and the Holy Spirit is just there, the person of the Godhead Creating is not mentioned.
I don't know what you mean by that.

When I said John and Rev, Im sure most would have seen I meant John and Gen.
I have no idea what you "meant". I can only go by what you posted. For all I know, you meant to include something from Revelation, but just forgot to put it in.

Not when you refute the plain and simple Truth I have put forward.
You have yet to support this "truth" with anything substantial.

CoG31 - your post seems dangerously close to modalism, or oneness, theology.
 
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garry2

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I don't have conclusions yet, but I have come across some things that should be noted.



God is Spirit, right? And the Word is God right? So doesn't it follow that the Word is the Spirit, then?
(JOH 4:24 God is spirit)
So
1) the Word IS -The Holy Spirit

OR the Word exists in the form of a spirit, just like the Holy Spirit

Just something to think about...

Also, Jesus created the earth AND the Spirit hovered above the waters - doesn't it kind of make you think that Jesus is that Spirit who was hovering above the waters?
Yes it does to me.
One of Jesus' names was "Everlasting Father". This is the verse that kind of makes me see Jesus as being one with God the Father.
The Word is with God and is God.

Two persons one God, Jesus came later.
You see that, the Word was with God two persons and as Jesus makes up the third person of the Godhead then the word has to be the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit cannot come UNLESS Jesus goes back to the father. Why, I wonder? The possible answer is that Jesus IS the Holy Spirit, and he first has to go back to the Father and take his original spirit form and then he will be able to live in our hearts. Doesn't Paul say that Christ lives in us? And didn't Jesus also said that he will not leave us orphans and that He will come to us?
Yes Christ had to first become spirit again, and Paul does say Christ lives in us, and other verses say the Holy Spirit lives in us, theres much to show that the Word is the Holy spirit.

In his writings, Paul says: “God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (I wonder why he doesn't add and "the Holy Spirit".


I also wonder about this verse in connection with the thoughts above: (I am not sure how to connect them yet.)
MAT 28:19 ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
I think this is where I got muddled earlier.
Remember in the beginning the Word was with God-two persons, the Word-Holy Spirit became Jesus and we have the third person of the Godhead.
I suppose it could have been written baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Word, except it is not the Word we have in us but His Spirit.
The Spirit of God in us.

If I still seems muddled on this last part, just ignore it and go with the other.^_^
 
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garry2

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When you suggest that the Holy Spirit became Jesus, modalism certainly does concern you.


As already stated, the Gospel is primarily about Jesus, so stating the divinity of Jesus is a pertinent detail, where as the Holy Spirit is not.
When John talks about who was in the beginning, you imply he left out the Holy Spirit because his Gospel was about Jesus.
I think that is a strange comment.
"God in general" would be the entire Godhead, not a single person of the Godhead. There's nothing in the text stating that "the Spirit of God" in Genesis 1 refers to the third person of the Trinity, as opposed to the entire Godhead.
How about John 1:3 stating that the third person of the Godhead was the one doing the Creating.
At least you are not still saying the Spirit of God and the Holy spirit may not be the same person.


I don't know what you mean by that.


I have no idea what you "meant". I can only go by what you posted. For all I know, you meant to include something from Revelation, but just forgot to put it in.


You have yet to support this "truth" with anything substantial.
John 1:3 and Gen 1:2 are fairly substantial alone.

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gen. 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

CoG31 - your post seems dangerously close to modalism, or oneness, theology.
^_^ I have said at least twice that God is one God and three persons.
I suppose some, when they have nothing, resort to riduclous claims.
 
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garry2

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Xianjedi said:
Second, even if were the Holy Spirit, it does not specify the Holy Spirit created anything, it says He was there. Third, the actual passages that mention something being created just say "God", not "Spirit of God".
I answered:
I see the Creation is happening and the Holy Spirit is just there, the person of the Godhead Creating is not mentioned.

XianJedi said:
I don't know what you mean by that.
Here I will put in a comma
I see, the Creation is happening and the Holy Spirit is just there, the person of the Godhead Creating is not mentioned.
Do you know what i mean now?

I said:
When I said John and Rev, Im sure most would have seen I meant John and Gen.

XianJedi said:
I have no idea what you "meant". I can only go by what you posted. For all I know, you meant to include something from Revelation, but just forgot to put it in.
Since I was only talking about John and Gen. it was obvious.
 
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