Word of Faith?

[SeekJusticeLoveMercy]

Can someone please give me Scripture for both sides of the Word of Faith argument?

I have heard a lot of pastors lately that have joined the WoF movement. I am new to Christianity but something about WoF doesn't sit right with me. But, I want to know more about both sides though (based on Scripture). I have seen a lot of websites that talk about the WoF movement but don't actually quote Scripture in regards to why they believe that the movement is wrong or right.

Could really use some help here!

 

[sedg]

Can someone please give me Scripture for both sides of the Word of Faith argument?

I have heard a lot of pastors lately that have joined the WoF movement. I am new to Christianity but something about WoF doesn't sit right with me. But, I want to know more about both sides though (based on Scripture). I have seen a lot of websites that talk about the WoF movement but don't actually quote Scripture in regards to why they believe that the movement is wrong or right.

Could really use some help here!

If you do a word search study on the word faith with a bible study software it will bring up most of the verses that have to do with that subject, and then do a study on the subject.

Some TV WoF teachers obviously cross the line and are completely out of balance when it comes to teaching principles of biblical faith.

Faith is very important in Chritianity....

The bible teaches that without faith it is impossible to please God.

I just looked up some verses in regards to faith for healing in another thread and will post a few of them below. (all verses should be read in context)

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Luk 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Mat 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

 

[Intheboat]

It would seem to be about taking things out of context, i.e. picking out solitary verses to build a case for something that the Human nature would naturally like - healing,prosperity etc, whereas we are supposed to read the whole bible in our lifetime and more than once so we would see over time that God can be wrathful AND Gentle there is destruction , and healing, judgement and pardon. If we only focus on His Wrath we would present a whole different picture of his Character. Sometimes the lovely verses have conditions attached to them such as IF you....then I will abundantly bless you, but people present the" I will abundantly" verses and people trust them so follow that without looking into it for themselves and then this would weaken their relationsihip with The Godhead. We should be able to trust those in Leadership but we do have only one high Priest between us and God so should also walk our own walk.

So if we take verses out of context we bring them to God in prayer as seems respectful ,to say " God, you say this in your word and I claim it" but we are being unknowledgable and not looking at the whole. NOT to say God waits until we fully obey every jot and tittle before blessing us - of course he is merciful and loving and sees the heart = worryingly! When I was intersted in the Word of Faith things I couldn't see where I was heading. I thought " there are so many things , situations to be miserable about - what a joy that God has sprinkled the Word with lovely lovely promises and the Devil wants to rob me - so I'm gonna speak them out to claim them. "

Another problem is the intense wealth of the Leaders. They may well perform very good public service in poor regions and reach out to prisoners- but is it the full gospel? Some use full gospel to mean the miracles but here I mean the whole picture. There ARE wonderful promises that are available for us all no matter what our standing in church, but we must be careful to not twist things around.

These Leaders have enormous mansions to live in and private jets - from donations made to further the gospel. A trap anyone of us could fall into if our ministry rocketed and people were begging to hear more and I am so sad to think these men and women often started off humble and seeking. Really hurts.

I am not able to compare Scripture as you are seeking. I found a couple of websites but as I coudn't verify the people behind them I wouldn't feel comfortable passing them on. Apparently Word Of Faith came from the New Thought movement in the 18th Century - also from Christian Science ,and asserts that a higher power pervades all existence, and that individuals can create their own reality via affirmations, meditation and prayer.

 

[josephearl]

I myself do not see believing God to be our healer as anything other then presenting ourselves to Him as one approved by the blood of the Lamb. To do otherwise could never be something he would think well of as it is contrary to the word.

It is indeed wise to read the whole Bible, as an personal aside, Once the Lord told me 'It is good to read the Old Testament to." This was in response to my reading the NT many, many times and spending many joyous hours in researching and studying various NT topics and ideas. I had been aware of Him prompting me to read the OT but the NT was so much fun I was evidently resisting Him more then He thought good for my balanced growth. At hearing the words 'It is good to read the Old Testament to." I had the thought, But why? He quickly answered and said , "It will teach you to fear me."

There is a bit of meat in that for those who want it or need it as I evidently did. It also gave me a fresh perspective on the OT and ultimatly God Himself as I discovered some more of the many facets all of which must be combined in order to have a clearer view of who He is, what He does, why He does it and what our response to it all should be. This may be one of the primary faults of some WOF teachers as they focus on a narow band of legitimate promises and miss seeing the Lord in clarity beyond the One who shall supply all your needs since If you ask it shall be given...somehow I don't think Paul was thinking Mercedes Benz and Rolex when he said "that I might know Him and the power of His resurrection..." but that sadly has become the Gospel to some. Well I guess I did ramble on some.. love ya, JE

 

[Intheboat]

I myself do not see believing God to be our healer as anything other then presenting ourselves to Him as one approved by the blood of the Lamb. To do otherwise could never be something he would think well of as it is contrary to the word.

It is indeed wise to read the whole Bible, as an personal aside, Once the Lord told me 'It is good to read the Old Testament to." This was in response to my reading the NT many, many times and spending many joyous hours in researching and studying various NT topics and ideas. I had been aware of Him prompting me to read the OT but the NT was so much fun I was evidently resisting Him more then He thought good for my balanced growth. At hearing the words 'It is good to read the Old Testament to." I had the thought, But why? He quickly answered and said , "It will teach you to fear me."

There is a bit of meat in that for those who want it or need it as I evidently did. It also gave me a fresh perspective on the OT and ultimatly God Himself as I discovered some more of the many facets all of which must be combined in order to have a clearer view of who He is, what He does, why He does it and what our response to it all should be. This may be one of the primary faults of some WOF teachers as they focus on a narow band of legitimate promises and miss seeing the Lord in clarity beyond the One who shall supply all your needs since If you ask it shall be given...somehow I don't think Paul was thinking Mercedes Benz and Rolex when he said "that I might know Him and the power of His resurrection..." but that sadly has become the Gospel to some. Well I guess I did ramble on some.. love ya, JE

No, you didn't ramble - you shared!

I agree with what you say. MY inclination is to hide a bit in the Old Testament where it is more ancient and I can know some of it doesn't apply to me. I have to be coaxed into the New Testament where it is more about " doing ".
Regards

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Actually whenever you tell somebody that you're SAVED, you're SPEAKING a "Word of Faith" - ASSUMING that you are Born again and walking in the FAITH that He HAS removed your sin, and that you are PERFECT in the Sight of GOd - with the perfection of Jesus that He's clothed you with.

You still have to get up every morning, you still have the normal aches and pains of living, and you still have to earn a living, andprovide for your family, and you WON'T do it perfectly, Yet - you're a Child of God by FAITH.

SO What is Faith - the answer is Heb 11:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

How does FAITH come - ROm 10:
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How does it work - Mark 11:
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Which is basic "Word of Faith" in a nutshell.

The PROBLEM is found in the CONDITIONS listed in Mark 11:23, and 24.

Believing WITHOUT DOUBT (having faith) is impossible - when you HAVE doubt, and IF there's doubt, then you haven't met the conditions, and AREN'T walking in "FAITH" at all - only in "presumption". And presumption isn't going to toss any "mountains into the sea". Only God can cause Doubt to vanish.

There's always a "Revelatory" aspect to FAITH (Hearing the Word at the spiritual level) that only relationship with God through the Blood of Christ can supply. What we have to START with is Mat 6:

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

"Prosperity" teaching, and the so-called "Name it and Claim it" teachings are to be watched out for, since they tend to try to put God under OUR control (IF I do THIS procedure, then HE will do what I desire), instead of the other way around. It's important to keep the "Cart" on the right end of the horse.

In MEDICAL cases - claiming and "Acting out" a "Healing" on "presumption" can be deadly.

HOWEVER - One of the most graphic demonstrations TO ME of "Word of Faith" came from a lady who was in a Bible study I had many years back in '76 or so. She wasn't a "Bible scholar" - a "liberal Christian" in fact - a Member of the United Church of Christ. I was teaching "Bible basics" at the time.

Her son was dying with Bone cancer, and had been sent home to die when all the treatments has failed. HE was in his early 20s, married, and with a new baby. He was white as a sheet, cold to the touch, hair was gone, and he was weak as a kitten.

But His mother had been told by the Holy Spirit in her prayer time, in terms she could understand, that he wasn't going to die, but would be completely healed. And she (and he and his wife) came to the Bible study and gave that testimony. That's to say she SPOKE THE WORD OF FAITH - in the full knowledge that God had TOLD HER that her son would be all right.

SO - we didn't pray for his healing. No need to - it was already a REALITY in FAITH.

And I wouldn't claim for a SECOND that I or anybody else in the study had any faith - I don't know if he did - but his Mother did, and we joined her in THANKING GOD for His provision of healing - even though there wasn't any sign of it. He still looked like death warmed over.

But then over the next few weeks, he began to have some color, and his hair started growing back, and his strength improved. And we continued to thank God for his provision. A Year later he was pronounced "Cancer Free", and the last I heard about 30 years later, he was a Deacon in the Assembly of God Church in St Mary's Ohio - so the healing had "Staying Power".

The mother possessed the SUBSTANCE of what she hoped for, and the EVIDENCE of what none of us could see - yet And She'd had it since the beginning - the REALITY of his healing - in faith, and when the healing began to manifest, the NEED for "Faith" for that situation fell went away in the presence of God's provision.

 

[now faith]

Maybe we should start a word of doubts movement and continue to put conditions on Gods word . The main them for our witness is to be just as sick just as poor and just as miserable as any sinner. As far as wealth has any one looked up what any one who is in control of a large corporation makes? So a workman is not worth his hire when it comes to preaching Gods word? Who determined what we can and cannot receive from God? Let's throw out some Scripture like Philippians 4 verse 13 . Not going to quote as some need to see for themselves. Before making judgments talk to a WOF teacher or several.

 

[now faith]

I myself do not see believing God to be our healer as anything other then presenting ourselves to Him as one approved by the blood of the Lamb. To do otherwise could never be something he would think well of as it is contrary to the word.



It is indeed wise to read the whole Bible, as an personal aside, Once the Lord told me 'It is good to read the Old Testament to." This was in response to my reading the NT many, many times and spending many joyous hours in researching and studying various NT topics and ideas. I had been aware of Him prompting me to read the OT but the NT was so much fun I was evidently resisting Him more then He thought good for my balanced growth. At hearing the words 'It is good to read the Old Testament to." I had the thought, But why? He quickly answered and said , "It will teach you to fear me."

There is a bit of meat in that for those who want it or need it as I evidently did. It also gave me a fresh perspective on the OT and ultimatly God Himself as I discovered some more of the many facets all of which must be combined in order to have a clearer view of who He is, what He does, why He does it and what our response to it all should be. This may be one of the primary faults of some WOF teachers as they focus on a narow band of legitimate promises and miss seeing the Lord in clarity beyond the One who shall supply all your needs since If you ask it shall be given...somehow I don't think Paul was thinking Mercedes Benz and Rolex when he said "that I might know Him and the power of His resurrection..." but that sadly has become the Gospel to some. Well I guess I did ramble on some.. love ya, JE

So Paul was talking about 73 ford pintos and Timex watches instead in such could become a source of idolatry to someone who does not have them as well. Who puts values on things? We do ourselves and in that God judges our hearts.

 

[now faith]

I do not consider Ephesians chapter 3 a narrow band or for that matter why would we say legitimate and not acknowledge the word. The old testament is simply put all about Christ it is a foreshadowing of him and the cross. John 1. As far as teaching fear instead of teaching what's right 2nd Timothy 3 verses 16 - 17 .

 

[now faith]

A few bad apples can spoil the barrel. WOF is about belief in the bible and faith if God said it they be live it . Its not about name it and claim it as a some religion of greed. A man that is spirit filled would not ask for something out side of Gods will because he is lead by the holy spirit whom is God. I understand having doubts when you see a focus on wealth in every sermon that does not make them WOF they could be any denomation that you happened to hear.