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Word of faith teachers and other issues

Discussion in 'Word of Faith' started by Jesus Freak Central, May 27, 2001.

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  1. zamar

    zamar Guest

    +0
    Louis ,
    I go home and check out what my Pastor teaches on a regular basis. You don't need to be concerned about me Bro. I'm just fine.

    Z
     
  2. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Well to be honest I was a little when you started talking about copeland..I have personally heard a few of his sermons on TV and found a few things in them that aren't right...that's all Z :) that Jesus was sin also kinda scared me a little.
     
  3. zamar

    zamar Guest

    +0
    Well you are entitled to your interpretations Louis.

    What scares me is Hank H. calls everyone a heretic (now included on his list is Dr.D. James Kennedy). Seems he finds problems with everyone. And that is a problem.

    Z
     
  4. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    If they are teaching stuff that is wrong then he does a GREAT job of documenting it. Most if not all of his stuff is dead on. Just because they teach one or two wrong things, like I said before ;) , doesn't make everything wrong. Ten of 12 sentences out of copelands mouth are probably what I would also think it biblical truth..its that 11 and 12 that are what we need to watch out for ;) Hank just points them out for us so we know. I didn't say he was right all the time..but he is a good "watchdog" for lack of a better term.
     
  5. zamar

    zamar Guest

    +0
    So what you just said is that it is ok for the CRI to be wrong once and a while yet anyone else (If they are wrong on any point), is guilty of preaching heresy.

    There is no consistency in your argument Louis. This entire thread has been a debate of opinions. I am of one opinion, you are of another. I believe that we need to leave it there.

    Z
     
  6. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    :lol: umm...Z..I said Hank can be wrong..he is not CRI. The CRI does LOTS of research before saying anything..the research usually speaks for itself.

    "I believe that we need to leave it there."

    Z its not what we believe..because if I say what they teach I know you don't agree with it...or at least I think you don't..its the teachers we dont' agree on. I say they are teaching bad mixed with good and you are saying they teach only good. I have shown you where they taught bad and you said that's not what they ment..I have warned you..just doing my job as a watchguard christian like I should be :) I'll drop it if I am irritating you..I appoligize if I am..just trying to keep a Christian brother from falling into bad teachings.
     
  7. zamar

    zamar Guest

    +0
    Louie,
    Please understand that I am not offended by you or your posts. You are a precious Brother and I appreciate you alot.
    I also want you to understand that The teachers in question are not the leaders of a denomination. We do not answer to them. I am in submission to the Pastor and leadership of my local church. We do not have any WOF doctrine or whatever that we teach out of. Those things do not exist.

    Again, I'm not running after some "name it claim it" doctrine. I am doing what I can to learn and follow the word of God. Both for myself and my family. I really appreciate your concern. You do not have to worry that I will run off and do something stupid. God gave me a brain and people on forums like this one, and I make use of them.

    Thank you Brother. You are a blessing!!

    Z
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Z. I just like accountablity and wanna keep Christians accountable just as I should be. I know ya have a brain ;) :lol: but the best of us can be decieved..that's what christian brothers are for :) if nothing else I learned how to talk about it :lol: Hey..did you ever get that e-mail on the taste death thing?
     
  9. zamar

    zamar Guest

    +0
    Yes Louis, I did receive it.
    Thank you

    Z
     
  10. victoryword1

    victoryword1 Guest

    +0
    I happen to run accross this dicussion while doing some web surfing. If anyone is interested, I have an excellent site that gives you some better understanding concerning the Word-of-Faith issue and it's critics.

    www.victoryword.100megspop2.com

    Please check it out when you get a chance. I'll be back when I have more time if anyone is still interested in discussing this issue.

    Troy
     
  11. jesusfreak2

    jesusfreak2 Guest

    +0
    about VictoryWord's website. It's incredibly awesome.

    Jesusfreak Control, I absolutely did not steal your name. I've had this username on 4 different sites.

    You, being a jesusfreak, oughta know that CONFESSION is good for the soul; JUST BETWEEN YOU AND ME. (get it?)

    Hey ya'll, for real; check out VW's site. I would in particular recommend reading "7 tactics of the heresy hunters".

    Ya'll go ahead and go there first before anymore comments, o.k.?

    jf2
     
  12. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    hmm..checked out some of it but that site seems to affirm some "teachers" I know to have said some very not biblical things.
     
  13. victoryword1

    victoryword1 Guest

    +0
    Hi Louis

    What teachers did I affirm that said some unbiblical things? What did they say that were unbiblical? Most of all, has anything on my site that you have been able to read been unbiblical?

    Iron sharpens iron. Talk to me brother.

    JF2, what's up girlfriend!!!
     
  14. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    I would personally disagree with the whole does sickness glorify God article. Job clearly shows that God allows sickness and uses it for his glory..The whole feel I get from that site is that sickness is of the devil and anyone that is sick is not faithful enough....That is NOT biblical.
     
  15. victoryword1

    victoryword1 Guest

    +0
    I'm afraid that your premise for disagreeing with my article has no proof in the Scriptures themselves. There is not one place where the Scriptures teach that God gives sickness for His glory and I believe that I have thoroughly proven that. A careful reading of Job will prove that a.)God di not inflict Job with sickness and b.) that it was then END of Job that glorified God and not his sickness. Job 2:7 shows us the author of Job's sickness:

    So we can see that Satn smote Job and not God. It's a shame that ANYONE thinks that Satan has God's glory in mind here. Rather than bringing God glory Job's sickness caused his three friends to bring false accusations against Job and caused his wife to tell Job to CURSE GOD and die. Does not sound as if God received any glory here. However, God does receive glory when HE acts in Job's situation:

    Notice that Job was in CAPTIVITY. When you look this word up in the Hebrew it is talking about having been taken prisoner by an enemy. God did not receive glory from Job's sickness. He received glory when He Himself overruled Job's sickness, healed him, and restored to him twice as much as he had before.
    James tells us that the Lord's mercy and pity is shown at the END of Job:

    So the reason to endure any trial is so that we can see the end that the Lord has for us, that His true attributes will be shown and He will be glorified. Job is not a good example to use in any attempt to prove that God is glorified through sickness and disease.
     
  16. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I didn't say to worship sickiness, but God does allow christians to get sick even when we pray against that.

    "It's a shame that ANYONE thinks that Satan has God's glory in mind here. "

    I agree, but why did God allow it? TO USE IT FOR HIS GLORY.

    "God did not receive glory from Job's sickness. "

    Wrong..he did for Job still praised him even when people said to turn away.

    "Job is not a good example to use in any attempt to prove that God is glorified through sickness and disease. "

    So are you saying that God is NOT glorifed through it..then you're wrong..everything in a Christian's life should be TO THE GLORY OF GOD. Being Sick is not caused by or due to your sin or lack of faith.
     
  17. Yahweh Elohim

    Yahweh Elohim New Member

    9
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    This is from the offical site of Kenyon:please check all things out on both sides before posting negative remarks, whether you like or dislike Hagin or even anyone.

    PLAGIARISM OF E. W. KENYON BY KENNETH E. HAGIN?

    In his book A Different Gospel, author D.R. McConnell goes to some length to show that Kenneth Hagin plagiarized the writings of E. W. Kenyon. Some have contacted the office of Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society quite irritated about this situation. So what is our response?
    First of all, it must be noted that Kenneth Hagin, to the best of my knowledge does not actually write his books. What I mean by this is that his books are for the most part transcriptions of his speaking ministry. Someone transcribes the taped messages and then they are edited and put into book form. Those who are preachers understand that it is impossible to stop and credit everyone who influenced your message while you are preaching. As someone who has been preaching and teaching for around 20 years, I shudder to think what would happen if I were called upon to remember each author or speaker who had influenced any given message I teach.
    Anyone listening to me preach who was familiar with E.W. Kenyon would recognize many of his ideas in my preaching. The thoughtful listener would also recognize many other influences in my speaking ministry. This would be confirmed by my personal library of books and tapes.
    One respected Charismatic leader, who has since gone on to be with the Lord, said of E.W. Kenyon that he was often quoted, yet seldom footnoted. Many people have absorbed his phrases and echoed his ideas. I have heard Kenneth Hagin personally testify to the fact that many of the phrases he has used and ideas he has taught, he heard from some other preachers before he ever heard of E.W. Kenyon. It is quite possible that they were quoting Kenyon and using his material and Kenneth Hagin didn’t know the original source. Liking the sound of the phrases, Hagin added them to his preaching vocabulary.
    Hagin has noted that he has an almost photographic memory. Reading or hearing something once was all that was necessary for him to recall it verbatim. Every preacher wishes he had this ability! Most of us remember what we can but seldom remember where we heard it. But most preachers have no need to become paranoid about someone chastising us for quoting another author or preacher in our messages and being accused of plagiarism either! Brother Hagin has not been so fortunate.
    A second thought that bears on this subject: All of those ministers who worked with Kenyon used his terminology and catchy phrases. It’s would be hard to imagine him being offended by this. People enjoy Kenyon’s writings because he had a unique way of stating things that grabs our attention. People seldom imitate boring speakers! Kenyon would probably be delighted to find that so many are using his phraseology today. In his day he sent forth many ministers that he trained in his churches and Bible schools who preached essentially his message. A father in the faith is blessed when his children imitate him, not angered.
    A third point: Kenneth Hagin published a book titled The Name of Jesus. The book was taken from tapes of a seminar where he taught through Kenyon’s book The Wonderful Name of Jesus. He credits Kenyon both on the tapes and in the introduction to the book. He worked, through his editor, with Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society and had the complete approval of Ruth Kenyon Housworth (Kenyon’s late daughter) for the book when it went to print. Hagin’s ministry has always maintained a good relationship with Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society. One of Kenyon’s books is used in the curriculum at Hagin’s Rhema Bible Training Center.
    We consider Kenneth E. Hagin to be a great man of God. If E.W. Kenyon were here today, he and Hagin would probably be good friends. And from his vantage point in heaven, Kenyon is probably delighted that Kenneth E. Hagin has been so successful in getting the message of faith, so dear to Kenyon’s heart, out to so many in the world in this generation.
    If Kenyon himself wouldn’t be bothered about it all, why should anyone else?
     
  18. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

    +1,252
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    Don't
    You are being fed a bunch of lies.
     
  19. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Louis, Louis,

    There you go again. Why dont you take the plank out of your own eye first bro?

    It was not too long ago that you were preaching here that Jesus fell sick and had pimples just like everyone else, and that Jesus did not shed his blood for all. That was some really weird stuff I heard.

    :)
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Lets see...when a person gets sick, like cancer...

    1. His cells are being destroyed/killed
    2. His organs are being destroyed
    3. His health is stolen from him
    4. He loses his life
    5. His wife loses him

    Can this be God's doing and will? Can this be abundant life? Let's see...

    Joh 10:10
    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
     
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