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SpiritPsalmist

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look said:
Quaffer, I go to Calvary Christian Center, it's in Ormond. Their home page is at http://calvarychristiancenter.com/

You are part of the H.I.S. Church network? Cool! They just moved in that building, it used to be a Methodist church!

My pastor was invited to preach at a "empowerment" conference at Bethune Cookman College! We have a mixed congregation and I wouldn't have it any other way!!! After all, I daresay that most of the saints in Heaven, after the rapture, will be Chinese! In China, there are tens of thousands of Chinese getting born-again, daily!!! So if the Lord should tarry... :)

You're familiar with them? That was my first time in that building, they have it fixed up pretty nice.

Regarding Peter Gammons. . .what do you think about him? One of the things the site said was that he holds healing services here in Orlando. . .I don't recall ever hearing of him but then again, I don't watch too much Christain TV
 
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usadingo

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Quaffer said:
I believe Jesus died to heal the whole man. . .not just the partial. It was all done at the cross. He did not do a partial job, He did a whole job. It was finished. Those were His words.
I believe this too. Again though, I believe that while we are on this earth, physical healing is not guarenteed. Spiritually though, we all have been healed. We just have to accept that gift of God.

I cannot answer for what other people choose to do. I personally have never heard Hinn, or Hagen tell someone to stop taking their medicine. I have heard them to go to their doctor and get proof of healing.
And they do say to go to doctors. I don't deny this. Although, for a lot of teachers, it's after being confronted about saying they shouldn't see doctors.
But anyway, this is what I call the great contridiction of Faith healing. If we are to have faith that we will be healed, and then go to a doctor when we receive our healing to make sure, did we really have faith to begin with? By going to a doctor, we are admitting that there might not be a chance that we were healed.
When we take medicine, we are not putting our whole faith in God. We are relying on the medicine.
While these teachers may say to go to a doctor, just to be sure, the rest of their message contridicts this action. Basic common sense is telling these teacher's followers that avoiding doctors and medicine is the best way to show true faith.

Do you think God had no other way of getting your friend to Him? He had to kill his mom? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. Your friend became desperate enough to see he needed Jesus. But I don't believe that she was made sick for the sole purpose of someone coming to Christ.
Just to make sure we're on the same level here, let me explain who my "friend" is.
Sonny, is Sonny Sandoval of the band P.O.D. (Payable on Death)
Their last album, "Satellite" has gone on to sell over four million copies (multi-platinum.) Their songs "Southtown" "Outkast" "Boom" "Rock the Party" "Satellite" "Youth of the Nation" "Alive" and "Ghetto" are all in heavy rotation on the radio, and most have videos that have reached the tops of MTV's countdowns. Their song "School of Hardknocks" is featured on the "Little Nicky" soundtrack. Recently, they recorded the song "Sleeping Awake" as a title track for "The Matrix: Reloaded."
With that said, I'm sure God could have reached Sonny in another way. However, when you consider that many of P.O.D.'s songs were a direct result of the death of Sonny's mother, one often wonders if they would have been so successful without those songs, or reached as many people as they have.
I do know, through speaking with Sonny myself, his Mother would probably be ok with knowing that through her death, not only has her son come to Christ, but thousands upon thousands have been reached for Christ as well.

I'm not perfect enough for my sufferings to bring anybody to salvation. . .but Jesus was. . .and did. It was finished. No-one else needs to nor can they do anything to add to it.
And I say that, who are we to even claim we have a better plan than God?

Yes, going to heaven is a positive thing. . .but what would be the point of this sort of test if God already knows their heart?
Romans 5:3- "Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope."

Also, please show me the scripture where it says we are to "expose" false teachers. It tells us to be aware of them, but where is the exposing part?
Good discernment and moral accountability should be practiced among believers. The Old Testament establishes this pattern. Instructions concerning false prophets in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 assume the prophet arises from the congregation of Israel. People are admonished to banish idolatry from their families: "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend..." (v. 6). Deuteronomy 13 instructs the Israelites how to practice good discernment within their communities: "You must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly." If the community is idolatrous, it must be dealt with publicly (v. 14). Psalm 50:18 states that one who sees a crime and doesn't report it has moral culpability.
The New Testament continues the theme of good discernment within the believing community, most notably when the Bereans test Paul's teachings (Acts 17:11) and the Thessalonians are commanded to test all things (1 Thess. 5:21-22). Judgment is not excluded, but unrighteous judgment is. Jesus declared: "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment" (John 7:24).
Jesus expelled the money changers from the temple, denounced the Pharisees and scribes, and rebuked the teachers of the Law. He reprimanded Peter in front of the other disciples (Matt. 16:22-23). Paul followed Jesus' example, naming false teachers in the church (2 Tim. 2:14-19) and openly criticizing Peter (Gal. 2:11, 14).
When immorality occurs in the church (Titus 1:15-16), the Bible says to deal with it truthfully and constructively. The procedure for public leaders caught in false teaching or immorality is for them to be rebuked publicly "so that the others may take warning" (1 Tim. 5:20). A congregation member who sins privately against another Christian is not to be exposed publicly unless he (or she) persists in sin, in which case he is to be rebuked before the church and we are to "treat him as you would a pagan or tax collector" (Matt. 18:15-17). Paul followed this procedure concerning the Christian who persisted in sexual immorality (1 Cor. 5:3-12), and affirmed that judgment belongs to the church.

If I could see proof that Hinn was really doing that, then I would caution people to pray and hear from God. . .they are supposed to be doing that anyway.
Just watch him on TV. Typically, if he's not pushing people over and actually teaching, it only takes a few moments before he says something that's not right.

Well. . .HH. . .he was the one I was referring to in my one post. . .I did not twist anything. I had the books side by side. . .I looked up each ref he gave. . .my friend, whose church I went to, who I knew did not teach the things HH was accusing him of, was very much misquoted.
I never said you twisted his words. I was saying that those web-sites offered as "proofs" only made attempts to disprove Hank's book by twisting his words.
 
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look

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Quaffer said:
You're familiar with them? That was my first time in that building, they have it fixed up pretty nice.

Regarding Peter Gammons. . .what do you think about him? One of the things the site said was that he holds healing services here in Orlando. . .I don't recall ever hearing of him but then again, I don't watch too much Christain TV

Yeah, I've visited them once, when I was looking for a home church. They were still in their old building then.

About Peter Gammons, I heard of him on Sid Roth's tv show, "It's Supernatural". They flashed his web address on the screen and The interview was impressive, so I went to the web site. I was surprised to find that his ministery was in Orlando, so I've wanted to visit, just to check it out.

That's funny, because I don't even watch tv anymore, I just watch and listen to BVOV radio and live believer's conventions. I've pretty much screened out the junk I take in through my eyes. These days, you have to keep that filter on so you can guard your heart...

Shalom, nothing missing and nothing broken... :)
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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usadingo said:
I believe this too. Again though, I believe that while we are on this earth, physical healing is not guarenteed. Spiritually though, we all have been healed. We just have to accept that gift of God.

I don't consider sickness a gift from God. Satan is called the thief, robber, and lier. God does not evil as part of His nature and He says that if we, as earthly parents know how to give good gifts, then He does even better (Mt 7:11, Luke 11:13).

I guess we won't agree on this. . . you think dad kills off some of His kids so He can get another kid's attention. :(

usadingo said:
And they do say to go to doctors. I don't deny this. Although, for a lot of teachers, it's after being confronted about saying they shouldn't see doctors.
But anyway, this is what I call the great contridiction of Faith healing. If we are to have faith that we will be healed, and then go to a doctor when we receive our healing to make sure, did we really have faith to begin with? By going to a doctor, we are admitting that there might not be a chance that we were healed.
When we take medicine, we are not putting our whole faith in God. We are relying on the medicine.
While these teachers may say to go to a doctor, just to be sure, the rest of their message contridicts this action. Basic common sense is telling these teacher's followers that avoiding doctors and medicine is the best way to show true faith.
I'm sorry dingo but you are contradicting your own argument. We don't tell people to go to a dr so the doctor can let them know for sure they are healed. We tell them to go to a doctor so we can supply physical proof to sceptics like you who don't believe it unless you see proof.

usadingo said:
Just to make sure we're on the same level here, let me explain who my "friend" is.
Sonny, is Sonny Sandoval of the band P.O.D. (Payable on Death)
Their last album, "Satellite" has gone on to sell over four million copies (multi-platinum.) Their songs "Southtown" "Outkast" "Boom" "Rock the Party" "Satellite" "Youth of the Nation" "Alive" and "Ghetto" are all in heavy rotation on the radio, and most have videos that have reached the tops of MTV's countdowns. Their song "School of Hardknocks" is featured on the "Little Nicky" soundtrack. Recently, they recorded the song "Sleeping Awake" as a title track for "The Matrix: Reloaded."
With that said, I'm sure God could have reached Sonny in another way. However, when you consider that many of P.O.D.'s songs were a direct result of the death of Sonny's mother, one often wonders if they would have been so successful without those songs, or reached as many people as they have.
I do know, through speaking with Sonny myself, his Mother would probably be ok with knowing that through her death, not only has her son come to Christ, but thousands upon thousands have been reached for Christ as well.
God is not a respector of persons. . . whoever gives Him their heart will be successful.

usadingo said:
And I say that, who are we to even claim we have a better plan than God?
You're right. . .God's plan is every child of His is healed. Accepting sickness as part of that plan is, as far as I'm concerned, a lie of the devil and he's convinced a lot of people that it's God. :(

usadingo said:
Romans 5:3- "Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope."
This is referrencing persecutions and suffering for the Gospel. . .not sickness put on us by the enemy.

usadingo said:
Good discernment and moral accountability should be practiced among believers. The Old Testament establishes this pattern. Instructions concerning false prophets in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 assume the prophet arises from the congregation of Israel. People are admonished to banish idolatry from their families: "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend..." (v. 6). Deuteronomy 13 instructs the Israelites how to practice good discernment within their communities: "You must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly." If the community is idolatrous, it must be dealt with publicly (v. 14). Psalm 50:18 states that one who sees a crime and doesn't report it has moral culpability.
The New Testament continues the theme of good discernment within the believing community, most notably when the Bereans test Paul's teachings (Acts 17:11) and the Thessalonians are commanded to test all things (1 Thess. 5:21-22). Judgment is not excluded, but unrighteous judgment is. Jesus declared: "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment" (John 7:24).
Jesus expelled the money changers from the temple, denounced the Pharisees and scribes, and rebuked the teachers of the Law. He reprimanded Peter in front of the other disciples (Matt. 16:22-23). Paul followed Jesus' example, naming false teachers in the church (2 Tim. 2:14-19) and openly criticizing Peter (Gal. 2:11, 14).
When immorality occurs in the church (Titus 1:15-16), the Bible says to deal with it truthfully and constructively. The procedure for public leaders caught in false teaching or immorality is for them to be rebuked publicly "so that the others may take warning" (1 Tim. 5:20). A congregation member who sins privately against another Christian is not to be exposed publicly unless he (or she) persists in sin, in which case he is to be rebuked before the church and we are to "treat him as you would a pagan or tax collector" (Matt. 18:15-17). Paul followed this procedure concerning the Christian who persisted in sexual immorality (1 Cor. 5:3-12), and affirmed that judgment belongs to the church.

Whatever dingo. . .what are you gonna do if when you get to heaven you find out these guys are your neighbors? You have not yet proven that they are guilty of said accusations. . .that would make their accusers participants with the accuser of the Saints.

usadingo said:
Just watch him on TV. Typically, if he's not pushing people over and actually teaching, it only takes a few moments before he says something that's not right.

LOL, he does not push people down. I honestly don't listen to Benny very much. But what he teaches has nothing to do with what I personally believe. . . and it's my beliefs I'm bringing forth not his.

usadingo said:
I never said you twisted his words. I was saying that those web-sites offered as "proofs" only made attempts to disprove Hank's book by twisting his words.
Forget about the web-sites. With little effort on my own, I proved HH's statements to be wrong. . .so in my opinion. . .the web-sites merely put on paper what I'd already discoverd anyway.

We might as well just stop dingo, we're getting nowhere. I understand your concern. I believe that God has called you to speak forth His word in Spirit and in Truth.

I also believe though, that you have not searched out the scriptures along with the direction and leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe you are standing on a pedestal that others have given you . You may listen to these men but you are listening with a critical ear and not hearing at all with your spirit. But that's just my opinion.

Bye for now dingo,

Barbara
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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look said:
Yeah, I've visited them once, when I was looking for a home church. They were still in their old building then.

About Peter Gammons, I heard of him on Sid Roth's tv show, "It's Supernatural". They flashed his web address on the screen and The interview was impressive, so I went to the web site. I was surprised to find that his ministery was in Orlando, so I've wanted to visit, just to check it out.

That's funny, because I don't even watch tv anymore, I just watch and listen to BVOV radio and live believer's conventions. I've pretty much screened out the junk I take in through my eyes. These days, you have to keep that filter on so you can guard your heart...

Shalom, nothing missing and nothing broken... :)

Ain't that the truth. I do watch some TV but not too much. I watch the Christian sometimes. . it depend who's on. Unfortionately, I do understand a lot of the complaints people have with Christian TV. It can be pretty embarrassing sometimes. . .but then again, would we have hobnobbed with any of the OT preachers and prophets. . .I'm not sure I would have. :D

If you ever get over here to visit that ministry, let me know and perhaps we could meet there.

Anyway, thanks for the info,

Quaffer
 
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usadingo

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Quaffer said:
I don't consider sickness a gift from God. Satan is called the thief, robber, and lier. God does not evil as part of His nature and He says that if we, as earthly parents know how to give good gifts, then He does even better (Mt 7:11, Luke 11:13).
All I'm simply saying is, God can use sickness, and if we as Christians should be willing to lay down our lives for someone, we should be willing to be sick, if necessary, for someone.
I also find it funny that of all the titles given to Satan, sickness is never mentioned along side him.

I guess we won't agree on this. . . you think dad kills off some of His kids so He can get another kid's attention. :(
The Bible clearly states that we all have a time to live and a time to die. When we die is unknown, and we are called to be ready. If we die, we go to be with the Lord. Death is not a negative thing as you assume.

I'm sorry dingo but you are contradicting your own argument. We don't tell people to go to a dr so the doctor can let them know for sure they are healed. We tell them to go to a doctor so we can supply physical proof to sceptics like you who don't believe it unless you see proof.
Well I don't know about you, but I'm still waiting to see proof of someone with a missing leg get healed rather than someone with the sniffles or a bad headache.

God is not a respector of persons. . . whoever gives Him their heart will be successful.
Successful? No. Provided for, yes. Again, simply look at the example of the early church. Let's make sure to ask them how successful they were as they were slaughtered for their beliefs.

This is referrencing persecutions and suffering for the Gospel. . .not sickness put on us by the enemy.
What about if someone is sick, and they're told they're not getting healed because they lack faith, or have a hidden sin they're not repenting of?

[/QUOTE]Whatever dingo. . .what are you gonna do if when you get to heaven you find out these guys are your neighbors?[/QUOTE]
Universal arguement! I can just flip it around and say "what are you going to do when you get to heaven and find out these guys are not there?"

You have not yet proven that they are guilty of said accusations. . .that would make their accusers participants with the accuser of the Saints.
You simply asked for proof in the Bible where it says we should speak out against false teachers. I did. Don't ask one thing and then accuse me of not proving something unrelated.

LOL, he does not push people down. I honestly don't listen to Benny very much. But what he teaches has nothing to do with what I personally believe. . . and it's my beliefs I'm bringing forth not his.
Yeah yeah, he "slays people in the spirit." Just another thing that has more in common with occult practices, and nothing to do with Biblical practice.

Forget about the web-sites. With little effort on my own, I proved HH's statements to be wrong. . .so in my opinion. . .the web-sites merely put on paper what I'd already discoverd anyway.
That's right...You did prove him wrong...It was back in post #...#...Hmmm.....
If your discoveries are the same as this sites, than I can only expect they're just as twisted.

I also believe though, that you have not searched out the scriptures along with the direction and leading of the Holy Spirit.
And the same goes for you. If you read scripture, you'd realize this "prosperity" message is far from it. You'd also see how people suffered, were sick, but ultimately rejocied in the joy of Christ. You'd also see how in their times of suffering, they were never once told to "claim their healing," or anything modern faith teachers teach.

I believe you are standing on a pedestal that others have given you .
Well than it's a self-made one. I simply work for a cell phone company and study in my free time.

You may listen to these men but you are listening with a critical ear and not hearing at all with your spirit. But that's just my opinion.
I suppose I prefer examining teachings according to what scripture says instead of praying over things for truth. While I do pray for revelation and knowledge, those "revelations" will never be superior to scripture. Why? Our own personal revelations can be faulty.
It's odd...I seem to remember some other group that stresses listening to the Spirit for truth rather than Biblical scripture...Who was that now...Oh yeah, the Mormons.
 
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usadingo said:
If your discoveries are the same as this sites, than I can only expect they're just as twisted.
It's odd...I seem to remember some other group that stresses listening to the Spirit for truth rather than Biblical scripture...Who was that now...Oh yeah, the Mormons.

Mellow out dude... Quaffie is just sharing what she believes. It is not like she is robbing a bank or littering. No need for the derogatory stuff! :cry: Peace!!! :hug:

Didy
 
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look

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Quaffer said:
Ain't that the truth. I do watch some TV but not too much. I watch the Christian sometimes. . it depend who's on. Unfortionately, I do understand a lot of the complaints people have with Christian TV. It can be pretty embarrassing sometimes. . .but then again, would we have hobnobbed with any of the OT preachers and prophets. . .I'm not sure I would have. :D

If you ever get over here to visit that ministry, let me know and perhaps we could meet there.

Anyway, thanks for the info,

Quaffer

OK, but I'll pm you then, but it might be a while, God is taking me somewhere but I don't know where yet...right now, I'm under intensive Holy Ghost schooling at home! Praise God!!! Let me know if you want my e-mail addy...

Jesus, the hope of Glory... :)
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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usadingo said:
I suppose I prefer examining teachings according to what scripture says instead of praying over things for truth. While I do pray for revelation and knowledge, those "revelations" will never be superior to scripture. Why? Our own personal revelations can be faulty.
I believe that I've stressed knowledge of the Word and nothing being superior to it this whole time. . but obviously you read my post with a critical eye as well as ear. You only seemed to see what you already belived about me from the start. Even though you said you were not referring to me, you really were.
usadingo said:
It's not derogatory. It's true.
Besides, there's a difference from stating what one believes, and stating what another person believes for them.

It certaintly feels derogatory.

And No dingo. . it is'nt true.
sad210.gif
 
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usadingo

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Quaffer said:
I believe that I've stressed knowledge of the Word and nothing being superior to it this whole time.
And Charles Manson believes he's done nothing wrong. I'm not comparing you to Manson, just stating the point that beliefs are not always facts.

...you read my post...
You only seemed to see what you already belived about me...
...you said you were not referring...
...you really were
So...shall we talk about someone being critical of another? Hmm...

It certaintly feels derogatory.
Welcome to my world.

And No dingo. . it is'nt true.
So then you don't pray for revelation of the truth about someone like the Mormons do? Or as they call it, "listening for confermation from the Spirit."
I'm confused...
Quaffer said:
You may listen to these men but you are listening with a critical ear and not hearing at all with your spirit.
 
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usadingo

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LeeS said:
usadinno,

I think you adequately demonstrated for us why the word of faith camps tends to not defend itself. . .your side get's mean when they try.
What can I say? I get mad when lives are on the line. I suppose it's better than resorting to accusations.
But I prefer to think that the Word of Faith camps don't defend themselves is because very few things they say is backed up by scripture without taking it out of context and claiming that it's "just their interpretation" despite what historical, textual, and grammatical evidence says.
 
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usadingo said:
What can I say? I get mad when lives are on the line. I suppose it's better than resorting to accusations.
But I prefer to think that the Word of Faith camps don't defend themselves is because very few things they say is backed up by scripture without taking it out of context and claiming that it's "just their interpretation" despite what historical, textual, and grammatical evidence says.

Better? :( You prefer to think? :(

It looked to me like you made quite a few accusations. :(

Sorry, but that's no excuse to treat a fellow believer like dirt and compare them to the founder of Mormonism and Hitler and Manson. I know you said you were not comparing but if you were not you would not have said it.

Good explanations were givin but you kept referring back to previous comments that had been clarified. Does clarification mean nothing to you?

Word of Faith people pray the same way you do, only they pray the Word. They don't just say say, "God take care of me today". They say, "God, I thank You that Your Word says that I am covered and protected by You. I find refuge in You and I can trust You. Your Truth and Your Faithfullness around me". You can find that in Ps 91:4.

As far as knowing whether someone is of God or not; yes, discernment is needed. But discernment is not based on our opinions of their usage of scripture. Nor should it be based on how well someone does or does not write or speak the english language with all it's rules and breaking of those rules.

It really did not appear that you were listening at all. You had your opinion set in stone and you were not budging. No matter how much your accusations were denied.

Lee
 
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Dear usadingo, the Lord would remind you of two scripture references pertaining to you and where you are now in your walk with Jesus.
  • 1..Phil 2:12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
    14. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
    :)
  • 2..Romans 14:1. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    2. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

I have delivered the Word of God to you, you would do well to take heed to His Word...
 
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usadingo

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LeeS said:
Better? :( You prefer to think? :(

It looked to me like you made quite a few accusations. :(
"I like Snickers better than Butterfinger."
"I prefer to think dry socks are better than wet."
There's a difference between accusing and stating opinion.

Sorry, but that's no excuse to treat a fellow believer like dirt and compare them to the founder of Mormonism and Hitler and Manson. I know you said you were not comparing but if you were not you would not have said it.
If two people do the same thing, there's a chance they'll get compared. How about you move past your finger pointing and get to the topics at hand.

Good explanations were givin but you kept referring back to previous comments that had been clarified.
The best explination I got was basically, "That's my interpretation of the verse. You might see it differently."

Word of Faith people pray the same way you do, only they pray the Word. They don't just say say, "God take care of me today". They say, "God, I thank You that Your Word says that I am covered and protected by You. I find refuge in You and I can trust You. Your Truth and Your Faithfullness around me". You can find that in Ps 91:4.
And I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with someone telling people that if they follow God, He'll make them rich and they'll never be sick.

As far as knowing whether someone is of God or not; yes, discernment is needed. But discernment is not based on our opinions of their usage of scripture. Nor should it be based on how well someone does or does not write or speak the english language with all it's rules and breaking of those rules.
I believe in absolute truth. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. If someone is wrong based on those absolutes, I'm going to call them on it.

It really did not appear that you were listening at all. You had your opinion set in stone and you were not budging. No matter how much your accusations were denied.
And based on how many times I've had to re-explain what I originally said, it appears you're not listening either.
 
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usadingo

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look said:
Dear usadingo, the Lord would remind you of two scripture references pertaining to you and where you are now in your walk with Jesus.
  • 1..Phil 2:12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
    14. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
    :)
  • 2..Romans 14:1. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    2. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

I have delivered the Word of God to you, you would do well to take heed to His Word...

That's the funny thing about telling someone they're judging. You have to resort to judging to say so.
Fact is, if someone is spreading lies and false prophecy in the church, the Bible tells us we are to examine all things according to scripture, test the spirits, speak out against the false teachings, etc.
I direct you to John 7:24- "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment."
 
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SavedByGrace3

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usadingo said:
That's the funny thing about telling someone they're judging....
But brother... you have a habit off considering everything that someone says as "judging". Much of what is said here is simple obvious observation. If I see a man kill someone, it is not judgmentalism to say "he killed that man".
In the Bible "judging" includes more than seeing something and then saying you saw it. It includes attempting to inflict some sort of punishment such as stoning. I do not see anyone stoning anyone else here. We are just making obvious observations. If a person is not healed... for some reason (we may not know what it is) they are not excercising faith. In the past I have failed to exercise the faith need to accomplish something. That is not insult or a slap. It is just a fact.
 
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usadingo

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didaskalos said:
If a person is not healed... for some reason (we may not know what it is) they are not excercising faith. In the past I have failed to exercise the faith need to accomplish something. That is not insult or a slap. It is just a fact.

I can see why a lot of people on here have refused to talk to anyone else from the Word of Faith camp except for you. (That's a compliment)

All I'm saying is, God's will is above ours. If someone is not healed, God just may have a reason for that sickness. There are many people who have had ministries based solely off their disabilites. Take Joni Erickson Tada for an example.
Most importantly, let me stress that I do think healing can occur today. I'm simply saying that it's not a guarenteed thing. If you're not healed, it doesn't mean you don't have enough faith, but there is something you don't understand going on. There are many instances in the Bible where men of God like Paul, and Timothy, were sick. In those times, did they tell each other to "claim their healing?" No. We see in one instance where Timothy is told to drink some wine for his stomach.
I've been so busy before in life, (many times doing things in different ministries) that the only way I've been able to have personal time with God is to be laid on my back with a cold. Oh, and I'll save some people some keystrokes..."That's because you weren't focused on God! That's a sin! You got sick for that sin!"
Sorry, but I don't buy that. I wasn't necessarilly sinning before I'd get sick. I simply wasn't spending as much time alone with God as I'd been wanting to. (Note the "as much")
In short, I'm simply believe the Creator of all things can use all things.
And as for the whole prosperity message behind a lot of Faith teachers, that I see practically no evidence for. God blesses us, but never guarentees free money.
 
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