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Word-Faith?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Yekcidmij, Apr 3, 2003.

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  1. usadingo

    usadingo Member

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    I hope you don't mind me speaking up for a moment.
    I think this is a good example for those of us who are against the Word of Faith movement. 90% of what is taught is good, solid teachings. It's that 10% that concerns us. If a movement was 100% controversy and false teachings, no one would follow it. It would be easy to spot what's wrong. But if the teachings are hidden among a majority of truths, the false teachings can often slip by.
    When it comes to teaching the word of God, that 10% can mess up the other 90% though.

    I hope you understand I'm not writing this to offend, but rather explain how I see things.
     
  2. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

    +230
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Name a church, denomination, or movement whose teachings are 100% on the money. I want to know so that I can be a part of that group. :rolleyes:
     
  3. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    I agree with VW.

    For instance, There are things wrong with Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.. Doctrines. None of them are completely right. As for WOF, I do not agree with %100 they teach. But the stuff I don't agree with does not affects my or others who are WOF believers from salvation through Jesus Christ. They teach saved by faith and not works. They teach the trinity. They teach the divinity of Jesus Christ. Anything else they may teach, such as prosperity, health, or anything else is just extra. The main guts are there.

    .
     
  4. usadingo

    usadingo Member

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    However, a lot of teachers praised by the Word of Faith movement have taught just the opposite. (Salvation by faith is an exception, but I didn't want to mess up your quote.)
    Part of the big controversy in the Word of Faith movement are it's teachers statements on the trinity and divinity of Christ.
     
  5. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    SADINGO *****"However, a lot of teachers praised by the Word of Faith movement have taught just the opposite. (Salvation by faith is an exception, but I didn't want to mess up your quote.)
    Part of the big controversy in the Word of Faith movement are it's teachers statements on the trinity and divinity of Christ."*****

    So all WOF churches are guilty by association? I feel for the Episcopalians if I follow your train of thought. Because of some in high places that disagree with some of the rest, they are all considered in favor of homosexuals as pastors?

    Let me help yeah out. I attend Maranatha College. Finishing up my degree. My college and my church are both WOF and under Jim Kasemen Ministries. Here is a look at our doctrine. Now remember, Jim Kasemen is a HUGE fan of Copeland and Hagin. Now lets look at just what we believe.

    1.The Old and New Testaments are the inspired, infallible and authoritative Word of God. In the Word, we find the revelation of God's eternal and unchanging will for men of all ages.
    The Word is the divine and final authority for the Christian life. (Nope, not Hagin or Copeland)

    2.There is one God, the creator of all things, who is infinitely perfect and eternally existent in three persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (now lets see something here?!?! Hinn was once, and may still be, big into 3 Persons, 3 Gods, 1 Union. Does this mean my church is? Because its WOF? The big difference between Hinn, who got his theology on this from the Finnis Dakes is that he believes that they each of their own source and perfect union instead of one source. This could be debated. So could the topic of what type of "body" the Holy Spirit and Father God have. If I believe that God Father has a spirit body, will this push me to hell fire?)

    3
    .Jesus Christ is the union of God and man. He is true God and true man, conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived a sinless life(WHOAH! Guess my WOF church also believes he lived a sinless life!) and died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sins of all men. He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven and is presently seated at the right hand of the Father as our high priest and advocate.

    4.Man was created in the image of God, but fell into sin, which resulted in his spiritual death and separation from God. Only through regeneration by the Holy Spirit can salvation and spiritual life be obtained. This process of regeneration, referred to as being "born again" in the Word, takes place through a combination of faith and confession. As a person makes the decision to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and confesses with his mouth the lordship of Jesus in his life, a miracle of regeneration by the Holy Spirit takes place. A new Christian is born into the kingdom of God. For him, old things are passed away and all things are new!

    5.Water baptism and communion are ordinances to be observed by the church during the present age. They are not, however, to be confused with or regarded as a means of salvation. The shed blood of Jesus Christ and His resurrection provide the only grounds for justification and salvation.

    6.The present day ministry of the Holy Spirit is to comfort and guide the believer, with the final purpose of glorifying the Lord Jesus Christ in the earth. During this age, He indwells, guides, instructs, and empowers the believer for godly living and service. Every believer should be filled with the Holy Spirit, with speaking in tongues as the initial physical evidence.

    7.Every born again, spirit-filled believer should maintain a consistent prayer life by praying regularly with their understanding and in their heavenly language.


    8.
    "Without faith it is impossible to please God." (Hebrews 11:6) The Word tells us that the "just [those who have been justified by the blood of Jesus] shall live by faith." (Romans 1:17) The redemptive work of Jesus not only provided salvation for the believer, but also healing and prosperity for our spiritual, soulish, and physical man.We are redeemed from the curse of the law - poverty, sickness, oppression, and any other thing that prevents us from fulfilling His plan. Our lives can be prosperous and healthy in every realm as we walk in the light of this redemption by faith in God's Word.

    The universal church is composed of all those who are born again. Through the new birth, we are united together in the body of Christ. Jesus Christ is the Lord and head of the church, and has provided leadership for the local church through the ministry gifts, which only He can give. Every local church has the right, under Christ, to decide and govern its own affairs. (Now isn't that interesting? Kinda funny most WOF churches have this within their doctrine)


    10.The premillenial second coming of Jesus Christ is two-part in nature; He will come in the air to resurrect the righteous dead and catch away the living saints; He will then come to the earth to establish His physical kingdom, and begin His thousand-year reign.

    11.
    There will be a bodily resurrection of the dead — the believer to everlasting joy with the Lord and the unbeliever to judgment and eternal punishment.

    Do I agree with everything that Copeland, Hagin, Capps, Hinn preach? Of course not. Do I have to? Nope. Do I follow MOST of their theology? Yup. You know the best way to get facts on a WOF church? ATTEND ONE. Just stop in, take a look, listen to a sermon. Don't rely on Internet information. No matter who its from. The best person to decide if WOF doctrines, teachers, is you. Not some guy who gives you the information.

    I was just talking to a classmate yesterday who was attending a Methodist church for years. He told me his Pastor didn't believe that the Holy Spirit was a person, but a force. Now, let me ask you. Does that make Methodist people "force" believers? Are they guilty? As for THAT Church, let its own congregation deal with it. They don't need some Lutheran or Catholic next door yelling at them.

    God bless

    TSM
     
  6. usadingo

    usadingo Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Let me start by saying if you want to use sarcasm, then by all means, step up. I'm always ready for assuming someone else is stupid. But if you want a calm discussion, cut the [email protected].
    Now, the problem is not one person making bad claims, and that reflecting on the whole movement. The problem is the Word of Faith movement pushing teachers who make false teachings over and over again.
    When Fredrick Price states sickness is a sin, I agree with the Word of Faith'er who says he's wrong. The Word of Faith'er who boasts Price as a man of God speaking the truth will find me disagreeing with them though.



    Thanks for the judgement.
    By the way, I'm on the mailing list for Kenneth Hagin's Faith magazines. I frequently watch Copeland, Hinn, and Cerello on TV. And I often visit many of these teacher's websites.
    If someone decides to do research and post false teachings they've found, that doesn't make them wrong. To say someone elses research is not valid because it's not my own is stupid. We might as well throw out every history book written because it's not our first-hand information.
     
  7. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

    +230
    Word of Faith
    Married
    TSM, excellent post above. I could not find anything in those seven things you listed that I could disagree with. Furthermore, I have yet to read where one WoF teachers has denied Christ's deity or has denied the Trinity. The OPPOSITE can easily be proven.
     
  8. Machachachi

    Machachachi Becoming Orthodox

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    That is of course not the issue. Attempting to downplay the problems of a movement by saying that every movement has problems is not a good justification. Just because everyone has problems does not mean we should immeadietly cease to work to overcome them. No longer talking about the qoute.

    The problem is not so much with the movement itself, but with people who think that following a movement will answer the real questions of faith. Unfortunately a movement, or church, or home-group cannot change what is in our hearts.

    We cannot look to movements to answer our problems. And before any of you say thats not what we are doing, its obvious that to make a post with close to sixty pages about one movement, but when a post about someone who struggles with the concept of forgiveness comes up we respond with a page and a half, the bearing of this is obvious.

    I will stand corrected on this as well, as I was easily pulled in. But the WOF movement cannot live for me, and every good desicion I make is mine and not cause I believe in some movement's view of the world. Most of this will not strike any of you as something you probably didn't already know, but our knowledge doesn't mean anything until we apply it.
     
  9. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    ##The problem is the Word of Faith movement pushing teachers who make false teachings over and over again. ##

    And who do you consider "Word of Faith Movement" pushing these teachers? IF you refer to TBN, is that the central WOF Headquaters?!?! Our church is the largest WOF Church in Minnesota and we have never had Fred at our church. Doesn't mean because we disagree with him, just never had him invited.

    ##
    The Word of Faith'er who boasts Price as a man of God speaking the truth will find me disagreeing with them though.##

    Alright, so he comes on TV. Hes not preaching about sickness. But talking about how by the blood of the Lamb we are overcomers. Are you disagreeing with him?

    ##If someone decides to do research and post false teachings they've found, that doesn't make them wrong.##

    Ever tried to do a search on why they are right? I could do a "search" on "WHY" Luther was the Anti-Christ and I would find it. I could do a search on the net why the human race should be ruled by dogs and I would find it. Finding evil about people is the easiest thing to do.

    Try finding something positive.

    TSM

     
  10. TheScottsMen

    TheScottsMen Veteran

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    Thanks VW. I haven't found any of these anti deity for Christ or non trinity doctrines. As for the other WOF doctrines that are found in the churches your website does a great job in defending and showing them approved.

    TSM
     
  11. usadingo

    usadingo Member

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    The big difference is, when you look into the research, the truth is found. However, when the teachings of Word of Faith teachers are examined, one finds them to be accurate. Sure, I've heard tons of "Those are miss-quotes!!" Over and over again. Of course, I've yet to be shown where those miss-quotes are.
     
  12. pmarquette

    pmarquette Well-Known Member

    +33
    Protestant
    Any movement based on faith is in trouble.

    Christ's love was based on grace and love, not faith alone.
    emotion does not take place of the SPirit.

    then we need to erase Hebrews 11.6 ; Romans 10.8-9 ; John 3.16 ; etc. for we are to walk by faith , to pray in faith , to speak in faith , to pray in faith , and to live by faith .....????
     
  13. israel_knight

    israel_knight New Member

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  14. MikeMcK

    MikeMcK Well-Known Member

    +625
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    In Relationship
    US-Republican
    bump
     
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