Word-Faith?

[usadingo]

Usadingo, I'm sorry...I'm not going to debate with you if you can't back your doctrines with scripture. It seems your doctrine is backed from human observation, not scripture. It would be like flogging a dead horse, especially if you have your mind already made up...

::bowing to the applause::
Boy, can I call things or not!

Nice try. I can already see your faulty tactic. Make a claim, tell them to back it up with scripture, and if it can't be done, it's automatically wrong.
I can back it up with logic, but I know you'll blow it off.

 

[Andrew]

israel knight,

nice chatting with you but I think I shall leave this thread for a while. It is my sincere hope that you will also weigh carefully what dingo is teaching, for he does not know he is preaching unbiblical doctrines of the flesh.

17 When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay?
18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Like Look, I realise that I'm just wasting my time with him.

Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I shall share wonderful truths about God's goodness with those who can appreciate them.

God bless! and see you in the charismatic section if you want to discuss more

 

[look]

likewise

 

[usadingo]

And Israel, I ask you to continue to speak out against a movement responsible for many turning from God on a daily basis.
A movement that tells people that if they're sick or poor, it's their own fault.
A movment that everyone outside of it disagrees with it's teachings and sees the danger in them.
While the essentials in the movement are there, the teaching taught do more harm than good.
I pray you continue to see that.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

And Israel, I ask you to continue to speak out against a movement responsible for many turning from God on a daily basis.

MOre people are coming to the charismatic/faith movement _and staying_ than anyother area of the Christian faith. Maybe you are referring to some other movement?

A movement that tells people that if they're sick or poor, it's their own fault.

I am not sure what movement you are referring to... the WOF I know does not do this.
What we do is to proclaim GOd to be true and every man a liar. We walk by faith not by sight. We do not try to justify ourselves at the expence of God... i.e. blaming God for our own weakness and lack. Blaming God for things He did not do is the opposite of faith and is the opposite of praise and worship.

A movment that everyone outside of it disagrees with it's teachings and sees the danger in them.

I would not go that far... the only people who see "danger" are the same ones who see a danger in everyone! Even people like Billy Graham and Mother Teresa are considered "heretics" by these ones....
I would say we are in good company!

 

[usadingo]

MOre people are coming to the charismatic/faith movement _and staying_ than anyother area of the Christian faith. Maybe you are referring to some other movement?

Of course more people are flocking to the Faith movement! (and I wouldn't classify all charismatic churches along with the faith movement. The majority of Charismatic churches disagree with it's teachings)
If you were a new Christian, which would you go to? Church A, which promises freedom from sickness and riches, or Church B, that teaches we're sinners not worthy of anything, but God by His greatness offers us salvation.
What I'm saying is, more people are leaving Christianity in general due to the Faith movement. They can't understand why it seems everyone around them is getting blessed except for them. They get frustrated with God, and give up.
Yeah, I know. "It's their own fault they give up."
That's the exact problem. As soon as they admit even a little doubt, it's their fault.

I am not sure what movement you are referring to... the WOF I know does not do this.
What we do is to proclaim GOd to be true and every man a liar. We walk by faith not by sight. We do not try to justify ourselves at the expence of God... i.e. blaming God for our own weakness and lack. Blaming God for things He did not do is the opposite of faith and is the opposite of praise and worship.

I never said you blame God. People blame themselves.

I would not go that far... the only people who see "danger" are the same ones who see a danger in everyone! Even people like Billy Graham and Mother Teresa are considered "heretics" by these ones....
I would say we are in good company!

I'm refering to Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Evangelical Free, Evangelical Covenant, most Assembly of God, most non-Denominational, a large number of Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Jews, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Hindus, Buddists, Atheists, Agnostics, B'ahi...pretty much everyone outside of those involved with Metaphysical groups.

 

[look]

 

[usadingo]

Congradulations. You know how to insult.
Did you learn that in your debate class?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

No need to treat me like I'm stupid.
The only reason I ask is because pretty much anyone who speaks out against the Word of Faith movement can give you the quote where Copeland talks about God having a physical body. It goes as far as him stating God has a hand-span of 9 1/2".
I just wanted to see if you were refering to this or not. That's all.

I was just answering the question brother, I'm sorry that it was perceived otherwise.

And I know that if we were in fact made whole, we wouldn't find passages like this in the Bible...

Romans 8:18-25
Future Glory

"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently."

Tell me, if we "groan inwardly" for the "redemption of our bodies" from this world created in a "bondage to decay," what does this mean?

I am in no way saying that we are not subject to decay. That is a result of what happend at the fall. We cannot escape that except for the coming of Jesus before we die. I do not believe that includes living a sick filled life where one is unable to do what God has called them to do because of their condition of sickness.

See, Jesus was/is the Messiah. That's a guy who was prophecied about in the Old Testament. Isaiah 53:4-6 is a good example of what the Messiah will do. In fact, there are over 300 prophecies about the Messiah in the Old Testament. Jesus, through His life, fulfilled all of them. It's a strong case for who He was when examined in context.
He did in fact study scripture. In the New Testament, it tells of Him teaching in the temple when He was young. However, He didn't study so He could go around fulfilling the prophecies. That would be impossible because many of them were out of His hands. Such things like where He would be born, his ancestors, etc.
But now that that's out of the way, John 5 speaks of Jesus healing the man at the pool. Many sick people were there, and Jesus went up to the one man and healed him. He mentioned nothing about the man's faith. In fact, the man didn't even ask Jesus for the healing- Jesus asked the man!
Now tell me, if we have to have faith to be healed, how do you explain this? Could God/Jesus possibly have purpose behind His healings? And if God's desire is to heal all, why did Jesus only heal the one man? Certainly He had the power to heal them all if He wished so.

According to scripture, Jesus healed all who asked. There is no record of Him ever telling someone "no" when they asked. As to why He went out of His way to approach someone who did not ask, I don't know. . . I guess we could call it compassion. And as to why He passed over all the other's, I don't know that either. But I wonder how He "could" do that without one person even asking. He would'nt have told them no. I find that more odd than anything else. I fail to see how your use of this scripture is proof that He will say "no" to someone who asks.

 

[usadingo]

I was just answering the question brother, I'm sorry that it was perceived otherwise.

I had simply asked a logical question, and you responded with a roll of the eyes. I found it offensive. I forgive you though.

I am in no way saying that we are not subject to decay. That is a result of what happend at the fall. We cannot escape that except for the coming of Jesus before we die.

It just seems odd that we would be subject to decay if Jesus freed us from it. If anything, this passage would be worded differently. But to say "subject to decay" means it's inivetable.

I do not believe that includes living a sick filled life where one is unable to do what God has called them to do because of their condition of sickness.

I mean no offense when I say this next part, but that is such a cop out in reasoning. The Bible is full of less than perfect people that God used. In fact, the people you'd least expect to lead God's people were usually the ones chosen.
Now days, we have our Joni Earekson Tada's, Billy Graham's, Ken Medema's, etc. All suffering from some sort of disability. Through them, they are able to reach hundreds of thousands for Christ. To say God can't use a sick person is flat out wrong.

According to scripture, Jesus healed all who asked. There is no record of Him ever telling someone "no" when they asked. As to why He went out of His way to approach someone who did not ask, I don't know. . . I guess we could call it compassion. And as to why He passed over all the other's, I don't know that either. But I wonder how He "could" do that without one person even asking. He would'nt have told them no. I find that more odd than anything else. I fail to see how your use of this scripture is proof that He will say "no" to someone who asks.

Here was my point with this passage.
I've met tons of people in the Word of Faith movement who constantly use the phrase, "It's God's will that everyone be healed."
This passage shows Jesus healing someone who didn't even ask. While it starts off looking like evidence that God wills for all to be healed, we see many other sick who Jesus doesn't heal.
My point is, if it truely is God's will for all to be healed, Jesus would have healed them all.
As for scripture where God doesn't heal someone who asks, simply look at Paul's thorn in the flesh. Debate about what that thorn is all you want. Fact is, Paul prayed for it to be removed, and it wasn't.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I had simply asked a logical question, and you responded with a roll of the eyes. I found it offensive. I forgive you though.

Were you offended that I was making fun of my own wording or that you thought I was making fun of your question? The roll of the eyes was making fun of myself at my poor wording of my initial statement. I could fully understand how you had not understood what I was saying and agreed with you in questioning it. I was rolling my eyes at myself, not you. I appreciate that you forgive me.

It just seems odd that we would be subject to decay if Jesus freed us from it. If anything, this passage would be worded differently. But to say "subject to decay" means it's inivetable.

I did not say that Jesus freed us from decay. I said He freed us from sickness and disease. The body can wear down without sickness to cause it to wear away prematurely.

I mean no offense when I say this next part, but that is such a cop out in reasoning. The Bible is full of less than perfect people that God used. In fact, the people you'd least expect to lead God's people were usually the ones chosen.
Now days, we have our Joni Earekson Tada's, Billy Graham's, Ken Medema's, etc. All suffering from some sort of disability. Through them, they are able to reach hundreds of thousands for Christ. To say God can't use a sick person is flat out wrong.

I also did not say that God does not use sick people. I have said many times that God will use whoever is willing to be used. I do believe though that it is the Holy Spirt through them, that is bringing people to Christ, not because of their weakness but in spite of it.

Here was my point with this passage.
I've met tons of people in the Word of Faith movement who constantly use the phrase, "It's God's will that everyone be healed."
This passage shows Jesus healing someone who didn't even ask. While it starts off looking like evidence that God wills for all to be healed, we see many other sick who Jesus doesn't heal.
My point is, if it truely is God's will for all to be healed, Jesus would have healed them all.
As for scripture where God doesn't heal someone who asks, simply look at Paul's thorn in the flesh. Debate about what that thorn is all you want. Fact is, Paul prayed for it to be removed, and it wasn't.

And Paul clearly stated that the thorn was allowed (for life we don't really know) to be there to keep him humble. So is there the possibilty that he had an issue with pride? Why else would he need to have a thorn that would keep him humble?

And that is the point I'm making. Each one of us have spiritual issues that God want's to deal with. And due to the law of sowing and reaping we get to learn a lot of these things via the flesh.

I don't believe though that it is God's perfect will for us to have to learn things this way. I believe it is better that one learn by sitting at the feet of Jesus and learn to walk in obedience to Him without the law of reaping and sowing to the flesh taking care of it for me.

 

[usadingo]

Were you offended that I was making fun of my own wording or that you thought I was making fun of your question? The roll of the eyes was making fun of myself at my poor wording of my initial statement. I could fully understand how you had not understood what I was saying and agreed with you in questioning it. I was rolling my eyes at myself, not you. I appreciate that you forgive me.

I can see where the mistake was made. It's all forgotten now. Probably because I actually had two days off from work! (believe me, that's more rare than me listening to a country station.)

I did not say that Jesus freed us from decay. I said He freed us from sickness and disease. The body can wear down without sickness to cause it to wear away prematurely.

I'd say bodily decay is as much a "disease" as a common cold. My wife's grandma is in a nursing home. It's filled with people who are too old and weak to leave their beds, get around without aid of a wheelchair, and have to be fed and taken to the bathroom. How can God use them to the fullest with such limits?

I also did not say that God does not use sick people. I have said many times that God will use whoever is willing to be used. I do believe though that it is the Holy Spirt through them, that is bringing people to Christ, not because of their weakness but in spite of it.

I'm sorry, but you did say this in one of your last posts. You said, "I do not believe that includes living a sick filled life where one is unable to do what God has called them to do because of their condition of sickness."

And Paul clearly stated that the thorn was allowed (for life we don't really know) to be there to keep him humble. So is there the possibilty that he had an issue with pride? Why else would he need to have a thorn that would keep him humble?

The point is, Paul prayed that it would be removed, and it wasn't. So, we're left with one of two conclusions.
Either the thorn is being used, by God, for a reason. Or, God is not all-powerful and wasn't able to remove it. After all, it's His will to.

I don't believe though that it is God's perfect will for us to have to learn things this way. I believe it is better that one learn by sitting at the feet of Jesus and learn to walk in obedience to Him without the law of reaping and sowing to the flesh taking care of it for me.

And I believe, like a true Father, God wants the best for us as well. However, if we disobey Him, like a father He disciplines. I don't believe He's limited to what ways of instructing His childred are.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I can see where the mistake was made. It's all forgotten now. Probably because I actually had two days off from work! (believe me, that's more rare than me listening to a country station.)

That would mean of course that "sometimes" you listen to a country station. I very rarely listen to country unless it's Bruce Carrol or Dennis Agajanian who are both Christian artists. But I will sometimes tune in to the jazz station.

*Joke*: Do you know what you get when you play a country song backwards?

I'd say bodily decay is as much a "disease" as a common cold. My wife's grandma is in a nursing home. It's filled with people who are too old and weak to leave their beds, get around without aid of a wheelchair, and have to be fed and taken to the bathroom. How can God use them to the fullest with such limits?

dingo, there are as many reasons as there are people for all sickness. Some people do not take care of their bodies when they are healthy, therefore, in old age reaping the effects of poor care. Some people took care of their bodies but forgot to take care of their soul.

Some people like me, took care of their soul but continued to wreak havic on their body in the physical and the spritual. And by that I mean continuing to speak death over myself (Prov 18:21). Such as: I'm fat, I'm stupid, etc., etc. and not only not speaking life but not doing the practical things to bring my body into subjection.

I desire to say as Paul did, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course". Until then the enemy may put symptoms on me to make me think it's over but it's not over until God says it is and I don't plan to give up the "ghost" until God says it's over.

Paul did not die until he was finished. And whatever his "thorn" was, it did not keep him from doing what God had anointed him to do. It was the same with Jesus. On the cross He said, "it is finished!"

Now I am taking physical steps to sow better regarding the physical body that God has given me. I have not taken the best care of it. God has been talking to me for some time now regarding certain things He's wanting me to do to resolve that issue. Up to now I have not heeded His instruction.

But God spoke to me via something you said in one of your posts. That was, "the moment you say no to God, you're in disobedience". Now you were not talking to me in particular but God took that statement and hit me upside the head with it.

He told me that if I did not heed what He was telling me from that moment on. . .I would find myself with some more physical issues and they would be of my own making. The law of sowing and reaping. We reap what we sow. . .good and bad.

So, for a little over a week now, I have been walking in obedience in taking care of my body. Eating better, getting the right hours of sleep, exercise, and drinking lot's of water. Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna float away. But I don't want my course to be cut short due to my disobedience and/or ignorance.

I'm sorry, but you did say this in one of your last posts. You said, "I do not believe that includes living a sick filled life where one is unable to do what God has called them to do because of their condition of sickness."

I did not say God could not use them. God is able to use anybody who is willing to be used. No matter what condition they are in. By unable I'm not referring to those like Joni, Billy Graham, Bill Bright, etc, who are/were being used in spite of their weakness not because of it.

When I was experiencing all the female issues I had it was wearing on me. I was frequently missing church due to the constant hemmoraging. I stayed home from church due to my fear of what might happen while sitting in the pews. That definately put a damper on the ministry God had me in. If I stayed home I could'nt do it. Exactly what the enemy wanted. Put me out of commission. Unfortionately, that's what he's done to a lot of people and they don't know how to fight it.

The point is, Paul prayed that it would be removed, and it wasn't. So, we're left with one of two conclusions.
Either the thorn is being used, by God, for a reason. Or, God is not all-powerful and wasn't able to remove it. After all, it's His will to.

My point exactly. If there was pride, which is sin, then it needed to be removed. Perhaps somewhere along the line, pride was no longer an issue with Paul and it was removed. . .we don't really know.

And I believe, like a true Father, God wants the best for us as well. However, if we disobey Him, like a father He disciplines. I don't believe He's limited to what ways of instructing His childred are.

We reap what we sow. If we sow poorly in an area and reap the bad benefits of it then we learn how to grow in whatever the area was that we needed to grow in. However, I would think it best to learn before the mistake, not after. That way we would not have to be instructed by the reaping of poor sowing.

 

[usadingo]

*Joke*: Do you know what you get when you play a country song backwards?

[/QUOTE]I desire to say as Paul did, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course". Until then the enemy may put symptoms on me to make me think it's over but it's not over until God says it is and I don't plan to give up the "ghost" until God says it's over.

Paul did not die until he was finished. And whatever his "thorn" was, it did not keep him from doing what God had anointed him to do. It was the same with Jesus. On the cross He said, "it is finished!"[/QUOTE]
But if we look at some of the later writings of Paul, there's a pretty clear sign that he was having someone dictate the letters for him. In other words, helping him out.
While our bodies may start to fail, that doesn't mean we still can't follow God's will.

So, for a little over a week now, I have been walking in obedience in taking care of my body. Eating better, getting the right hours of sleep, exercise, and drinking lot's of water. Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna float away. But I don't want my course to be cut short due to my disobedience and/or ignorance.[/color]
Here's the odd thing (to me anyway.)
I eat whatever I want, I don't excercise, my job involves sitting at a computer all day, some nights I sleep too much, others not enough, I don't wear a coat much in the winter, I don't use umbrellas in the rain, and yet I get sick less than anyone I know. I pray for healing when I'm sick, but I never claim it over scripture, go for a special healing to anyone, or do anything but follow God as best as I can.

I did not say God could not use them. God is able to use anybody who is willing to be used. No matter what condition they are in. By unable I'm not referring to those like Joni, Billy Graham, Bill Bright, etc, who are/were being used in spite of their weakness not because of it.

Ok, so here's what I'm getting. Let me know if you'd agree.
Sickness is a result of sin, and God can still use these sicknesses and people for His glory.
My question though, can the sicknesses come from God?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

What do you get when you play a country song backwards? You get your wife back, your dog back, your truck back. . . .

But if we look at some of the later writings of Paul, there's a pretty clear sign that he was having someone dictate the letters for him. In other words, helping him out.
While our bodies may start to fail, that doesn't mean we still can't follow God's will.

I agree. And that's the point I'm making too. Paul, if there was a physical issue did not let the enemy dictate for him whether or not he was going to write those letters, which we now know as scripture. IF he was unable to write for himself, he trusted God to do whatever necessary to get accomplished what he was called to accomplish. He could have given up but he did'nt. He basically kicked the devil in the teeth by writing the majority of the New Testament. I believe, IF there was a physical issue, Paul trusted in God for deliverence from it and while waiting for God's timeing, whether here or there, did whatever he had to do to keep doing what God had called him to do.

I use to share in leading a worship team at a church I use to attend in California. I shared this with 2 other guitar players, Diana and Joe, who where much better at playing the guitar than I am but we would trade off each week. One would lead and the other two would do backup.

Anyway, Diana pretty regularly, on her day's to lead would become ill with a throat infection and it ended up that either I or Joe would lead which we did not mind but that was not the issue. Diana understood the infection to be an attack of the enemy but she never fought back. She just gave in to it.

I however, whenever that would happen, would sing anyway. And I can't think of one time where the infection was still there after the praise and worship started.

Here's the odd thing (to me anyway.)
I eat whatever I want, I don't excercise, my job involves sitting at a computer all day, some nights I sleep too much, others not enough, I don't wear a coat much in the winter, I don't use umbrellas in the rain, and yet I get sick less than anyone I know. I pray for healing when I'm sick, but I never claim it over scripture, go for a special healing to anyone, or do anything but follow God as best as I can.

And I have no problem with that. However for me, God has been dealing with me for several months now on eating differently. My guess is that I'm quite a bit older than you, although being as you know who Steve Taylor is maybe not but anyway. . .

I will be 50 on my next birthday. . .which is Feb 20, you can mark your calender now and comparing myself to others my age I am in great health. I have however, all my life struggled with weight. . .too much of it. And God has been showing me that I need to allow Him to help me in that area so that when I am old, I will not have the old age problems that most old people have. Just like I don't have the health issues that most overweight 50 year olds have.

I need to do something now so that I am not put out of commission by my own rebellion, disobedience, and ignorance. Since I started this a little over a week ago it seems that everywhere I turn I'm coming upon TV programs and/or articles where I find confirmation of what God Himself has already instructed me to do. I have no doubt whatsoever He has told me to do this.

Generally, from what I hear, part of getting older involves not being able to eat as care-free as one use to. I love milk and use to drink it all the time, but then I started experiencing migrane headaches during the night. I would also wake up all stuffed up. In prayer, God told me to stop drinking milk. Now why He just did not heal my body instead, I don't know. But He told me to stop so I stopped. I started drinking soy milk which I found a brand that's really good and does taste like cow's milk and my headaches have gone away and I don't have the sinus issues either.


When I've needed finances God has always been faithful to supply. Most of the time that has taken form in "overtime" at my job. I'm working a lot of overtime right now and I really need it. I sell AVON on the side and business has increased for me. Actually, I'm a really lousy AVON lady and I can only emagine what I would do if I tried.

But there's also been times when the money literally fell in my lap. One morning several years ago, I was praying for money to buy food. I had no food in my house and no money to buy any. That morning while walking my dog, at like 5:30 in the morning, in the middle of the apartment parking lot, I look down on the ground and I see a folded $1 bill. I pick it up and unfold it and inside is a $20 bill. Then I look on the ground again and there are several $20 bills scattered around. God provided and I even shared it with another person in the same predicament as I was. Things like this have happened to me so many times that I have no doubt that my needs will not be unmet. Whether in the natural or the supernatural, they will be met.

Ok, so here's what I'm getting. Let me know if you'd agree.
Sickness is a result of sin, and God can still use these sicknesses and people for His glory.
My question though, can the sicknesses come from God?

I believe that God has set a law of sowing and reaping in place. It is set. Set in stone. He does not interfere with that law that He set.

If we sow to the flesh we will in the flesh reap corruption and if we sow to the Spirit we will of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Gal 6:8) I don't believe that is spiritual only.

Each of us is a spirit, who lives in a body and possesses a soul. We are 3 parts. Everything we think or do effects us as a whole. I believe scripture covers both physical and spiritual. In my view, I can not have one without the other. They must work together. If sowing to the flesh corrupts me spiritually it will also corrupt me physically.

While one may be able to eat whatever they want now. IF somewhere along the line God starts telling them otherwise. . .it is best to heed the instruction because if they don't then they will be in disobedience and it will effect them spiritually and physically. And that goes with anything God tells us.

So, being as reaping what we've sowed was set in stone by God, then I guess I might try to say that He gave me sickness. . . but then I did have a choice. And if I made the disobedient choice then I could not really say it came from Him. . .it came from my choice.

 

[look]

"And Jesus went forth...moved with compassion...and he healed their sick. And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them: Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel." (Matthew 14:14; 15:30-31)

Religious tradition says that God gets glory when we bear up nobly under the agony of sickness and disease. But that's not what the Bible says. It says God gets glory when the blind see and the lame walk and the maimed are made whole!

In India or Africa where people haven't been taught those kinds of religious traditions, when somebody stands up and announces, "I come to you as a messenger from the most high God," people believe what he has to say. When they hear that Jesus, the King of Kings, shed His blood for them; when they hear that He's sent His messenger to tell them that He'll deliver them from sin and sickness and death today, they get excited. They don't argue with the Word of God. So you know what happens?

People begin to get healed. People start throwing away their crutches and flinging off their bandages!

When we learn to hear the Word of God like that, the same thing will happen to us. God is no respecter of persons. His Word works for everyone. It's how we receive it that makes the difference!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

look,

In his book "I Just Saw Jesus", Paul Eschelman writes about when the Campus Crusade for Christ, Jesus film teams show the film in other countries. He tell how frequently, people who are use to the supernatural in an evil way so readily believe what they see Jesus doing on the screen. They expect that He will do that for them to, and along with the many conversions there are healings manifesting as well.

 

[usadingo]

What do you get when you play a country song backwards? You get your wife back, your dog back, your truck back. . . .

Ugh...
I've heard it before, but for the life of me couldn't remember the punch line.

I agree. And that's the point I'm making too. Paul, if there was a physical issue did not let the enemy dictate for him whether or not he was going to write those letters, which we now know as scripture. IF he was unable to write for himself, he trusted God to do whatever necessary to get accomplished what he was called to accomplish. He could have given up but he did'nt. He basically kicked the devil in the teeth by writing the majority of the New Testament. I believe, IF there was a physical issue, Paul trusted in God for deliverence from it and while waiting for God's timeing, whether here or there, did whatever he had to do to keep doing what God had called him to do.

I think we're seeing things the same, but differently because of our perspectives. A lot like two people describing a sculpture from different angles.
I see the example of Paul as God using Paul through his affliction. I think it boils down to a moot point.

My guess is that I'm quite a bit older than you, although being as you know who Steve Taylor is maybe not but anyway. . .

I will be 50 on my next birthday. . .which is Feb 20,

Yeah, you're older. I'll be 24 in October. I know about Steve Taylor through my fascanation with music. My friends often refer to me as the Matt Pinfield of Christian music. (If you don't know he is, he is a former VJ for MTV that was known for knowing practically anything and everything about music.)
Anyway, my dream in life is to go into the business end of the Christian music industry. Management first, then production, someday my own label. All God willing of course. I heard a speaker when I was younger who said to chase your dreams while you're young. We live in a world where we can always try again if we screw up. So, I'll be chasing these dreams soon and see where God takes it.

But there's also been times when the money literally fell in my lap. One morning several years ago, I was praying for money to buy food. I had no food in my house and no money to buy any. That morning while walking my dog, at like 5:30 in the morning, in the middle of the apartment parking lot, I look down on the ground and I see a folded $1 bill. I pick it up and unfold it and inside is a $20 bill. Then I look on the ground again and there are several $20 bills scattered around. God provided and I even shared it with another person in the same predicament as I was. Things like this have happened to me so many times that I have no doubt that my needs will not be unmet. Whether in the natural or the supernatural, they will be met.I believe that God has set a law of sowing and reaping in place. It is set. Set in stone. He does not interfere with that law that He set.

The difference with me is, I agree God provides. I simply don't believe He guarentees prosperity. He gives food when we're hungry, but not a chain of McDonald's. He can, but it's not a guarenteed thing. I don't think I'm disagreeing with you here though.

So, being as reaping what we've sowed was set in stone by God, then I guess I might try to say that He gave me sickness. . . but then I did have a choice. And if I made the disobedient choice then I could not really say it came from Him. . .it came from my choice.

Here's my questions then.
If God gave you the sickness, isn't it up to God when to take it away?
And if God can give sicknesses, than can we say that living a life free from sickness can be guarenteed?

 

[usadingo]

When we learn to hear the Word of God like that, the same thing will happen to us. God is no respecter of persons. His Word works for everyone. It's how we receive it that makes the difference!

Too bad this passage you're referencing is about God showing no partiallity among backgrounds. Specifically, Jew or Gentile. It mentions nothing about person to person.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Too bad this passage you're referencing is about God showing no partiallity among backgrounds. Specifically, Jew or Gentile. It mentions nothing about person to person.

So would you say dingo that. . . God does show partiality from person to person?

Here is a place where we seem to differ also. I read scripture and when I see God talking to His people, which I am part of, then He is talking to me too. Especially when He's talking about Himself and His relationship with His children. If He says He play's no favorites, it means He play's no favorites. . .period.