Word-Faith?

[SavedByGrace3]

I can see why a lot of people on here have refused to talk to anyone else from the Word of Faith camp except for you. (That's a compliment)

Thank you for that. I hope to always come across as fair. If I do not, please forgive. But if I do sometimes seem overbearing, then it is not because I think less of you, but because I have found something so wonderful that I would like to share it with everyone who will listen! And in fairness to my fellow faithers, I think this applies to them also.

All I'm saying is, God's will is above ours. If someone is not healed, God just may have a reason for that sickness. There are many people who have had ministries based solely off their disabilites. Take Joni Erickson Tada for an example.

And we can agree on this fact: the will of God is above ours. WOF teaches that, but also believes that the will of God has in fact been revealed for us. Where were part is in the believing.
When do you actually begin to believe that you received what you asked for?
Mark 11:24
(BBE) For this reason I say to you, Whatever you make a request for in prayer, have faith that it has been given to you, and you will have it.
This verse seems to say that you have to believe that you have received the object of your prayer before you actually see it. So if you think the will of God is still up in the air, then there is no way you can do this. WOF does not wait for any evidence before we begin to affirm that we receive. If I have a headache, and pray to be healed, I immedately begin to thank Him for the healing. This is faith in action. I received because He said I would. No other evidence other than what His Word said.
So we differ in this point. WOF believes that the will of God has already been declared.

Most importantly, let me stress that I do think healing can occur today. I'm simply saying that it's not a guarenteed thing. If you're not healed, it doesn't mean you don't have enough faith, but there is something you don't understand going on. There are many instances in the Bible where men of God like Paul, and Timothy, were sick. In those times, did they tell each other to "claim their healing?" No. We see in one instance where Timothy is told to drink some wine for his stomach.

I agree on this also. Sometimes there are things going on that we do not know or understand. But I believe, ultimately, in every case, God wants us to prosper and be in health. If we do not, we will have to say that we do not know why. For some reason we cannot exercise the faith needed to accomplish what is needed. But as I pointed out above, we do believe that the will of God is set. It is no longer being decided. It is settled in heaven.
As for Timothy, we do not know what Paul said to him when they were together. But I know in my life and interactions with the sick, there are times when the only thing left to do is to go to the doctor, take medicine, have an operation... whatever. God certainly wants us well and if we need these things, then so be it.
There is also the principle of reaping in the flesh what is sown in the flesh... but that is another issue.

I've been so busy before in life, (many times doing things in different ministries) that the only way I've been able to have personal time with God is to be laid on my back with a cold. Oh, and I'll save some people some keystrokes..."That's because you weren't focused on God! That's a sin! You got sick for that sin!"
Sorry, but I don't buy that. I wasn't necessarilly sinning before I'd get sick. I simply wasn't spending as much time alone with God as I'd been wanting to. (Note the "as much")

I agree. Sickness is rarely caused by sin (IMHO). More often sickness is just naturally occuring things that happen to everyone. A cold. A stubbed toe. There is no spiritual or deep hidden significance to these things. Sometimes (most of the time!) a cold is just a cold. However, I do not think that we can say it is the will of God for us to endure this... but it does happen.

In short, I'm simply believe the Creator of all things can use all things.

Of course He can... and does. Ultimately He has a perfect will for us all. And all we are saying is: if we walk perfectly and believe as He told us to believe... then He will be able to accomplish much more to His glory. Surely everyone must believe it gives more glory to God for someone to be healed than for someone to be sick. It is a better testimony for God to be delivered that to be oppressed. WOF wants to get out the basic Bible message that "God is Good and His mercy endures forever..." and that "He that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who dilegently seek Him..."
This truths are foundational in our relationship with Him.

And as for the whole prosperity message behind a lot of Faith teachers, that I see practically no evidence for. God blesses us, but never guarentees free money.

Prosperity, I believe, in the Biblical model, means to receive the fruit of your labor. It does not always mean big cars or fancy houses. It can, and sometimes does! But more basically, it means needs being met.

Thanks for the discussion. And blessings to you!

 

[LeeS]

"I like Snickers better than Butterfinger."
"I prefer to think dry socks are better than wet."
There's a difference between accusing and stating opinion.

And which one are you doing? Accusing or stating your opinion?

If two people do the same thing, there's a chance they'll get compared. How about you move past your finger pointing and get to the topics at hand.

So your saying the WOF people are physically slaughtering people like Hitler and Manson? And who are you comparing yourself to?

I believe the topic at hand was what is the "Word-Faith Movement? Post #1. And who better to answer than those who are of that movement?

The best explination I got was basically, "That's my interpretation of the verse. You might see it differently."

Are we to understand then that you believe that you have total and full understanding of everything that God has set forth in His Word? Is is impossible that you might see it differently from what God intended, or are you perfect?

And I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with someone telling people that if they follow God, He'll make them rich and they'll never be sick.

Which person on this thread said that?

believe in absolute truth. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. If someone is wrong based on those absolutes, I'm going to call them on it.

Are you claiming to be in absoulte agreement with God? You are walkng in perfect harmony with Him and are making absolutly no error or missunderstanding?

And based on how many times I've had to re-explain what I originally said, it appears you're not listening either.

Ah, the infamous counter attack. But you did say "either", so I guess you are admitting to something.

What you said originally is found in Post #75. And I responded by giving you 3 web sites that showed your observation of WOF to be incorrect in post # 147 And in post # 153 you claim that the sites are quoting poor Hank wrongly.

See! I may have joined in late, but I did read all the post's and I have paid attention.

 

[LeeS]

What is the Word-Faith movement?  Heard it mentioned the other day and not sure what it is.

What I understand the Word-Faith movement to be is believing everything that God says in the Word, to be the truth, and then standing on that truth in faith that because God said it, that settles it.

I may not be rich but my needs are met. Whatever I need for whatever God calls me to do, will be supplied by God at/in the time I need it. If God has called me to the mission field then I don't need to fret over how I'm going to get the funds to make it happen. God called me, therefore that means that God will supply. The only way that need will go un-met is if I get in the way and try to figure it all out in my own efforts and then whine and complain because it does not work according to my efforts. Whining and complaning kept the Israelites wandering in the desert for 40 years so I've learned real quick that whining and complaining is a bad idea.

I may also have some physical problems but standing in faith on the Word would be knowing that God did not make me sick. I believe there are many reasons people are sick. One is due to sin. Another is due to an attack of our enemy. It's the Bible that say's satan is a thief, liar, and destroyer. Why would we attribute any of those things to God? Another, is just because your body got worn out and the immune system was overcome. For whatever the reason, I don't believe God wants me sick. So I stand on that knowledge, and I stand believing that God is not a liar, a thief, or a destroyer.

Lee

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

My brother dingo,

I am more than happy to discuss the issue with you, but I'm having a difficult time surviving the verbal slaps you keep giving me. I wish that I could say that I am so deep into God that I don't feel them. . .but I'm not there yet.

If you feel that I have done this same thing to you, then I deeply apologize. Please forgive me. As didaskalos, in the passion of wanting to help someone understand something I can sometimes come on strong but I can assure you it is purely unintentional.

And Charles Manson believes he's done nothing wrong. I'm not comparing you to Manson, just stating the point that beliefs are not always facts.

You are right dingo. . .beliefs are not always facts. However, when I give the scriptures that I base my belief on you trample on it and say it does not apply because I'm not using it in the same exact context as it was initially said in. If the Word says, "all the promises of God are yes and amen" (2 Cor 1:20), then what part of all does not apply to any scripture where God makes promise of protection and provision?

So...shall we talk about someone being critical of another? Hmm...

I don't know that you intended to hurt but it did hurt and when I expressed that you verbally slapped me again by saying, "welcome to my world".

I get mad when lives are on the line too, that's why I continue to try and help people understand what the Word of God says on the issue.

So then you don't pray for revelation of the truth about someone like the Mormons do? Or as they call it, "listening for confermation from the Spirit."
I'm confused...

No dingo, I don't. I'm not comfortable with a lot of these guys either, but knowing God, and I do, just like the OT prophets did some strange and un-Godlike things they were sent by God.

For me personally, I would rather teach someone the Word and let them learn to discern for themselves who they should or should not listen to over pointing a finger and saying, "he/she is false", and then me being wrong and having to answer to God for touching His anointed. That's just what I believe God has instructed me to do though. . .maybe He's instructed you differently.

If you believe I have not adequately answered on something, please ask the question again. I will answer you the best I know how. Is that fair enough?

Barbara

 

[usadingo]

And which one are you doing? Accusing or stating your opinion?

Stating fact. I'd have to say something about you to make an accusation.

So your saying the WOF people are physically slaughtering people like Hitler and Manson?

There's a difference between comparing, and cloning. Comparision, both the bass player from U2 and I play Fender basses. This doesn't mean I am the bass player for U2.

And who are you comparing yourself to?

Someday, I hope to say Steve Taylor, in terms of talent and impact on the music scene.

I believe the topic at hand was what is the "Word-Faith Movement? Post #1. And who better to answer than those who are of that movement?

I'd actually suggest someone who can look at the movement objectively.

Are we to understand then that you believe that you have total and full understanding of everything that God has set forth in His Word? Is is impossible that you might see it differently from what God intended, or are you perfect?

I've never claimed perfection. Looking at the Bible, I can see what it does say, and what it doesn't say though.

Which person on this thread said that?

Did I say it was someone on this thread?
I'm speaking of leaders in the Faith movement. Fredrick Price seems to be a great example. Other's have said it too though.

Are you claiming to be in absoulte agreement with God? You are walkng in perfect harmony with Him and are making absolutly no error or missunderstanding?

Yes, I'm in perfect agreement with God. If God says something, I agree. Am I without error at times? Of course.

What you said originally is found in Post #75. And I responded by giving you 3 web sites that showed your observation of WOF to be incorrect in post # 147 And in post # 153 you claim that the sites are quoting poor Hank wrongly.

And let me add again how poorly written those sites were. Misquote and claim misquotes. They're certainly good at that.

See! I may have joined in late, but I did read all the post's and I have paid attention.

I think there may be a difference between paying attention and understanding though.

 

[usadingo]

And we can agree on this fact: the will of God is above ours. WOF teaches that, but also believes that the will of God has in fact been revealed for us. Where were part is in the believing.

That's just it though. We don't know God's will at times. There have been times when I prayed for money when I needed it, and it was never given. Instead, a job oppertunity would arise, or something else that helped aside from money. If I would have been given the money, it would have solved a few problems for a little while. But, by showing His will above mine, God gave me something better.

Mark 11:24
(BBE) For this reason I say to you, Whatever you make a request for in prayer, have faith that it has been given to you, and you will have it.
This verse seems to say that you have to believe that you have received the object of your prayer before you actually see it. So if you think the will of God is still up in the air, then there is no way you can do this.

And I'm saying this verse is all about God's will, not ours. We have to believe God will provide, and not in the exact object. If we are to expect, it would be for God's provision since He knows best.

WOF does not wait for any evidence before we begin to affirm that we receive. If I have a headache, and pray to be healed, I immedately begin to thank Him for the healing. This is faith in action. I received because He said I would. No other evidence other than what His Word said.

And I pray for my sickness, and if it's God's will, He will. I believe if He wishes to heal someone, He will show mercy on them and do so.
"Indeed he was ill, and almost died. But God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, to spare me sorrow upon sorrow." -Phil 2:27
I find it odd that if God's will is to always heal, healing someone would be called "show(ing) mercy." A lot like in John 5 where it talks about there being a multitude of sick by the pool, but John 9 shows Jesus only healing one, who didn't even ask Jesus for healing.

But I believe, ultimately, in every case, God wants us to prosper and be in health. If we do not, we will have to say that we do not know why. For some reason we cannot exercise the faith needed to accomplish what is needed.

And I believe that we live in a world with failing bodies. Sickness is natural and happens all the time.
Romans 8:20-21 states it best when it explains, "For the creation was subjected to frustration not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God."
Sickness is part of our decaying bodies.
Paul goes on to write in verse 23, "...but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies."
It seems odd that if we could "claim our healing" with enough faith, that will would still have to wait around "groan(ing) inwardly" waiting for the "redemption of our bodies."

Sickness is rarely caused by sin (IMHO). More often sickness is just naturally occuring things that happen to everyone. A cold. A stubbed toe. There is no spiritual or deep hidden significance to these things. Sometimes (most of the time!) a cold is just a cold. However, I do not think that we can say it is the will of God for us to endure this... but it does happen.

But IS sickness a sin? Because if it's not, then how can some Word of Faith people claim Jesus took our sicknesses on the cross? If it's not a sin, then why do you think it wouldn't be God's will for us to endure it? Because it's a bad thing? Using that arguement, wouldn't it be God's will that we don't loose at sports, pay taxes, accidentally drink carbonated water when we think it's Sprite, etc?
(I hope it doesn't sound like I'm all worked up. Just asking questions.)

Of course He can... and does. Ultimately He has a perfect will for us all. And all we are saying is: if we walk perfectly and believe as He told us to believe... then He will be able to accomplish much more to His glory. Surely everyone must believe it gives more glory to God for someone to be healed than for someone to be sick. It is a better testimony for God to be delivered that to be oppressed.

I'd have to disagree. People like Joni Erickson Tada would never have the ministry they have without their disabilities. Billy Graham has parkinson's, but never once blames God, which says a lot to me. I've seen kids with cancer unwilling to listen to anyone until another kid with cancer talks to them.
Are human minds would say that God could accomplish so much more with tall, strong, able bodied people who can speak great. But when we look at the Bible, we see the weak, dumb, and cowardly leading God's people. If I've learned anything from the examples of people like David, Gideon, Paul, Moses, etc. it's that God can use absolutely anyone, and usually it's the person you'd least expect to lead.

Prosperity, I believe, in the Biblical model, means to receive the fruit of your labor. It does not always mean big cars or fancy houses. It can, and sometimes does! But more basically, it means needs being met.

Here, I agree. But I know we've all heard those teachers who preach Jesus was rich with a big house, and because Jesus was rich, we should be as well.

Thanks for the discussion. And blessings to you!

And same to you.

 

[usadingo]

I may also have some physical problems but standing in faith on the Word would be knowing that God did not make me sick. I believe there are many reasons people are sick. One is due to sin. Another is due to an attack of our enemy. It's the Bible that say's satan is a thief, liar, and destroyer. Why would we attribute any of those things to God? Another, is just because your body got worn out and the immune system was overcome. For whatever the reason, I don't believe God wants me sick. So I stand on that knowledge, and I stand believing that God is not a liar, a thief, or a destroyer.

Exodus 4:11- "And the LORD said to him, ‘Who has made man’s mouth; Or Who makes him dumb or deaf?, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?'"

2 Kings 15:5- "And the Lord struck the King, so that he was a leper to the day of his death."

Luke 1:19-20- "And the angel answered and said to him, ‘I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God; and I have been sent to speak to you, and to bring you this good news. And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words.’"

Job 42:11- “And they consoled him and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought on him.”

So does the Bible ever mention sickness being useful?

Psalms 119:67- "Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Thy word."

Verse 91- "It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I may learn Thy statutes."

Verse 75- "I know, O Lord, that Thy judgments are righteous, and that in faithfulness Thou hast afflicted me."

Just something to consider...

 

[SnuP]

One thing that I have noted to be a great point of seperation between WOFers and othe believers is that most WOFers believe that God does not do any work on the earth accept that He has mans aggreement. I believe that you, dingo, will automatically disaggree, and I would like to hear your view. But I would like to also here from my WOF friends as to their take on this and how it applies to the discousion on sickness and wealth.

 

[SnuP]

Exodus 4:11- "And the LORD said to him, ‘Who has made man’s mouth; Or Who makes him dumb or deaf?, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?'"

2 Kings 15:5- "And the Lord struck the King, so that he was a leper to the day of his death."

Luke 1:19-20- "And the angel answered and said to him, ‘I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God; and I have been sent to speak to you, and to bring you this good news. And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words.’"

Job 42:11- “And they consoled him and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought on him.”

So does the Bible ever mention sickness being useful?

Psalms 119:67- "Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Thy word."

Verse 91- "It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I may learn Thy statutes."

Verse 75- "I know, O Lord, that Thy judgments are righteous, and that in faithfulness Thou hast afflicted me."

Just something to consider...

Oh and all of these instances have to do with persons who were operating contrary to God. You know like sinning.

Just something to consider...

 

[usadingo]

One thing that I have noted to be a great point of seperation between WOFers and othe believers is that most WOFers believe that God does not do any work on the earth accept that He has mans aggreement.

I simply believe that God's will is above ours, and can do what He wants, regardless of our will.

 

[usadingo]

Oh and all of these instances have to do with persons who were operating contrary to God. You know like sinning.

Just something to consider...

I think you may be ignoring Job 2:3 (which, in context, was before Job being afflicted)- "Then the Lord said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
I know, I know, you'll use the ol' "Job had a pride issue" arguement, even though the passage said God viewed him as blameless and upright.
But the point is, even in passages where God is afflicting those who disobey Him, He is still the one doing the afflicting! If it's His will to make us sick, than it's His will to make us well again. David clearly speaks of his afflictions benefiting him.

Just something to consider...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

But the point is, even in passages where God is afflicting those who disobey Him, He is still the one doing the afflicting! If it's His will to make us sick, than it's His will to make us well again. David clearly speaks of his afflictions benefiting him.

Just something to consider...

I don't know that I can say this the way I'm thinking it, but is it affliction that is flowing as an immediate action on God's part or is it an affect of the law of reaping and sowing that He set in place at the beginning?

If in reading His Word we see that disobedience brings death. . .which is what sickness eventually leads to, would it not behoove us to learn to repent of what has caused this (if it indeed was our fault), and then be healed according to His promises?

Just something to consider...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Someday, I hope to say Steve Taylor, in terms of talent and impact on the music scene.

Steve Taylor? As in "On The Fritz" and "Life Boat", Steve Taylor? Excellent choice. I like him too.

But of course if it's another Steve Taylor. . .I'm sure he's equally as good.

I've never claimed perfection. Looking at the Bible, I can see what it does say, and what it doesn't say though.

I know that we are all striving for perfection, but is it possible that what we understand at this point in time is not to the full depth of understanding that God wrote it? Is is possible that there is more to every scripture we read. . . that all of us have yet to discover? Does God's Word go only as deep as our finite minds can understand at this moment?

Just a thought dingo.

Yes, I'm in perfect agreement with God. If God says something, I agree. Am I without error at times? Of course.

Agreeing in our minds and agreeing in our walk can be two different things, can they not?

I agree with God that I need to take care of my body (His Word says so), but am I doing everything necessary to insure that it happens? At the moment "no", so I agree with God in my heart, but not in my walk. Would that still make my agreement perfect with His. In my opinion, no.

With that thought, I go back to the law of sowing and reaping. The wages of sin is death. However, when we become born again we are freed from the law of sin and death. Spiritually we are no longer bound to that law of sin and death (I'm not saying we will never die), however, if we continue to live/walk as IF we are still under that law, then we will continue to walk under the judgment of that law. Not because God has not freed us, but because we continue to live like He has not. Kinda like the homeless person in the news many years ago who carried a mattress around with them and when the person died, the mattress was found to be full of thousands of dollars. The person knew he had money but continued to live as if he did not.

I'm not talking about hoarding belongs. I'm not talking about never experiencing times of trial and testing. I am talking about not living in it. Not concluding that God has called us to a life of fear, pain, and distruction. Where everytime we turn around our money is going down the drain to doctors, and lawyers and Indian chiefs.

If we're going through a trial then what is wrong with finding out what the reason is and/or who the culprit is (generally that would be our enemy satan), and learn what to do about it and grow stronger in Christ as a result of it.

 

[look]

Good post, Quaffer

I, for one will not be denied my heritage because of unbelief and ignorance...

 

[SnuP]

So if God's will is supreme on the earth as you suggest, then it must be His will for all of the abortions to take place, and for children to shoot their teachers? Stange theology indeed.

God's will is not supreme on the earth. The highest form of authority on the earth is the human will. This is the reason and the only reason for the rampant distruction that we see all around us. Other wise it is all God's fault. And if that is true, then you might as well call Him evil.

 

[SnuP]

I think you may be ignoring Job 2:3 (which, in context, was before Job being afflicted)- "Then the Lord said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
I know, I know, you'll use the ol' "Job had a pride issue" arguement, even though the passage said God viewed him as blameless and upright.
But the point is, even in passages where God is afflicting those who disobey Him, He is still the one doing the afflicting! If it's His will to make us sick, than it's His will to make us well again. David clearly speaks of his afflictions benefiting him.

Just something to consider...

This passage is written by the narrarator. I think you may be "ignoring" it.

Job 32:1-3
1So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2But Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, became very angry with Job for justifying himself rather than God. 3He was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job, and yet had condemned him.

But I thought that we already went through all this stuff and were at an impass with it? Please don't assume that I don't have an answer for what ever you think you have on Job. What is the point, anyways. Especially of all this one up-ing. You and I both know that we won't see eye-to-eye on Job, and that we both have studied it. So what is the point in even bring it up again. I was trying to start a new topic and see where that leads, and hope to stop just arguing over the same stuff, over and over and over again. Don't you think that this is getting old. That is why I stop responding, there is no point because it is all old stuff.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So if God's will is supreme on the earth as you suggest, then it must be His will for all of the abortions to take place, and for children to shoot their teachers? Stange theology indeed.

God's will is not supreme on the earth. The highest form of authority on the earth is the human will. This is the reason and the only reason for the rampant distruction that we see all around us. Other wise it is all God's fault. And if that is true, then you might as well call Him evil.

True true true....
It is ignorance that leads people into this odd belief that God is somehow in back of their sicknesses, the death of their children, and the intense poverty that inflicts many. When will believers join with Paul and see that God both is and is a rewarder of those who diliegently seek Him? That is faith.

 

[usadingo]

I don't know that I can say this the way I'm thinking it, but is it affliction that is flowing as an immediate action on God's part or is it an affect of the law of reaping and sowing that He set in place at the beginning?

If in reading His Word we see that disobedience brings death. . .which is what sickness eventually leads to, would it not behoove us to learn to repent of what has caused this (if it indeed was our fault), and then be healed according to His promises?

Considering that the Bible states places where it says God afflicted, such as the ones I mentioned, and then in places like Philipians 2:27 state when God heals, He is showing mercy on that person, (not showing His will that all be healed) along places like James which states that we can pray for the sick, and they will be healed, and IF they have sinned, those sins will be forgiven, I get a pretty clear picture that God not only uses sickness in ways we don't fully understand, but also that sickness itself is not a sin or always a result of it.
In fact, if sickness was a direct result of sin, most of us would never be well, for most of us sin daily.

 

[usadingo]

Steve Taylor? As in "On The Fritz" and "Life Boat", Steve Taylor? Excellent choice. I like him too.

But of course if it's another Steve Taylor. . .I'm sure he's equally as good.

Same Steve Taylor.
Don't forget "Cash Cow," "Jim Morrison's Grave," "Jesus is for Losers," and his biggest hit to date, "Bannerman." "Shortstop" of the Roaring Lambs album is beyond awesome too.
He was doing great things with his Squint Entertainment label. It was sad about the buyout by Word ent. The full story behind it is kinda sad.

As for your post, I need to add a correction to the quote that was pulled from me. I ment to say that at times I am with error, not without. My mistake.

And as for Romans 6:23, the wages of sin IS death, but spiritual death is what's in question. So it's link to physical sickness and physical death makes it a little off point.

 

[usadingo]

So if God's will is supreme on the earth as you suggest, then it must be His will for all of the abortions to take place, and for children to shoot their teachers? Stange theology indeed.

God's will is not supreme on the earth. The highest form of authority on the earth is the human will. This is the reason and the only reason for the rampant distruction that we see all around us. Other wise it is all God's fault. And if that is true, then you might as well call Him evil.

There is a huge difference between acting in free will towards others, and praying to God for His will.

Abortions and pretty much every other evil in this world are the result of people perverting their God-given free will. Free will is the ultimate expression of God's love towards us. Giving us the ability to choose Him or not shows His love. When we use that free will to do things contrary to His will, we are showing extreame disrespect towards Him.
God's will is supreme, but only when we ask for His will to guide us. When we let our own will guide our lives, we make extreame mistakes. Why? We have mortal, limited minds. I personally would rather have an infinite, all-knowing God lead my life.