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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
wondering why France supports saddam?
- Thread starter fieldsofwind
- Start date
Evangelion
<b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>
Why should that make any difference?
Do you honestly believe that France is somehow morally obligated to agree with American policy - regardless of the situation and its pertinent details - just because you played a part in WWI & II?
How quaint.
Do you honestly believe that France is somehow morally obligated to agree with American policy - regardless of the situation and its pertinent details - just because you played a part in WWI & II?
How quaint.
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If there is one Government that's being critizised hard over here these times, it's the now sitting American Government.
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I think that France and Germany's pullout of support over the potential war with Iraq is domestic related. It doesn't really have anything to do with the USA, but their vested interest in the Iraqi oil fields.
Just speculation.
Just speculation.
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That is also exatcly the reason why some speculate that USA want to attack. Because of the oil reservoir.
How might be the easiest way of getting control over the oil ? Having no war, or attack, which USA states they now even wants to do alone ?
It's not just France and Germany, but also Scandinavia, mostly Europe as I see, Russia, and China too.
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one reason france is against us is the fact they have big oil deals with iraq, so does russia and china and thats why they are against us going in they aint going to risk getting thier oil supply cut off
S.O.G
S.O.G
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Actually there are huge amounts of oil around rest of the world too, like Venezuela. So the worrying about Iraq because of oil in any matter is somewhat slim. Which disclude another reason for attacking Iraq.
There are just too little reason for attacking, which are one of the biggest reasons against as I see it from here. The proofs for that Saddam has big A bombs plans are just way too vague. Causing a war, which many of us agree should be a last resort, isn't worth it, and WILL send out the wrong signals. Saddam has not sent any message that he wants to conquer any country, and has appologiezed his invasion against Kuwait. And it will probably cause even MORE hate from Islam Countries to the west.
There are just too little reason for attacking, which are one of the biggest reasons against as I see it from here. The proofs for that Saddam has big A bombs plans are just way too vague. Causing a war, which many of us agree should be a last resort, isn't worth it, and WILL send out the wrong signals. Saddam has not sent any message that he wants to conquer any country, and has appologiezed his invasion against Kuwait. And it will probably cause even MORE hate from Islam Countries to the west.
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We didn't sell weapons, we spent billions of dollars to arm them.
The idea we should stop arming a group of freedom fighters because of a few bad apples is as silly as advocating not arming the military because they kill innocent Americans once in a while.
Again, we didn't arm the Taliban, we armed the freedom fighters and a group of them later broke off. Hardly arming people that later turned against it. The majority remained our friends.
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It proves a lot.
The US gets very little oil from Iraq. Most of our oil comes from the US, Canada, Mexico and Venezuela.
If have more interest, if this is just about oil, to take advantage of Venezuela and take over their nation, than Iraq.
It's the Europeans that need and rely on that Iraqi oil, because they depend on it heavily.
Really shows whose being the greedy ones, the ones acting in their own interest.
If we wanted to take over a oil rich nation for our own interests, Venezuela would have been invaded weeks ago.
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Iraq sells oil, if it was about the oil, it would have been because of the price. But we don't have much problems with oil, as you haven't. You're speculating, just as many here speculate over a supposedly far too money greedy american gouvernment.
US has long been active interfering with the world, as they wants it to be. Europe basicly stopped their heavy colonisation some hundreds years ago, and tends to let things more grow as they will.
US has long been active interfering with the world, as they wants it to be. Europe basicly stopped their heavy colonisation some hundreds years ago, and tends to let things more grow as they will.
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I migh tpoint out,t hat Rumsfeld himself stated, that the securing of ressources is not a msall part of this campaign...
What is so special about Iraq? The oil is found near the ground, not much drilling to do and Iraq has very large unexplored oil fields.
I don´t think, that just because the US helped out Europe some 50 years ago, Europe should now fawn eternally over the US. Mainland Erope helped out the US before that and the US doesn´t fawn over Europe for it.
What is so special about Iraq? The oil is found near the ground, not much drilling to do and Iraq has very large unexplored oil fields.
I don´t think, that just because the US helped out Europe some 50 years ago, Europe should now fawn eternally over the US. Mainland Erope helped out the US before that and the US doesn´t fawn over Europe for it.
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The US still imported more than 500,000 barrels per day from Iraq, and could get more any time they wanted.
Venezuela doesn't have the world's second largest proven oil sources. Guess who does?
If you think the Americans aren't acting in their own interests, you need to do a little more reading. America always acts in it's own interests first, and in the interest of others a distant second. This is reality, and it is expected; every nation does it.
Why would America take them over when they can just say "we want to buy more of your oil, right now"? Taking anyone over is completely unnecessary. This goes for Iraq as well, who would be more than happy to get more money from the US.
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tamtam92
Veteran
Well, I've never heard about this story of us helping Saddam to build nuclear weapons and I don't think it's true. Beware of propaganda. Do you have any other sources ?
Sorry that's not the sublect of the thread. But there's no invasion, and there would be no problem if US didn't arm rebels.
yêk yêk yêk !!!
Seriously, i don't think that we should always agree with you only because of History. That's a nonsense.
Yes, there are many Muslims in France. Remember that Algeria was nearly considered as part of France after WWII. That's also a consequence of History.
Thus we have to deal with this phenomenon. I believe the best I can do is evangelize them (come on, there are lots to do !)
I've read in the press that eventually France was to do the war, only because it wants to have a word. For the moment, Chirac keeps on the general opinion. I don't know anyone who supports the war in France. Yet we don't discuss much about it as we're all disgusted.
I think that's a pity for these poor Iraqis
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Oh the horrible ever-multiplying poor muslims,
Saddam the devil,
The oil crazy europeans,
Russia ? I'm sure they wants all the oil too,
China, those darn Communists,
Aliens ? They are probably going to attack us soon.
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The US is part of the food for oil program to save Iraqi lives. We give them some food to save their people from starvation and in return, we get a little bit of oil. What oil we get from them is not very much.
So? What do I care what a store 2000 miles away sells? I get most of my stuff locally. I have more of an interest in who I buy the most stuff from. The Iraq crisis has made little difference in the cost of oil, the Venezuela crisis has made oil prices dramatically go up. That's who we should care more about.
The EUniks are acting in their own interest, the US is acting in the interests of a stable world and economy. The EUniks are being short-sighted and only care about the price of gas, that's because a lot of their oil if from Iraq.
Exactly, clearly this is a war about terrorism, not oil. If it was about oil, we'd just go back to being their buddies, like the EUniks.
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Like I made clear before, America will always and undoubtedly act in its own interests first. If you believe any nation will not, then you are deluding yourself. What happens to the world, to Iraq, to Europe is secondary. How exactly does an American attack on Iraq lead to a stable world economy? Usually the uncertainty that results from war has a destabilizing effect on things, except in America, where war means more business.
I didn't ever claim it was about oil. I actually claimed exactly the opposite. Although it would be a huge boon for the American economy to have total access to the Iraqi oilfields, since it could then say goodbye to OPEC and do as it pleases with that oil.
I'm not sure on what you base your idea that the EU only cares about oil. Can you provide something to back that up besides the fact that some EU nations get oil from Iraq?
If this war was about terrorism, why in the world is the US going after Iraq? Sure, they're bad, but they're not the worst, and they're certainly better than Saudi Arabia (aka Al-Qaeda central), with whom the US is a solid ally. It is not clear to anyone besides you that this is a war about terrorism.
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The American economy will be effected. Look at wall street whenever a war is looming. Stocks and bonds are dropped and everyone looks into investing in only defense-related markets.
I could add that nations like Germany and France also make a lot of money off Iraq by selling them weapons or materials to help them make weapons.
The other flip of the coin is that being anti-US is popular in Europe now, so, admittedly, that's another factor as well.
Did you or did you not hear or read Bush's address?
Saddam funds terrorism, period. Saudi Arabia's closest thing to funding terrorism is allowing their people to send money to families of suicide bombers as 'sympathy'.
Iraq, on the other hand, has a lot of research in weapons of mass destruction and a lot of the weapons themselves. The concern is that their ties to terrorists may get to a point where they hand over nuclear material, virii, gas... whatever.
That's what bothers me.
That and the fact our forces continually get shot at by Iraqis.
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Just out of curiosity, to which nations does the US currently sell weapons and/or materials to make weapons?
And conversely, being anti-EU seems to be popular in the US right now. But being anti-US is popular all over the world on all continents, not just Europe. Some of them have good reason, some don't.
You are of course aware of the nationality of Bin Laden and 15 of the hijackers who died on Sept 11th, right? So Hussein funds terrorism; the Saudi's ARE the terrorists. The question of who is more dangerous I leave to you.
This is of course ignoring Iran, Syria, Egypt, and Palestine, none of whom are saints when it comes to terrorism. Bush ignored a few things in his speech.
Yep, maybe. Does it bother you that North Korea can do it NOW? Does "maybe" justify invasion in your eyes?
That of course brings up the legitimacy of the no-fly zone as well as the fact no pilots have ever been lost to Iraqi anti-aircraft fire and only a few unmanned planes have been shot down.
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