Womens roles in the church

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Archivist

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That's a strawman argument, you know. I haven't said anything about women being barred from a leadership role in the church.
No, it isn’t a strawman argument.

You are, of course, entitled to your interpretation of scripture.
 
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Paidiske

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So, in His eyes, we are all valuable, all equally loved by Him.

That truism, however, does not mean that we are all called to the same roles in His church. The New Testament is explicit in saying this, but I notice that the folks who think that "In Christ there is neither male nor female" settles everything somehow neglect to ever mention that we in the church are also described as being like parts of a body--head, arms, etc.--which are different yet work together for the overall successful functioning of the body (of Christ).

Indeed. And nobody who argues that ordained ministry ought to be open to women suggests that therefore all women should be ordained, any more than we think that of men.

We simply don't believe that sex is a criterion for exclusion from any given role.
 
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Archivist

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I pity you who refuse to stand under the spiritual meanings of the bible for you will be held accountable for the refusal when the truth has been put out there for you.
But this is an issue upon which Christians can and do disagree.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I pity you who refuse to stand under the spiritual meanings of the bible for you will be held accountable for the refusal when the truth has been put out there for you.

But this is an issue upon which Christians can and do disagree.
Not based on Spirit of which Christ is the head but a means of division of the body of Christ in the flesh? oh ok, whatever. I jus think that when God moves past a certain point then those that are left behind as just that.

I consider myself an expert on Paul, but hey, don’t we all.

The issue seems to be some Christians who think they are abel to assign positions of who is a hand, foot, ear, eye, etc. Yah, they're so qualified for that. :doh:

I was still getting these alerts but have now unsubscribed as I have meaningful things to work out in my own walk.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Biblically, in the church, roles are that each is to bring their own gift forward and dedicate the rest of the service to prayer, teaching of the gospel, remembrance ... et al that the first church exemplified. Anything after that is traditional adding to what the bible says ... ad nauseam ...

Shadow does not constitute substance.
 
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Archivist

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Not based on Spirit of which Christ is the head but a means of division of the body of Christ in the flesh? oh ok, whatever. I jus think that when God moves past a certain point then those that are left behind as just that.

I consider myself an expert on Paul, but hey, don’t we all.

The issue seems to be some Christians who think they are abel to assign positions of who is a hand, foot, ear, eye, etc. Yah, they're so qualified for that. :doh:

I was still getting these alerts but have now unsubscribed as I have meaningful things to work out in my own walk.
And I don’t think that anyone should be able to “assign positions” in the church, particularly not in the basis of sex. As I stated earlier, in Christ there is neither male nor female. We know that Paul recognizes women in various Leadership roles, scripture makes that clear.
 
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LoveofTruth

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You are still a physical man or woman, but in Christ there is neither male nor female.
Yes do there is a spiritual reality to those words and we know there is a physical reality as well. And so we must be rightly dividing the words of truth so as not to confound it’s meaning.
Many things in scripture have similar aspects.
 
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LoveofTruth

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I pity you who refuse to stand under the spiritual meanings of the bible for you will be held accountable for the refusal when the truth has been put out there for you.
What does this mean to you?
1 Peter 3:1. Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;...6. Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.7. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,...”
 
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LoveofTruth

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And I don’t think that anyone should be able to “assign positions” in the church, particularly not in the basis of sex. As I stated earlier, in Christ there is neither male nor female. We know that Paul recognizes women in various Leadership roles, scripture makes that clear.
Paul never recognized women in authority over men in the church. Not one verse says such a thing. Paul in fact said the opposite. Showing if a man know more how to rule his own house how shall he take care of the church

never a woman in that instance
 
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Paul never recognized women in authority over men in the church. Not one verse says such a thing. Paul in fact said the opposite. Showing if a man know more how to rule his own house how shall he take care of the church

never a woman in that instance
Actually Paul recognized a number of women who held leadership positions in the church.
 
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Strong in Him

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Paul never recognized women in authority over men in the church. Not one verse says such a thing.

Paul never recognised the use of computers in church; not one verse says such a thing.

But Scripture says that Paul had many female co workers.
Scripture says that Phoebe was a deacon.
Scripture says that Priscilla taught a male apostle - yes, with her husband, but she still taught, and may in fact have done a lot of the teaching.
Scripture says that Jesus taught women, allowed them to proclaim his word and did not exempt them from the Great Commission - which involves teaching.
Paul was a Jew - he knew that Deborah had been a judge over his nation, and that she and others had been prophetesses.

If women are not allowed to teach or preach, then God has changed his mind, as he is allowing many of us to do just that today; not only allowing, calling.
 
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Archivist

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Paul never recognised the use of computers in church; not one verse says such a thing.

But Scripture says that Paul had many female co workers.
Scripture says that Phoebe was a deacon.
Scripture says that Priscilla taught a male apostle - yes, with her husband, but she still taught, and may in fact have done a lot of the teaching.
Scripture says that Jesus taught women, allowed them to proclaim his word and did not exempt them from the Great Commission - which involves teaching.
Paul was a Jew - he knew that Deborah had been a judge over his nation, and that she and others had been prophetesses.

If women are not allowed to teach or preach, then God has changed his mind, as he is allowing many of us to do just that today; not only allowing, calling.
Well said Strong in Him. And we cannot forget that the first person to preach the good news of the risen Christ was a woman.
 
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Albion

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Well said Strong in Him. And we cannot forget that the first person to preach the good news of the risen Christ was a woman.
Yes, Jesus respected and liked women.

This thread has witnessed competing arguments, however, with one side speaking to the idea that women should be subordinate, under their husbands, and all of that. That is very much a minority POV among Christian churches.

And then there is that other POV which simply bars them from that one particular kind of "leadership" role--ordained clergypersons. Most of the world's Christians belong to churches that hold to this particular perspective. In these churches women occupy many leadership positions, just not that one.

Unfortunately, the OP opened the door to a debate involving both of these views simultaneously...and perhaps something in between them as well.
 
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Yes, Jesus respected and liked women.

This thread has witnessed competing arguments, however, with one side speaking to the idea that women should be submissive, under their husbands, literally silent in church, and all of that. But there is that other POV which simply opposes raising them to that one particular "leadership" role--ordination.
And, as I said earlier in the thread, those who oppose the ordination of women shouldn’t join denomination that ordain women. To me, that seems simple enough.
 
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Albion

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And, as I said earlier in the thread, those who oppose the ordination of women shouldn’t join denomination that ordain women. To me, that seems simple enough.
That's amusing enough as a quip, I suppose. However, the issue from the start concerned whether or not it was correct, as a matter of our Christian religion, to either allow or refuse to allow something or other.
 
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That's amusing enough as a quip, I suppose. However, the issue from the start concerned whether or not it was correct, as a matter of our Christian religion, to either allow or refuse to allow something or other.
I don’t see what was so amusing about it. I also said that it is an issue upon which Christians can and do disagree. Why would it be something that every Christian needs to agree on?
 
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What does this mean to you?
1 Peter 3:1. Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;...6. Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.7. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,...”
Dirty pool doctrine that takes verse out of context to promote biased opinions.

Christ planted the seeds of mutuality in marriage and of empowering women and children and the underling.


“Christ left an example, that you should follow in his steps. ‘He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.’ When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly…now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls”, 1 Peter 2:21-25


“In like manner…”


Paul used the Greek word “hupotasso” for what is rendered “subject or submit” and is a Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader”.

OR

In non-military use,it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden". Hupotasso - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

1 Using the military definition of the word “The wife stands behind her husband in all things when her husband stands behind Christ”.

2 In the non-military meaning, “a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden.”

3 In relationship to family “A wife cooperates and assumes responsibility with her husband to carry their burden with Christ.” Ephesians 5:22-24


“Husbands, dwell with your spouse according to the gospel knowledge. This knowledge that you have, I want you to honour the wife, because you will be heirs together in the grace of life.” 1 Peter 3:7


After singling out slaves and exhorting them to be submissive to their masters and patiently endure unjust punishment Peter then moved on to Christian wives who had unsaved husbands. Wives that were seeking to win husbands to the Lord Jesus.


They were going about it the wrong way and Peter corrected them in that. Those husbands were not people who would listen to reason about the gospel so the best sermon was preached by example.


Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behaviour of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 1 Peter 3:1-2


The pious living being promoted didn't depend on outer adornment to effect the change like they did before they were saved. They were instructed not to appeal to their husband's depraved nature to try to convert them to Christ. 1 Peter 3:3-4


Kosmos - adornment - is the opposite of chaos. Her adornment was to be in keeping with her Christian status. Knowing oneself in one's new nature, the character that proceeds from the heart. So in keeping with her Christian status the way was to confront the husband not with the world but with the Saviour so as not to feed his sin nature but rather appeal to the unbeliever’s conscience from the inner spiritual being. Romans 12:2


No one can serve 2 masters. The term lord referred to near relatives, father, mother etc while John uses the same Greek word to refer to the 'elect lady' in his epistle. "As long as the believing wives are doing good, they need not be afraid with any sudden terror of the account which their unbelieving husbands may exact from them" 1 Peter 3:6-7


So whenever you are feel unloved, unimportant or insecure, remember the following words and to Whom you belong:


“So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are citizens with the saints and also members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone.


In him the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built together spiritually into a dwelling place for God.”


Ephesians 2:19-22
 
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Paul never recognised the use of computers in church; not one verse says such a thing.

But Scripture says that Paul had many female co workers.
Scripture says that Phoebe was a deacon.
Scripture says that Priscilla taught a male apostle - yes, with her husband, but she still taught, and may in fact have done a lot of the teaching.
Scripture says that Jesus taught women, allowed them to proclaim his word and did not exempt them from the Great Commission - which involves teaching.
Paul was a Jew - he knew that Deborah had been a judge over his nation, and that she and others had been prophetesses.

If women are not allowed to teach or preach, then God has changed his mind, as he is allowing many of us to do just that today; not only allowing, calling.
Many of your statements are broadly accurate - indeed, precisely so - although they do not take all of Paul's teaching on the matter fully into account.
 
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