- Oct 8, 2016
- 309
- 366
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Hi all. Fairly conservative Christian female here. I've seen everything from how my unconventional (yet relatively conservative) dad, and my non-theistic husband, view things, vs. how differently they view things vs. how IFB Baptists, ATI Gothardites, and Vision Forum Calvinists view things. It's quite the gamut! I'm wondering who is in the right on these kinds of matters, and why they aren't always as clear-cut as each opposite camp likes to present them as. I'm also interested in more middle-ground views, and why people hold them instead of the opposite extremes.
Anyway, my dad is a mid-sixties, Episcopalian raised, Lutheran and Pentecostal exposed, fairly easygoing guy who has thought now for quite some time that people can be saved after they die, that hell is not eternal, that Christ is coming back soon, that the End Times are near, that Israel's nationhood has Biblical prophecy significance, that Donald Trump is a good Christian man, and yet that we need to view and magnify love beyond legalistic rules and regulations. He's very emotionally expressive, loves poetry and music, thinks people need to be positive and friendly, and hates in-depth theological debate and pedantry (even though he himself is highly intellectual when actually put to the test).
With all of that in view, it interests me that he fiercely and fully approved my marriage to a non-theistic guy who is noble, stoic, loyal, creative, and intellectual. He did this in the face of patriarchal Calvinists who tried to break me and my fiance apart. He reminded the Calvinists -- even though my dad is not the kind of guy who enjoys wielding authority -- that he was in charge of me, as my daughter, and that he didn't think my choice of man was contrary to God's will. He told the Calvinists that love was more important than following rules or the law, and that my then-fiance's love for me was proof that he could be saved in spite of my then-fiance not believing the Christian faith (the Calvinists tried to break me and my fiance apart because my fiance wasn't Christian).
My dad, my now-husband (since 2016), and even my conservative LCMS elder pastor all believe that women are NOT men's property, and should be given some freedom in their lives and views, despite holding some otherwise very different (or complete lack of) theological views.
My dad once told me that he thought one of the conservative patriarchal Calvinist women had such a timid and frightened look that he warned me not to follow in their footsteps. He thought they were legalistic, proud, and controlling in some ways.
My husband, meanwhile, told me that he found very clear differences between patriarchal Calvinists and my former IFB church, vs. Calvary Chapel and the LCMS church. He said the patriarchal Calvinists and IFB church members hardly allowed their women and wives to speak, whereas he saw the Calvary Chapel and LCMS women as more free to be actual human beings with views and opinions. I found this interesting because all groups forbid women's ordinaton (as the Apostle Paul wrote), and all groups are roughly considered 'Conservative Christian' -- but the patriarchal Calvinists and IFB churches also forbid women to do many other things, especially the patriarchal Calvinists, who forbid their women even side jobs, higher education, or the right to vote in many instances. My dad and husband both think this is very excessive, even though one is theistic and the other isn't.
All these divides remind me how different Christianity can look, even among people allegedly in the same group -- or how people of opposing groups can witness and observe the same things, such as my dad and my husband, who have both warned me about the excesses of patriarchal groups, and would much rather me be involved with Christian groups that they view less extreme.
Any further thoughts?
Anyway, my dad is a mid-sixties, Episcopalian raised, Lutheran and Pentecostal exposed, fairly easygoing guy who has thought now for quite some time that people can be saved after they die, that hell is not eternal, that Christ is coming back soon, that the End Times are near, that Israel's nationhood has Biblical prophecy significance, that Donald Trump is a good Christian man, and yet that we need to view and magnify love beyond legalistic rules and regulations. He's very emotionally expressive, loves poetry and music, thinks people need to be positive and friendly, and hates in-depth theological debate and pedantry (even though he himself is highly intellectual when actually put to the test).
With all of that in view, it interests me that he fiercely and fully approved my marriage to a non-theistic guy who is noble, stoic, loyal, creative, and intellectual. He did this in the face of patriarchal Calvinists who tried to break me and my fiance apart. He reminded the Calvinists -- even though my dad is not the kind of guy who enjoys wielding authority -- that he was in charge of me, as my daughter, and that he didn't think my choice of man was contrary to God's will. He told the Calvinists that love was more important than following rules or the law, and that my then-fiance's love for me was proof that he could be saved in spite of my then-fiance not believing the Christian faith (the Calvinists tried to break me and my fiance apart because my fiance wasn't Christian).
My dad, my now-husband (since 2016), and even my conservative LCMS elder pastor all believe that women are NOT men's property, and should be given some freedom in their lives and views, despite holding some otherwise very different (or complete lack of) theological views.
My dad once told me that he thought one of the conservative patriarchal Calvinist women had such a timid and frightened look that he warned me not to follow in their footsteps. He thought they were legalistic, proud, and controlling in some ways.
My husband, meanwhile, told me that he found very clear differences between patriarchal Calvinists and my former IFB church, vs. Calvary Chapel and the LCMS church. He said the patriarchal Calvinists and IFB church members hardly allowed their women and wives to speak, whereas he saw the Calvary Chapel and LCMS women as more free to be actual human beings with views and opinions. I found this interesting because all groups forbid women's ordinaton (as the Apostle Paul wrote), and all groups are roughly considered 'Conservative Christian' -- but the patriarchal Calvinists and IFB churches also forbid women to do many other things, especially the patriarchal Calvinists, who forbid their women even side jobs, higher education, or the right to vote in many instances. My dad and husband both think this is very excessive, even though one is theistic and the other isn't.
All these divides remind me how different Christianity can look, even among people allegedly in the same group -- or how people of opposing groups can witness and observe the same things, such as my dad and my husband, who have both warned me about the excesses of patriarchal groups, and would much rather me be involved with Christian groups that they view less extreme.
Any further thoughts?
