Women Working Outside the Home

Endeavourer

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I wonder if this would be a wrench in the gears?

I have a girlfriend who has said to me that if she made enough money to support both us when we get married, I could stay home.

She does not like doing housework and I don't mind doing it at all. So I would be the stay at home husband and she would be the career woman.

I'm good with that!

I'd caution you to think about the long term before doing this.

Men can tend to struggle with depression if they do not feel they are producing. Also, your skills will deteriorate so you will eventually not feel as competent if you need to start looking for a job. Some men can handle it, but most men I know who have chosen that path have experienced a significant deterioration in their sense of self worth. Women can experience this too, but not as many do to the same extent men do.

If you chose this path, I'd suggest you stay in the workforce, working from home at least half time and retaining/developing your skills. Housework does not require full time effort. For example, if you are working from home you can get a babysitter for 2 hours during the kid's nap time and work another 2 hours after your wife comes home.

BTW, I'd advise the same for a woman, too, for this and other reasons that have been mentioned on this thread, including financial stability in an emergency (disabled husband, death of husband, laid off husband, abusive husband, unfaithful husband, medical emergency, etc etc).
 
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nanookadenord

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I'd caution you to think about the long term before doing this.

Men can tend to struggle with depression if they do not feel they are producing. Also, your skills will deteriorate so you will eventually not feel as competent if you need to start looking for a job. Some men can handle it, but most men I know who have chosen that path have experienced a significant deterioration in their sense of self worth. Women can experience this too, but not as many do to the same extent men do.

If you chose this path, I'd suggest you stay in the workforce, working from home at least half time and retaining/developing your skills. Housework does not require full time effort. For example, if you are working from home you can get a babysitter for 2 hours during the kid's nap time and work another 2 hours after your wife comes home.

BTW, I'd advise the same for a woman, too, for this and other reasons that have been mentioned on this thread, including financial stability in an emergency (disabled husband, death of husband, laid off husband, abusive husband, unfaithful husband, medical emergency, etc etc).

I have actually done this before. I was a stay-at-home father and a stay-at-home husband/father at two different times. The stay-at-home father was when I was with an ex-girlfriend and the latter with a disabled wife.

There was no depression involved at all and I enjoyed being home. No feelings of being less competen. II know who I am and what I can do and that doesn't change if I were to stay home. I actually prefer it to be honest. I am actually depressed while working.

At 44 years old, and not going to be having more kids, my kids are past nap times and sometimes a babysitter is not worth the extra money that goes out. Babysitters these days no longer want $20 for the time they watched your kids. They want $20 an hour. No thanks!

If I became a house husband I would stay home full-time.
 
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DennisTate

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No.
Women may want/need to work. We have been blessed with gifts and callings from God, just as men have - so there's no reason why not.
The Lord may well want female Christians in law, education, medicine, politics and so on; this may be what he has planned for certain women. Others may have a calling to stay at home and raise/educate their children; that's fine too.

Good point...... this idea of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus leading women into powerful roles does not rule out the possibility that the world of the future may have an economy set up where more women have the economic freedom to be home makers most of the time if they wish to.
 
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nanookadenord

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was never money motivated but liked having work friends to do things with but now have family to do family activities

Sounds alot like me.

I have the people I associate with at work and that is where that stays. I have my girlfriend that I do things with and my kids. Making friends doesn't come easy these days anyway at my age.

I also think alot of men tend to just stay family oriented the older they get and go out with friends less and less.
 
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RaymondG

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to address a point made earlier, regarding women getting into adultery at their work place, my ex husband committed adultery with women he met during work in the work place, where ever that was for him.
Do you believe it was the fact that he worked that caused the affair? what would be your way of mitigating this risk?
 
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Tone

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Of course, the historical example that I gave was that both husband and wife worked at home, yet the focus of this thread is women working outside the home. I don’t hear anyone saying that men shouldn’t work outside the home, yet in the pre-industrial ear that generally didn’t happen.

Yeah, Ideally, as @DennisTate touched upon, believers as a whole, shouldn't have to depend so much on the secular financial system, but materialism compels many. Look at the book of Acts; it kind of looks like a hippie commune of sorts...self-contained, and with no worries about bacon bringing or bread winning, because they all worked as a unit and looked out for each other like the family they were...holding their possessions in common. We also see that if one congregation was struggling, the resources from other congregations would be shifted to them. Also, I believe that there were always well to do people who made up the difference in many cases. All this to show that if we were not so busy living according to this worldly system's (I don't want to use Beast system just yet) fiscal cycles with its wage slaving rat racing ways, maybe we could find the time to extricate ourselves from it and grab hold of the economy of Yah.

*And this whole discussion of sending our women into the lion's den, would not even be an issue...
 
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Bladerunner

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Oh yeah, the above is pre-kids...once they hit the scene, adjustments must be made...ideally involving the Mom,being there for them constantly for several years at least.

There are many variables involved...mixed families...very complex.

Yes, the mixed families have a problem but to have only one parent is a bigger one.

Blade
 
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Yeah, Ideally, as @DennisTate touched upon, believers as a whole, shouldn't have to depend so much on the secular financial system, but materialism compels many.

Or ... the Lord calls Christians to use their gifts to serve him and spread his light in the world - and that involves getting paid work.

Look at the book of Acts; it kind of looks like a hippie commune of sorts...self-contained, and with no worries about bacon bringing or bread winning, because they all worked as a unit and looked out for each other like the family they were...holding their possessions in common.

Yes, great; and some people are called to live in a community today.
But the world is a very different place now and life is more complicated. How realistic would it be for you and your family to share one computer/car/television/mobile phone with everyone in your road, for example, when all the kids want the computer for homework, people need the car at different times, and so on?
In some houses people fight over the tv remote; never mind anything else.

We also see that if one congregation was struggling, the resources from other congregations would be shifted to them.

In our denomination, we have circuits, and churches may well help each other out financially.
But most local congregations struggle to maintain elaborate buildings which, imo, we don't need. I certainly think we should sell these and invest the money in people, either church members or the community; but I would be very much in the minority if I said so.

Also, I believe that there were always well to do people who made up the difference in many cases.

Well-to-do people have got their money from somewhere; if not work, then where? The lottery? Promoting gambling. An inheritance? So maybe their ancestors worked hard to save for their children.

Jesus was supported financially by women - one of whom was the wife of one of Herod's managers, Luke 8:3! I love that Herod was, unknowingly, supporting Jesus.

*And this whole discussion of sending our women into the lion's den, would not even be an issue...

If the Lord calls born again female Christians to work for him in the world, and witness among them; it's only right that they would be paid. As I said, many look upon it as serving God with their gifts, and finding his plan for their lives, rather than going into a "lion's den."

Some women, or men, may genuinely be called to live in a community and live by faith; others aren't.
 
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Tone

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Or ... the Lord calls Christians to use their gifts to serve him and spread his light in the world - and that involves getting paid work.

What I have said doesn't negate this. A Christian community would be a bright light to the world.

Yes, great; and some people are called to live in a community today.
But the world is a very different place now and life is more complicated. How realistic would it be for you and your family to share one computer/car/television/mobile phone with everyone in your road, for example, when all the kids want the computer for homework, people need the car at different times, and so on?
In some houses people fight over the tv remote; never mind anything else.

Well, what do you think congregations are going to have to do when "the mark" is implemented and it will be a clear choice between the beast's economy or Yah's Economy. Remember, the word "economy"...oikonomia (I believe) speaks of the "household"...there is only two of them, one housing the seed of the serpent and the other housing the Seed of the Woman. Who said anything about sharing one computer?

In our denomination, we have circuits, and churches may well help each other out financially.
But most local congregations struggle to maintain elaborate buildings which, imo, we don't need. I certainly think we should sell these and invest the money in people, either church members or the community; but I would be very much in the minority if I said so.

I agree.

Well-to-do people have got their money from somewhere; if not work, then where? The lottery? Promoting gambling. An inheritance? So maybe their ancestors worked hard to save for their children.

Who said not to work...of course we should work. But, do you really think those families got wealthy by participating in the wage slave economy of today? It is Yah Who gives wealth and if believing families are blessed with it, they must understand that they are stewards of it to keep it flowing through the body.

Jesus was supported financially by women - one of whom was the wife of one of Herod's managers, Luke 8:3! I love that Herod was, unknowingly, supporting Jesus.

Exactly my point, the funding will be there. Many believers are so tied into the materialism of this age, and it is this, that leads them to worry about money for the cars, the toys, the buildings, the vacations, the retirement, the fashion, the licenses/insurances, the credit, the Christmas shopping, etc.... But, what does Scripture say about it...something about..."seek ye first"...

If the Lord calls born again female Christians to work for him in the world, and witness among them; it's only right that they would be paid. As I said, many look upon it as serving God with their gifts, and finding his plan for their lives, rather than going into a "lion's den."

I didn't say anything contrary to this. And by "lion's den" I wasn't necessarily referring to unsaved men, but to the system itself.

Some women, or men, may genuinely be called to live in a community and live by faith; others aren't.

I believe that all believer's should live in community. Scripture doesn't say to live as individuals in the world, but that we would be one (together), and be in the world.

John 17
"14 I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth. 20 I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me."

First, we are sanctified by His Truth, as given in Scripture. We are in no way set apart by this world's economy. Yes, we (as a group) are sent into the world for one thing only...to be one in the eyes of the world that watches, so that they may see that our economy (household) is from above. Otherwise, if we are just joining in as individuals, the world sees nothing but another peon attempting to make their way up the world's corporate (who's body?) ladder.
 
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kdm1984

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Not all women work among men. In my current job, I help support three individuals with disabilities on the night shift (10 hrs, 4x a week). They are all young adult women (sisters), and the staff are all female.

Further, even in past jobs where I've worked alongside men, there have never been any issues. I once worked as a temp for the local school district's IT building. There were very few women there, and sometimes I even had to travel alone with guys in their trucks hauling school computer parts, but nothing ever came of it.

So much can be mitigated when you work in the right profession, conduct yourself rightly, and don't throw yourself needlessly into tempting situations. If you remain courteous, reserved, and do your job, rarely (if ever) will there be issues.
 
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nanookadenord

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As an EMT, I am in an ambulance for 13+ hours a day with one other person, unless we have a patient. We get plenty of downtime where we sit in the ambulance alone for hours sometimes.

My partner is female. She is married. Would I do anything with her? Nope! I have a girlfriend whom I love dearly! I will not jeopardize that, ever!

I have had many female partners and many female partners have had male partners. Does something happen between the opposite sex sometimes, yes, yes it does. Has it ever happened with me? Never! Even before I took my faith seriously, I wouldn't do anything with a partner.

In the EMS field it is a given you are going to be with someone of the opposite sex for hours. It's just the nature of the job. Whether or not something happens depends on the people involved. Things happen between the opposite sex whether or not they are at work. Just meeting at the grocery store can be an issue for some.
 
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Danielwright2311

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And how is this different with a man's temptation to cheat in the workplace?

Or are you suggesting that a man not be in the workplace either?

Its the same, and a sad truth also, This is why the data says men cheat more then the wife.

And this is due to wemon working in the work force.

Men meet wemon at work usually, not always, but usaly.

And they temp wemon and hit on them because they can.
 
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Its the same, and a sad truth also, This is why the data says men cheat more then the wife.

And this is due to wemon working in the work force.

Men meet wemon at work usually, not always, but usaly.

And they temp wemon and hit on them because they can.
In more than 30 years, this man has never even thought about having an affair with a coworker, and I think I’m typical of the majority of men.
 
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bekkilyn

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I think the ideal situation is when the husband provides enough for the family that the wife doesn't have to work outside of the home. Not to say that women shouldn't work outside the home, rather, they should not be in a situation where they are required to work outside of the home. I grew up with an abusive stepfather who repeatedly abused my mother. She wanted to leave him, but she couldn't because he controlled all the money and he drove the only car. Because of this, when my wife was a stay at home mom who wanted to get a job, I encouraged it. Furthermore, we have joint access to the checking account and I even bought her a car so she could travel to work. I wanted to make sure that she had absolutely nothing keeping her from leaving me if I ever became abusive. One thing I know for certain, if I ever raised my hand in anger towards her, she is gone. No question about it. I love that about her.

I find myself actually agreeing with you for once. :)

While I don't have an issue with someone (either female or male) becoming a stay-at-home parent and/or homemaker, I tend to also cringe because so many of those people (usually women, but sometimes men) have put so much trust in their spouse that when he or she unexpectedly betrays them, abandons them, or yes, even abuses them, they are left defenseless and without money or any good way of supporting themselves. If children are in the picture, it's even worse because often the spouse has abandoned them too. So I do think that while people should be able to choose to become a full-time parent, there still should always be a back-up plan in case things go very awry. (I have very personal experience with this sort of scenario myself.)
 
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Blade

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One must remember the TIMES in which those verses were written. God made a "help mate" ..out of Adams body it comes from. As far as I have read.. and the still tiny little I know of my Father and He talks.. stay at home? Hes all in.. leading the way.. go out and work.. do what ever.. He is all in! He came to give YOU life and give it to YOU ..you being..YOU more abutment.

See in the end it comes down to this. You being a child of GOD..God being your Father.. you are not put on this earth to please man. Only your Father! So.. ask away.. see try to get HIM to say NO you cant do cant try.. watch hear how many times He says.. what ever you want..
 
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DennisTate

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Yeah, Ideally, as @DennisTate touched upon, believers as a whole, shouldn't have to depend so much on the secular financial system, but materialism compels many. Look at the book of Acts; it kind of looks like a hippie commune of sorts...self-contained, and with no worries about bacon bringing or bread winning, because they all worked as a unit and looked out for each other like the family they were...holding their possessions in common. We also see that if one congregation was struggling, the resources from other congregations would be shifted to them. Also, I believe that there were always well to do people who made up the difference in many cases. All this to show that if we were not so busy living according to this worldly system's (I don't want to use Beast system just yet) fiscal cycles with its wage slaving rat racing ways, maybe we could find the time to extricate ourselves from it and grab hold of the economy of Yah.

*And this whole discussion of sending our women into the lion's den, would not even be an issue...


I tried my best to deal with one possible variation on how churches could perhaps do something about this a few years ago here on the forum:

North American churches should each have their own currency!


Whatcom Watch Online - The Truth About Money: The Money System—Isn’t There a Better Way?

City in Austria Printed Local Currency

Worgl, like many other European towns and cities, was hit hard by the Great Depression. There was mass unemployment; four of the five local factories had closed, and the people were starving in the streets. Nobody had any money to buy anything. One of the features of an economic depression is that there is not enough money in circulation to ensure that people can meet their basic needs, and in the 1930s, the shortage of currency in many countries of the world became catastrophic.

The mayor of Worgl, together with local businessmen, decided to try to break this economic impasse by creating their own local currency. They printed and issued 60,000 Austrian shillings worth of local currency. These shillings could only be spent in Worgl, so they remained in the local community and were exchanged over and over again.

The positive impact was immediate and surprising to everyone. In only six weeks, unemployment disappeared, all the factories had reopened and everyone had food. For the inhabitants of Worgl, the economic depression was gone. This dramatic transformation became known as the “miracle of Worgl.” Surrounding towns, inspired by the success of Worgl, immediately started printing their own local currencies.

Sadly, the miracle did not last long. When the Austrian Central Bank heard about Worgl’s local currency, they initiated legal proceedings against the mayor and local businessmen. According to Austrian banking law, it was illegal for anyone except the Austrian Central Bank to issue money. The bank won the court case, and the mayor was ordered to shut down the local currency, which he did, under threat of imprisonment. The town then returned to the devastating economic depression of the 1930s, with all the human pain and suffering associated with this catastrophe. Factories closed, and once again, the people starved.

Alternative Currency in the U.S.

Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.


I am of the belief that each large church in North America should discuss the printing up of their own church currency unit such as has been done by a group of socially active citizens in Calgary, Canada with their CalgaryDollars.ca

Here is a good article on how important local currencies were during the Great Depression:


Whatcom Watch Online - Story Display




Surely everybody who reads this article would agree that we have many advantages over the people who lived in Worgl, Austria during the Great Depression?!

If they can do it....why can't we?

Here in Canada the only problem that we have to watch out for is that we must pay the same rate of taxation if we earn Calgary Dollars as if we had earned Canadian dollars....so we have to keep our level of bartering at the point where our tax bill doesn't get too high.....but if we volunteered our time and our church earned a local currency from another church....it could be amazing where this could lead!
 
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Paidiske

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Yeah, Ideally, as @DennisTate touched upon, believers as a whole, shouldn't have to depend so much on the secular financial system, but materialism compels many. Look at the book of Acts; it kind of looks like a hippie commune of sorts...self-contained, and with no worries about bacon bringing or bread winning, because they all worked as a unit and looked out for each other like the family they were...holding their possessions in common. We also see that if one congregation was struggling, the resources from other congregations would be shifted to them. Also, I believe that there were always well to do people who made up the difference in many cases. All this to show that if we were not so busy living according to this worldly system's (I don't want to use Beast system just yet) fiscal cycles with its wage slaving rat racing ways, maybe we could find the time to extricate ourselves from it and grab hold of the economy of Yah.

*And this whole discussion of sending our women into the lion's den, would not even be an issue...

This seems to me like an unrealistic reconstruction of the very early church. We know, for example, that many early believers were slaves who were owned by non-believers; they were not free to live in a "hippie commune" type arrangement, but had to seek out fellowship in their "free" time (which is why Acts records so many evening meetings; because it was after work hours). Nor were they free to participate in an informal sharing economy.

I have no doubt that there was a high degree of informal caring and sharing going on, but we need to be careful not to overstate that reality or read into a first-century situation our own anachronistic reconstructions or imaginings.

As for a Christian's place in the modern economy and world, my argument would be that each of us needs to discern what God has called us to; some of us will be a Christian presence in places where otherwise there would be none. And that is a good thing!
 
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