Women rabbis

[yedida]

Interesting that Huldah, Miriam, Deborah and others bearing the title prophetess were not recorded in Scripture as to having held on going prophetic ministries. Nor does Scripture record that they ever served in The Temple, or a Synagogue, as Priests or Rabbis, which that would have been recorded. There does not exist one book of Scripture recorded by a woman. Not one.
All of this means what?
Does it mean that one sex is superior while the other is inferior?
No.
It only means that God has a design and a purpose for each and every one of us.
Only by surrendering to His designed purpose for us will we ever begin to understand His will for our lives and the impact that can have on a lost and dying world.
How can we teach that which we don't obey?

If the Law is not explicit in Torah then it is not a law. Hashem is very explicit in His words, nothing left to chance. NT commentary is not specifically words "commanded by the Lord" only some of it can carry that weight - that which is confirmed by Torah or Yeshua's own words. We don't even have any other of the NT authors witnessing to those words.
I'll repeat that EVEN Paul said that by 2 or 3 witnesses every word will be established. Where are these 2 or 3 witnesses? You haven't given them yet.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Interesting that Huldah, Miriam, Deborah and others bearing the title prophetess were not recorded in Scripture as to having held on going prophetic ministries. Nor does Scripture record that they ever served in The Temple, or a Synagogue, as Priests or Rabbis, which that would have been recorded. There does not exist one book of Scripture recorded by a woman. Not one.
All of this means what?
Does it mean that one sex is superior while the other is inferior?
No.
It only means that God has a design and a purpose for each and every one of us.
Only by surrendering to His designed purpose for us will we ever begin to understand His will for our lives and the impact that can have on a lost and dying world.
How can we teach that which we don't obey?

No. It means that men traditionally have not cared what women had to say. It is the judgment of men that has kept women silent, not the desire of God.

 

[yonah_mishael]

It has become painfully obvious to me especially in the last year how important this is for us to learn, to put away the old division and enmity between men and women as we move toward being without spot and blemish.

I like this. Thanks for your post.

 

[xDenax]

No. It means that men traditionally have not cared what women had to say. It is the judgment of men that has kept women silent, not the desire of God.

 

[etZion]

No. It means that men traditionally have not cared what women had to say. It is the judgment of men that has kept women silent, not the desire of God.

Agreed, well said, it is a tradition of men that teaches this way.

 

[Mr. Donut]

If the Law is not explicit in Torah then it is not a law. Hashem is very explicit in His words, nothing left to chance. NT commentary is not specifically words "commanded by the Lord" only some of it can carry that weight - that which is confirmed by Torah or Yeshua's own words. We don't even have any other of the NT authors witnessing to those words.
I'll repeat that EVEN Paul said that by 2 or 3 witnesses every word will be established. Where are these 2 or 3 witnesses? You haven't given them yet.

No. It means that men traditionally have not cared what women had to say. It is the judgment of men that has kept women silent, not the desire of God.

I like this. Thanks for your post.

All very interesting posts.
Can we afford to be dismissive of Torah?
God has communicated through the Scripture to mankind His purpose for the headship, are we now in a position to re-write or re-interpret His Torah?
Exodus 27 and 28 clearly point out Gods position on leadership before the Congregation, or is it now somehow acceptable to accuse The Most High God of sexism? This same command is repeated throughout Torah, or are we now allowed to deny the veracity of the Scripture?

Concerning the issue of witnesses, the command was given by God to Moses - Two Witnesses.
Yeshua is The Word, the Third Witness. John 1:1
The Holy Spirit, the Forth Witness. Nehemiah 9:20
Paul, the Fifth Witness. 1 Corinthians 14, 1 Timothy 2:12
Peter, the Sixth Witness. 2 Peter

 

[Brother Sammy]

All very interesting posts.
Can we afford to be dismissive of Torah?
God has communicated through the Scripture to mankind His purpose for the headship, are we now in a position to re-write or re-interpret His Torah?
Exodus 27 and 28 clearly point out Gods position on leadership before the Congregation, or is it now somehow acceptable to accuse The Most High God of sexism? This same command is repeated throughout Torah, or are we now allowed to deny the veracity of the Scripture?

I agree! Revisionists want to be all inclusive or others want to say that it is antiquated archaic outdated tradition that has men only in positions of leadership. In fact many would rather just rip out the parts of the Bible pertaining to man's headship over women!! The Bible says that G-d created man and woman, for out of Adams rib Eve was created. We know she was not made from his head to top him(be an authority over him) nor from his feet to be trampled upon but out of his rib under his arm to be protected by him and close to his heart to be loved by him. Women were created by G-d to be an "help meet" to man as the KJV eloquently puts it. When I read of the woman of valor in Psalms 31 I see nothing in it about a good G-dly woman usurping power and authority which YHWH has bestowed upon men!!

 

[Desert Rose]

out of Adams rib Eve was created. We know she was not made from his head

May GOD be praised! being made of that material would really be nothing to brag about

 

[Henaynei]

May GOD be praised! being made of that material would really be nothing to brag about

I'm sure you meant this in light jest...
But it pierces me every time one of us women of G-d take such a jab at men. It just seems so immodest.

 

[Desert Rose]

I'm sure you meant this in light jest...
But it pierces me every time one of us women of G-d take such a jab at men. It just seems so immodest.

I love and respect my brethren with all my heart and soul, and will always do so.

But Br.Sammy's post deeply offended me as ungodly,unloving and insulting nastiness under a thin layer of prettyworded polish , so yes, i tried to make it into a joke.

But i am very offended.

 

[Lulav]

No. It means that men traditionally have not cared what women had to say. It is the judgment of men that has kept women silent, not the desire of God.

Yes, traditionally and to this day, Men only want to hear what a woman has to say if it:

1. Agrees with him
2. Makes him look superior
3. Makes him happy
4. fulfills one of his 'needs' --- "Honey, supper's ready!"

 

[Lulav]

We know she was not made from his head to top him(be an authority over him) nor from his feet to be trampled upon but out of his rib under his arm to be protected by him and close to his heart to be loved by him. Women were created by G-d to be an "help meet" to man as the KJV eloquently puts it.

Yes, and how many men have actually sat down and contemplated why HaShem thought Man needed 'help'?

 

[SAM Wis]

I am sorry to see how quickly this important issue can slide right back into a my point/your point battle. Perhaps the previous posts were not really read by some with an eye toward further understanding but seen rather as reason to stand ever more firmly on what they already believe.

Seems some people remain convinced that they, and ONLY they know the mind and heart of our Elohim and EXACTLY what He meant in every instance, especially when it comes to men's and women's roles. Perhaps this only further emphasizes the points being made here; in that there are some people who are quite willing to accord themselves to be "God's voice" and sole authority.

Since a Hebraic understanding involves "block logic" and much more of a "both/and" view than an "either/or perspective", I remain unpersuaded that there is only ONE possible correct reading in this matter.

Please, Abba, keep us back from presumptuous sin...and in Your wrath remember mercy.

 

[Lulav]

I don't see where discussing our views and understandings is presumptuous sin, nor do I think you should be evoking his wrath on us.

 

[Jerushabelle]

I am sorry to see how quickly this important issue can slide right back into a my point/your point battle. Perhaps the previous posts were not really read by some with an eye toward further understanding but seen rather as reason to stand ever more firmly on what they already believe.

Seems some people remain convinced that they, and ONLY they know the mind and heart of our Elohim and EXACTLY what He meant in every instance, especially when it comes to men's and women's roles. Perhaps this only further emphasizes the points being made here; in that there are some people who are quite willing to accord themselves to be "God's voice" and sole authority.

Since a Hebraic understanding involves "block logic" and much more of a "both/and" view than an "either/or perspective", I remain unpersuaded that there is only ONE possible correct reading in this matter.

Please, Abba, keep us back from presumptuous sin...and in Your wrath remember mercy.

I have a hard time grasping block logic. I tend to be able to use block logic when I'm thinking of something as a whole, like Scripture. When I look at Scripture as a whole in terms of this subject, I'm then able to employ block logic. I'm weird that way, I guess or just stuck in Western civilization logic.

 

[Brother Sammy]

I love and respect my brethren with all my heart and soul, and will always do so.

But Br.Sammy's post deeply offended me as ungodly,unloving and insulting nastiness under a thin layer of prettyworded polish , so yes, i tried to make it into a joke.

But i am very offended.

I apologize that you feel offended but it wasn't ungodly it was Biblical. Pastoral authority was ordained by G-d. It wasn't unloving, I love that G-d created women to be wives, & mothers. They are our 1st teachers. I am thankful for my praying mother. And for those g-dly women who are not married Paul says that they are dedicated to the LORD's business. (1st Corinthians 7).
Some times the Bible's words prick us, sting us, offend us and down right insults us. When these this happens we should check ourselves to see if our spirit lines up with the Word. When we are living outside of G-d's will the Gospel seems offensive to us.

 

[SAM Wis]

I don't see where discussing our views and understandings is presumptuous sin, nor do I think you should be evoking his wrath on us.

Shalom Lulav,

Sorry for not being more clear here.

No, discussing views is not presumptuous. Asking our Father to remember mercy in the midst of His wrath is not invoking wrath. It is an echo of Habakkuk's prayer and an expression of our need to remain humble.

Habakkuk 3:2
O LORD, I have heard Your speech and was afraid;
O LORD, revive Your work in the midst of the years!
In the midst of the years make it known;
In wrath remember mercy.

The presumption comes in for those people who are confident,to the point of arrogance at times, no matter what is placed in front of them, that they are the ONLY one(s) who correctly understand anything Scriptural.

and to the later post about block logic being difficult to understand, yes, it is difficult compared to our western thinking, but once it sort of "clicks in" in your understanding it won't be so hard. Either/or (western) as opposed to both/and (block) is my best short hand picture of it for whatever that might be worth.

 

[Desert Rose]

oh, br sammy, you really painted yourself into a corner on this one... You are confusing traditions that you personally believe to be right( and why not, i respect that much!) with God's word on this.

Paul is not God. there are a lot of things that people been arguing for using the Bible - slavery, racial discrimination, segregation, women abuse, polygamy, sex with children , etc. Scriptures is a PROGRESSIVE revelation, we understand more and more as time goes by.


If you are just one of those that builds his theological view on a couple of cherry picked verses we have nothing to discuss.

There is a spirit of the law and there is a letter of the law. And as it has been explained by Jews and Christians here, its not even in the letter of the Law. Dont make things up. BTW, i am against women pastors just because its such a hard job, i am also against women in combat, women putting down asphalt , etc. But God never said they cant lead or teach, sorry.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Seeing the thread and how much focus there is upon male leadership/the rights of men rather than women, something I was wondering was why it seems that males were able to exercise the rights of being married to multiple women....and yet, women did not have the right for multiple men. In a society where women could not be married except to one husband, it has always seemed odd that women were considered adulterous ("hoes" as it is aid in the hood) for marrying more than one man.

That has always seemed odd.

And to be clear, this is said in light of already understanding how the religious leaders tried to trap Jesus by discussing the laws of Moses in regards to divorce ( Deuteronomy 24:2-4 / Deuteronomy 24 )---as they were focused on what Moses gave in the law and the Lord brought them back to the focus of how things were MEANT to be....and why laws were given ( Matthew 19:7-9 / Matthew 19, Mark 10:4-6/ Mark 10 ) Where they had actually glorifed one aspect of what Moses said, the Lord made clear that a specific law was never given because the Lord wanted others to walk in that for all time...but rather, it was given since the people were corrupt/wouldn't honor him and a system had to be given to restrain the damage that could be done to others when marriage wasn't upheld.

The same thing goes for laws made about polygamy, as the Law stated that a man could take another wife as long as he still provided for his first wife (Exo.21:10). And for others who had multiple wives:

• Jacob married Leah and Rachel (Gen.29:23-30; 31:17; 32:22) and then he married Leah and Rachel's handmaids, Zilbah and Bilhahand (Genesis 30:1-24; 37:2)
• Judge Gideon had many wives and a concubine (Judges 8:30-31)
• Elkanah married Hannah and Peninnah (1 Sam.1:2)
• David married Abigail and Ahinoam (1 Sam.25:42-43; 30:18), then later took more wives (2 Sam.5:13) at Jerusalem (1 Chron.14:3)
• In 2 Sam.12:7-8, God gave David these multiple wives as a blessing, just as anointing him as king over Israel, protecting him from Saul, and giving him the house of Israel and Judah were also blessings from Him
• Ashur married Helah and Naarah (1 Chron.4:5)
• Shaharaim married Hushim and Baara (1 Chron.8:8)
• Abijah had 14 wives (2 Chron.13:21)
• Jehoiada the priest had 2 wives (2 Chron.24:3).

 

[Henaynei]

I love and respect my brethren with all my heart and soul, and will always do so.

But Br.Sammy's post deeply offended me as ungodly,unloving and insulting nastiness under a thin layer of prettyworded polish , so yes, i tried to make it into a joke.

But i am very offended.

How are we supposed to respond to offense, especially among The Family? With offense? Is that the pattern we've learned? From whom?

I am truly sorry you were so deeply injured. I sincerely pray that you are soon healed and restored!

b'Shalom