Women Priests.

[Lawrence87]

You know.....rather than invent sermons.....try scripture instead.

Oh okay sure:

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet women shall be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with modesty."

- I Timothy 2:11-15

“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”

-1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Or did you just mean scripture that you accept?

 

[Albion]

The golden rule IS the scripture.

It's a verse in Scripture, but I was mainly attempting to show you how mistaken the idea is that if someone else would be made to feel better by something we might do, we are therefore allowed to violate every precept that is found in Scripture EXCEPT, of course, for that misreading of the Golden Rule.

It should be easy to see what's wrong with that perspective.

 

[Hmm]

And, meanwhile, women priests and bishops are getting on with the work God has called them to do and have been for more than 25 years now in the Church of England. It's almost a tradition now!

 

[Albion]

I beg to differ. There ARE unfilled priesthood (priesthood) ministries probably by the millions if not hundreds of millions.

Actually, what is meant there is that all Christians have a stake in the running of the church. It is no longer the way it was with the Hebrews where a special class of priests existed and were eligible to be priests because of genetics, all of them having been drawn from one single tribe. It was an entitlement. But that isn't the way with Christianity. But neither does it mean that we all ARE priests and can do everything that the pastor does.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's a verse in Scripture, but I was mainly attempting to show you how mistaken the idea is that if someone else would be made to feel better by something we might do, we are therefore allowed to violate every precept that is found in Scripture EXCEPT, of course, for that misreading of the Golden Rule.

Except I have 100 related passages to clear things up for your church:
What Does the Bible Say About Lay Down His Life?

And I already explained how peoples misread the passage on women being silent in church. But you won't find many supporters with women silent in church.......rotten feminists I guess, all of em.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's a verse in Scripture, but I was mainly attempting to show you how mistaken the idea is that if someone else would be made to feel better by something we might do, we are therefore allowed to violate every precept that is found in Scripture EXCEPT, of course, for that misreading of the Golden Rule.It should be easy to see what's wrong with that perspective.

I never mentioned making people feel better.
I said treating others exactly the same as you would wish them to treat you.


Lets look at Abraham. He evidently was ready to die for God.
So therefore, he could kill his child, treating his child the same as he was willing himself. Even if it didn't make his child feel good. We even have a hard time reading the story.

 

[Albion]

And I already explained how you misread the passage on women being silent in church.

I never comment on that particular issue.

I don't believe it. My church doesn't buy it. So you may be thinking of someone else OR, if not that, you actually do think that everyone who supports the traditional perspective on the male priesthood thinks exactly like all the others.

 

[SkyWriting]

Oh okay sure:

Or did you just mean scripture that you accept?

And the laws allow for women to speak now (evidently). So some grown-up believers must have changed the local laws. Remember, there were not "baby" churches. These were "Preemie" churches. These churches were mostly unable to read. There isn't even any passages that suggest we should act like the Preemie churches.

 

[SkyWriting]

I never comment on that particular issue.

I don't believe it. My church doesn't buy it. So you may be thinking of someone else OR, if not that, you actually do think that everyone who supports the traditional perspective on the male priesthood thinks exactly like all the others.

Sorry, my mistake:


And I already explained how people misread the passage on women being silent in church.

 

[Albion]

I never mentioned making people feel better.
I said treating others exactly the same as you would wish them to treat you.

and it's a defective concept IF you mean that it applies to anyone and everyone, under all circumstances, so long as they would be made to feel good or valued by it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Oh okay sure:

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet women shall be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with modesty."

- I Timothy 2:11-15
Or did you just mean scripture that you accept?

I accept that somebody wrote that about a Preemie church. It never applies to me.
I know better because my Bible has far more words in it than the writers did.

 

[Lawrence87]

And the laws allow for women to speak now (evidently). So some grown-up believers must have changed the local laws. Remember, there were not "baby" churches. These were "Preemie" churches. These churches were mostly unable to read.

There is no reason to suppose that Saint Paul was speaking to only to the church in Corinth at a specific time in history, he was correcting them and making sure their practises aligned with how all churches ought to be. Why would he have prohibited women to speak in Corinth specifically? Theres no indication in the text itself that he was addressing only the Corinthians. 'It is shameful for women to speak in church' sounds like a pretty universal statement, not a temporal, local edict. That sounds like a rationalisation for something people have come to find distasteful.

I prefer to read it plainly.

 

[SkyWriting]

and it's a defective concept IF you mean that it applies to anyone and everyone, under all circumstances, so long as they would be made to feel good or valued by it.

As I explained Abraham could kill his son...only because he was willing to die himself.
He could kill his child, only because he was willing to have that done to him.
......and it ain't got anything to do with "feel good" or "valued"
It actually does not even take into account what the other people thinks about it.
Unless you want that for yourself.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no reason to suppose that Saint Paul was speaking to only to the church in Corinth at a specific time in history, he was correcting them and making sure their practises aligned with how all churches ought to be. Why would he have prohibited women to speak in Corinth specifically? Theres no indication in the text itself that he was addressing only the Corinthians. 'It is shameful for women to speak in church' sounds like a pretty universal statement, not a temporal, local edict. That sounds like a rationalisation for something people have come to find distasteful.I prefer to read it plainly.

He plainly refers to the local law requiring silence of women.
Does your church explain which "Silence" law that might be?
God also creates all local laws, which change.

 

[Albion]

If you want to continue this, please stick to the issue and forget quibbling over those terms. What you said was this:

The opposite of love is Apathy. The opposite of caring is not caring.
Like banning women from priesthood for example.

So, caring or valued, whatever. You are talking about doing something for the sake of the other person's feelings or dignity or sense of equality, even if that person isn't qualified for whatever it is and even when the recognition would violate some Biblical admonition.

 

[SkyWriting]

If you want to continue this, please stick to the issue and forget quibbling over those terms. What you said was this:



So, caring or valued, whatever. You are talking about doing something for the sake of the other person's feelings, even if that person isn't qualified for whatever it is.

As I explained Abraham could kill his son...only because he was willing to die himself.
He could kill his child, only because he was willing to have that done to him.
......and it ain't got anything to do with "feel good" or "valued"

 

[Albion]

As I explained Abraham could kill his son...only because he was willing to die himself.

But the Lord didn't permit Abraham to kill his son. Now, apply that to the issue of women's ordination.

 

[Lawrence87]

Forgive me, but I am tired of going over and over this topic.

The Orthodox Church venerates the Mother of God, Mary, above the angels and all the Saints, she is more highly revered than any Bishop or Priest that has ever lived. It also has many female Saints such as Empress Theodora whose memory we kept this week, among many, many others. There is most certainly a place for great women in the Orthodox Church. However, it does not permit women to teach in Church as per 1 Timothy 2:11-15 I feel as though I have given as adequate a defence of this as I am able.

If you don't like that, don't go to an Orthodox Church. We will be okay without you. I need to duck out as this topic is inflaming my passions. Forgive me if I have said anything out of anger that upset anyone or if I misinterpreted people. SkyWritting I did not mean to get as personal as I did, forgive me. I wish you a good day. I gotta go say my evening prayers now instead of starring at this screen, and I think should leave this topic to others now as its already eaten half of my Friday evening.

God bless

 

[SkyWriting]

But the Lord didn't permit Abraham to kill his son. Now, apply that to the issue of women's ordination.

If a woman wishes to be ordained, she will be.
My marriage was ordained by a woman.

1. Through baptism in Christ:

• "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, slave or citizen, male or female. All are one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28

2. “Humankind was created as God’s reflection: in the divine image God created them, female and male, God made them.” — Genesis 1:27

3. Archaeological discoveries provide evidence that women served as deacons, priests, and bishops in early Christianity.https://www.ncronline.org/news/theology/researcher-artifacts-show-early-church-women-served-clergy
Researcher: Artifacts show that early church women served

4. A priest’s job is to serve the people of God — it’s not about the gender priests choose to follow.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no reason to suppose that Saint Paul was speaking to only to the church in Corinth at a specific time in history,

I don't care who he was speaking to. Most of the disciples were appalled that Jesus treated women equally. Paul would be just as clueless as the rest, if not more so given the alligator scales on his eyeballs. It must have left deep scratches as they slid off.