Women Preachers...The truth!

[Albion]

Also explains why COED power structures have less morality and less corruption issues.

You know, that reminds me of what was said a few generations ago when women were not much represented in the top positions of government. They would give us peace and harmony, it was argued. Not like men. After all, women are for such things.

Then came such heads of government as Indira Gandhi, Golda Maier, Margaret Thatcher, and some others...all of whom took their countries into war.

 

[timewerx]

Where does that leave ANY part of the Bible then?

The writers were men, the leading personalities described in the Bible were men, most of the activities were conducted by men. What should we do with all of that, in your view? Toss it?

The Bible remains the most important book in Christianity and to me.

But in order to truly understand it, you also need to understand the culture which it existed.

 

[AllDayFaith]

I agree that women can preach and lead just as well as men can

 

[kdm1984]

Where does that leave ANY part of the Bible then?

The writers were men, the leading personalities described in the Bible were men, most of the activities were conducted by men. What should we do with all of that, in your view? Toss it?

This guy clearly believes whatever he wants to believe, and ignores evidence to the contrary.

He talks much about context, but he himself ignores it.

 

[kdm1984]

@timewerx people have again and again pointed to Scripture that contradicts your claims. You just dance around it. Your crusades here to give women power that is contrary to Scripture may deceive some, but not all of us are buying it.

 

[Albion]

The Bible remains the most important book in Christianity and to me.

But in order to truly understand it, you also need to understand the culture which it existed.

"Important" and "understand" are not very helpful words here. Shall we believe what it says in the Bible...or not? Or just the parts we decide to believe?

 

[timewerx]

Indira Gandhi, Golda Maier, Margaret Thatcher, and some others...all of whom took their countries into war.

I think USA and Israel (and India at that time) are often involved in a war regardless of the gender of their president.

 

[Albion]

I agree that women can preach and lead just as well as men can

Probably the great majority of Christians--those who believe in women clergy an those who oppose women pastors alike--would agree with that statement. However, it doesn't do much for the discussion, does it?

 

[Albion]

I think USA and Israel (and India at that time) are often involved in a war regardless of the gender of their president.

Not entirely true, but even so, it doesn't show women to be less warlike than men, does it?

 

[timewerx]

@timewerx people have again and again pointed to Scripture that contradicts your claims. You just dance around it. Your crusades here to give women power that is contrary to Scripture may deceive some, but not all of us are buying it.

I acknowledge those scriptures too!

But they're not meant to be interpreted literally because they would contradict other teachings in the Bible.

Those teachings delivered under the cultural context of the period to avoid provoking the patriarchal establishment of the time. This is implicated in Titus 2 "So the Lord will not be blasphemed".

Obviously, it wouldn't be the Early Christians who would be blaspheming the Lord but those who live around them who are witnesses to their acts. It's not yet time for them to practice Co-leadership of men and women for that will only anger those who still believe in Patriarchy.

 

[kdm1984]

Not entirely true, but even so, it doesn't show women to be less warlike than men, does it?

Exactly. Women are no less warlike, and no more loving, than men. They may wield it differently, with language more directly than swords or guns, but the war and lack of love can still be there just as much, if not more so, than men. This is why I disagreed with the sentimental post (and stereotype) posted earlier by another member about women allegedly being more "loving" than men. That's not true at all. Yes, there is a certain amount of biological nurturing that women receive as part of bearing children, but that doesn't mean they are inherently more loving than men. God is love, and God is not a woman. Moreover, that wouldn't follow the church analogy -- Christ died for the church, not the other way around. Christ exhibited much more love for His church than the church showed Him. Following that, it doesn't stand to reason that women are more loving than men. That's just another modern generality that people like to throw around without really thinking about the deeper inclinations.

 

[timewerx]

Not entirely true, but even so, it doesn't show women to be less warlike than men, does it?

USA and Israel were seldom at peace until in recent times. Not surprising in those times, whoever was in charge would taste war.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

You are actually following God's original design by giving both men and women equal opportunities for leadership.

Understand the Logic of Genesis 3:16.

If the consequence of Eve's sin is by submitting to Adam, what was it like before she sinned?

Would it be a punishment if Eve originally submitted to Adam?

If we were sinless like before the original sin and rebellion against the Lord, then there would have been no need for Jesus to have had to go give up heaven to become a servant to mankind through all the suffering, mocking and painful death that He endured for us. Sadly though, we do rebel and we can show God our thankfulness by being obedient even to those things that seem to not make much human sense.

 

[Phil W]

The Bible remains the most important book in Christianity and to me.

But in order to truly understand it, you also need to understand the culture which it existed.

Are you really willing to change what God ordained because of an unGodly culture's change?
Not me.

 

[Phil W]

If we were sinless like before the original sin and rebellion against the Lord, then there would have been no need for Jesus to have had to go give up heaven to become a servant to mankind through all the suffering, mocking and painful death that He endured for us. Sadly though, we do rebel and we can show God our thankfulness by being obedient even to those things that seem to not make much human sense.

(Sarcasm alert)
Yep, Jesus freed us from the Romans.
(Alert over)
Jesus freed us from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)
If you still sin, you are NOT free.

 

[timewerx]

Are you really willing to change what God ordained because of an unGodly culture's change?
Not me.

The Patriarchy in those times is horrific to say the least. Is that more Godly?

You should also try to understand Genesis 3:16. Why would God punish Eve by making her submit to Adam if she already did it before?

 

[kdm1984]

Yeah so done with this thread. OP is convinced in his own mind. Ignore him and leave him alone.

 

[bekkilyn]

New personal guideline: don't follow threads on this topic anymore.

I know...I tell myself to stay away from these threads all the time, but then I somehow get sucked right back in...usually because I see some other woman falling for this false headship doctrine and thus setting herself up for abuse and second-class status.

 

[AllDayFaith]

Probably the great majority of Christians--those who believe in women clergy an those who oppose women pastors alike--would agree with that statement. However, it doesn't do much for the discussion, does it?

The whole discussion is whether women should be preaching, and I'm saying that yes they can, and should be a part of the whole process.

 

[topher694]

I know...I tell myself to stay away from these threads all the time, but then I somehow get sucked right back in...usually because I see some other woman falling for this false headship doctrine and thus setting herself up for abuse and second-class status.

I hear you, there is so much wrong information and understanding out there, but on this topic it's just not worth it (to me) to engage in online debates. I've tried, I'm tempted, but... no... I'll stick with helping the folks God brings to me in person.

Another one would be money... LOL