Women Pastors?

[Goodbook]

Yes I heard priscilla was quite prominent in the church and many other fellowlabourers who were women. Pastor just means overseer, or shepherd and women do oversee their flock...their children, esp when the men arent available.

If people have a problem with it, its usually the men. They can have their titles, but as you see its the women who have a quiet influence in the church that speaks more than who is actually speaking behind a pulpit.

Its like, people used to think women couldnt be doctors, or gardeners or engineers, they are stuck in old fashioned boxes. Timothy was actually educated by his grandmother Lois and his mother eunice.

Read timothy again. Put away your prejucidices. If a man desire the office of a bishop...Paul writes he has all these qualities and lists them. He does not have to list..if a woman wants to be bishop...because everyone already knows what a virtuous woman is like in proverbs 31. In chapter 5, Paul lists the qualities for women who are elders in the church. I have hears some ppl think elders cant be women. Well hello Paul just wrote a whole chapter for elders that are women.

Both of these are for married people but then Paul also writes in Corinthians for unmarried people, both women and men. I think women can be pastors if they unmarried but if they married they need to listen to their husbands...who, you would hope, would be christians too.

 

[W2L]

Perhaps, but this "sound doctrine" could be had even if you're stuck in an island with no Bible, nor any other human. The Spirit can teach you things directly.

Otherwise, do those who were born in places who never heard Christianity, never had a Bible, never seen a missionary. If they die, do they automatically go to hell?




Jeremiah prophesied how the New Covenant will be - Jeremiah 31:33-34.

Prophesy fulfilled - 1 John 2:27

It says "no more teaching".

The Disciples only meant to set the ball rolling, that is to have the anointing. Beyond that, you are on your own.

"Make disciples" not the same as "build/setup churches".

Making a disciple means to teach what the Lord taught. You cant be a disciple of nothing. The apostles taught us how to follow the spirit in love. Jerimiah doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't give commands through the apostles, it just means people wont need a prophet anymore once they get the words of Christ. They wont need a prophet to go out and remind people what the Lord has said because we have the spirit. We don't need Moses, a prophet, or any king to lead us in battle either, because we seek the kingdom of heaven, not an earthly kingdom. AS far as people not hearing the gospel, their lives are not in my hands but Gods. I don't believe in following Churches, not that they are bad by themselves but they seem to promote teachers rather than Christ. I don't believe we are meant to follow teachers. I believe we are meant to follow a simple doctrine of seeking the kingdom, humility, love, brotherhood.

 

[Cearbhall]

In my opinion, its foolish to want to be a preacher anyway. You will be subjected to great hardship that purifies a mans soul, if that is you are actually following the spirit, and preachers will be held to a greater degree of judgment as well.

So you think there should be no preachers?

 

[W2L]

So you think there should be no preachers?

Let me rephrase, I think there should be less teachers.

 

[Cearbhall]

Let me rephrase, I think there should be less teachers.

That's fine, but I don't see what it has to do with this topic.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What do you think of women being pastors?

As long as they can live out their vocation faithfully administering Word and Sacrament I don't see a problem with female clergy.

The biblical and theological arguments which I've heard in opposition to the ordination of women have largely seemed to me to fall rather flat. I can think of nothing in Scripture which would flat out forbid women from ordination, and I don't think the argument that the Apostles were all men and therefore bishops and presbyters have to be men is particular convincing either, for two reasons:

1. Scripture and Tradition knows of female apostles (e.g. St. Junia).
2. If only the Twelve are intended, well it would be little different than saying only Jews can be ordained because the Apostles were all exclusively Jewish.

The other theological argument I am familiar with is that since pastors stand and speak in Christ's stead, and since Christ was male, they must be male too. Again, the weakness of this argument is the same as point 2 offered above: Christ was a circumcised Jew but that doesn't mean only circumcised Jews can be ordained.

The biggest argument really is just that the Church, historically, never ordained women as bishops and presbyters that we are aware of (and claims to the contrary I have generally found to be somewhat unconvincing as well). But I don't know that this is a good enough reason. For Roman Catholics and Orthodox there are big-T Tradition reasons, as well as established dogmatic reasons so I don't expect either of these two communions to change in this regard. So from within the framework of their ecclesiological teachings the issue is settled: women can't be priests or bishops. Full stop. For those of us who do not subscribe to these things the issue, I'd argue, remains open.

So my three-pronged argument would be thus:

1. There is no biblical prohibition against the ordination of women.
2. Theological arguments seem (at least to me) weak at best.
3. Simply because it hasn't been done, historically, doesn't mean it should remain that way. Not without compelling biblical and theological justification anyway.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's also argued that the no women preaching was more a cultural thing due to how common priestesses were in the Roman religion, or like you said, how women were valued in Judaism, but it's also possible to be some combination of both. Regardless, I agree that it's a commandment that I believe no longer applies to us today.

There's debate as to whether or not the Pastorals were even written by St. Paul, but assuming they were if we take this one passage and isolate it we end up running into a lot of problems; namely that elsewhere the New Testament--and Paul himself--doesn't take issue with women teaching and having positions of importance within the Church. If this were the only statement that Paul ever made, that might be one thing; but when the overwhelming witness of the Pauline literary corpus shows us that it's okay for women to preach and speak in the context of church, and it's okay for women to teach (Paul names a number of women whom he refers to as fellow co-workers in the Gospel) and we have a clear example of a woman teaching a man in the case of St. Priscilla teaching Apollos in the Acts of the Apostles.

Assuming Pauline authorship of the epistle here, it clearly needs to be read within the wider context of Pauline thought, not taken and isolated as though it stands on its own, at face value, no questions asked.

Of course if Paul isn't the author it's entirely possible that the pseudonymous author does have views which may have been in conflict with the rest of Paul; but since it is still Scripture it still needs to be read in light of and within the wider body of Scripture and not taken and isolated on its own.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[timewerx]

Its also unwise for woman to want to be a teacher of men. Woman are instructed to teach other woman how to be godly woman, and to love and respect their husbands. If they are not teaching that they are not teaching anything.

Such teachings are also applicable to men.

However, that teaching is not absolute. Christ did not institute a blind allegiance to authority or to any form of binding.

Matthew 10:35-36;37

35For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'"37Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

This means, even submission/obedience to parents or any authority has its limits. If God's Words are being compromised, then one should put their foot down and say "no".

 

[W2L]

That's fine, but I don't see what it has to do with this topic.

Don't ask then.

 

[Cearbhall]

The greatest in the kingdom will be the least. That's the right way for us all. It is unwise to desire authority.

I desire to serve and to put my skills to good use.

 

[W2L]

I desire to serve and to put my skills to good use.

I'm not stopping you.

 

[John Davidson]

What do you think of women being pastors?

Its an AntiChristian abomination.

 

[DawnStar]

Its an AntiChristian abomination.

Your opinion only. There are verses in the bible that state what God thinks is sin. Women being pastors is not one of them.

 

[Cearbhall]

Its an AntiChristian abomination.

And your logic is...?

 

[John Davidson]

Your opinion only. There are verses in the bible that state what God thinks is sin. Women being pastors is not one of them.

Post #3 of this thread adequately addresses this topic.

 

[DawnStar]

Post #3 of this thread adequately addresses this topic.

Not to the point where you state it is an abomination. Not even close.

 

[W2L]

I'm glad I don't go to Church anymore. People would rather argue over authority rather than submit to God. Woman are wrong to do this. They should teach other woman and stop trying to cause needles discord. Its unspiritual.

 

[Cearbhall]

I'm glad I don't go to Church anymore. People would rather argue over authority rather than submit to God. Woman are wrong to do this.

But men aren't?

 

[W2L]

But men aren't?

You only prove that you lack any understanding and are not qualified to teach anything. I'm not trying be mean, but you don't grasp the concept of peace and edification.

 

[CCHIPSS]

of course they do

go with a group of women to a movie theatre that is playing a Channing Tatum movie and you will hear that women can be as lustful as men

or just the fact that a Pastor is an authority figure, normally a bit older, and a lot of women have daddy issues / attracted to men in authority


it is kind of interesting that people are going after "low hanging fruit"
I try to give an fairly in depth post on the issue, and it is ignored, while comments like this get tons of replies

There are so many cases of male pastors having sex with female members of his church, I got to agree.