Women Pastors?

[Cearbhall]

Yep, me too. The autistic snobbery is too much for me to handle.

I can think of dozens of insults that would have made more sense.

It's so fascinating that you think wanting to be a preacher is snobbery.

 

[W2L]

I can think of dozens of insults that would have made more sense.

It's so fascinating that you think wanting to be a preacher is snobbery.

You are not even a Christian. Perhaps you might tone down the rhetoric and allow others to do the preaching.

 

[Cearbhall]

You are not even a Christian. Perhaps you might tone down the rhetoric and allow others to do the preaching.

No, thank you.

 

[SnowyMacie]

You are not even a Christian. Perhaps you might tone down the rhetoric and allow others to do the preaching.

Several Christians in this thread agree with her.

 

[Cearbhall]

Several Christians in this thread agree with her.

And what's more, I'm seriously considering becoming a minister in the future.

 

[Deadworm]

I used to teach a Women and Religion course at a major Catholic university. The course attracted an average of 135 students a semester. To get their attention, my first question was, "Who can identify the woman who invented the Roman Catholic church?" After a few amused looks, I explained that Priscilla is the most likely candidate as the founder of the church of Rome--and then I explained in detail why. (I later told them I was only kidding about the word "invented!")

Paul is the greatest champion of female church leadership the church has ever seen. Romans 16 is basically a reference letter for Phoebe, a female minister, and among the women Paul celebrates is Junia, a female apostle. I could go on with more examples, but let me say this first: The misconception that Paul opposes female church leadership rests on 2 false assumptions: (1) that Paul wrote the Pastoral Epistles and hence 1 Timothy 2:11-15 and (2) that 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is an original part of the letter. There are at least 5 good reasons for treating the latter text as a later interpolation and the current scholarly consensus rejects Pauline authorship of the Pastoral epistles.

In view of the evident ignorance of the case for these claims, I intend soon to start a new thread spelling out the evidence in detail. Consider this post a commercial.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I used to teach a Women and Religion course at a major Catholic university. The course attracted an average of 135 students a semester. To get their attention, my first question was, "Who can identify the woman who invented the Roman Catholic church?" After a few amused looks, I explained that Priscilla is the most likely candidate as the founder of the church of Rome--and then I explained in detail why. (I later told them I was only kidding about the word "invented!")

Paul is the greatest champion of female church leadership the church has ever seen. Romans 16 is basically a reference letter for Phoebe, a female minister, and among the women Paul celebrates is Junia, a female apostle. I could go on with more examples, but let me say this first: The misconception that Paul opposes female church leadership rests on 2 false assumptions: (1) that Paul wrote the Pastoral Epistles and hence 1 Timothy 2:11-15 and (2) that 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is an original part of the letter. There are at least 5 good reasons for treating the latter text as a later interpolation and the current scholarly consensus rejects Pauline authorship of the Pastoral epistles.

In view of the evident ignorance of the case for these claims, I intend soon to start a new thread spelling out the evidence in detail. Consider this post a commercial.

What do you think about the theory of Priscilla writing Hebrews?

 

[SnowyMacie]

And what's more, I'm seriously considering becoming a minister in the future.

Cool. For the Unitarian Universalist Church?

 

[Cearbhall]

Cool. For the Unitarian Universalist Church?

Yes.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Yes.

Cool. I've always wanted to go to a UU church, just to see what it's like.

 

[W2L]

That's not the point.

 

[Rhamiel]

A woman does not lust after men

of course they do

go with a group of women to a movie theatre that is playing a Channing Tatum movie and you will hear that women can be as lustful as men

or just the fact that a Pastor is an authority figure, normally a bit older, and a lot of women have daddy issues / attracted to men in authority


it is kind of interesting that people are going after "low hanging fruit"
I try to give an fairly in depth post on the issue, and it is ignored, while comments like this get tons of replies

 

[W2L]

This is one reason, among many, that I don't even follow preachers anymore.

 

[Cearbhall]

That's not the point.

To whom are you speaking?

it is kind of interesting that people are going after "low hanging fruit"
I try to give an fairly in depth post on the issue, and it is ignored, while comments like this get tons of replies

I'll admit that I sometimes get lazy and go after the blatantly weak statements that people have made in a thread. My apologies. I always admire your posts.

 

[W2L]

To whom are you speaking?

Sorry, I hit reply but something went wrong. It doesn't matter anyway. As I said, I don't follow preachers. I follow the apostles. Less contention that way.

 

[Deadworm]

TX_Matt: "What do you think about the theory of Priscilla writing Hebrews?"

Well, the author writes from Italy and Priscilla starts house churches there. The author also expects to meet with Timothy when he gets out of jail (13:23-24) and Timothy moves in the same circles as Priscilla and Apollos. Oddly, what uniquely commends Priscilla's authorship is the fact that the author's name is suppressed. No other NT document is anonymous in this way. Maybe Priscilla thought she needed to be anonymous to get sexist men to read Hebrews. The 2 best candidates for authorship are Priscilla and Apollos.

 

[W2L]

In my opinion, its foolish to want to be a preacher anyway. You will be subjected to great hardship that purifies a mans soul, if that is you are actually following the spirit, and preachers will be held to a greater degree of judgment as well.

Its also unwise for woman to want to be a teacher of men. Woman are instructed to teach other woman how to be godly woman, and to love and respect their husbands. If they are not teaching that they are not teaching anything.

The greatest in the kingdom will be the least. That's the right way for us all. It is unwise to desire authority. There are many bad teachers out there and they will be held accountable. The doctrine that teachers are supposed to teach is pretty simple actually, its about humbleness and love, not loftiness and authority. A wise person we will seek to lead by example, not by words.

 

[timewerx]

Except when he wrote that phrase in 2 Timothy, scripture was not his letters to the various churches. Man made them scripture. Please do not give us a lecture on why his letters were made scripture. I have heard them all. As far as I am concerned there are Christians out there who should be called Paulians. Some totally ignore what Jesus did or did not say and go with what Paul said.
Men have subjugated women for centuries. What Paul wrote just gave Christian men a reason to keep subjugating women. And they love it. Again he said I do not permit. Not God will not permit. Men are the ones who have decided Paul was speaking for God when he wrote that statement.

Those are my thoughts as well. Paul is very specific in his target audience.

They were adapted teachings as per region/culture. It's doubtful they were ever meant for the modern Western Culture. They were more like "pastor's notes"

The real scripture Jesus was referring to is not the same one we are using today. Christ did not approve the creation of the "New Testament"....Even our Old Testament / Torah is mostly Pharisee/Judaism material. The Torah forbids adding to scripture and the New Testament would be a major contradiction to that.

The real scripture would pre-date Christ and would already contain all His teachings - not all is found in the Old Testament. The rest are in scriptures that were excluded from Canon which certainly proves those who put the Bible together were not divinely inspired. Why else would wicked men swear on the Bible (Which ironically the Bible forbids!) and not be struck by lightning where they stood?

All-in-all the Bible we use today does not have Christ's approval. Ironically, it is written in John 16:13 and 1 John 2:27, the Spirit of Truth is all that we need to know about God's Words.

 

[W2L]

Those are my thoughts as well. Paul is very specific in his target audience.

They were adapted teachings as per region/culture. It's doubtful they were ever meant for the modern Western Culture. They were more like "pastor's notes"

The real scripture Jesus was referring to is not the same one we are using today. Christ did not approve the creation of the "New Testament"....Even our Old Testament / Torah is mostly Pharisee/Judaism material. The Torah forbids adding to scripture and the New Testament would be a major contradiction to that.

The real scripture would pre-date Christ and would already contain all His teachings - not all is found in the Old Testament. The rest are in scriptures that were excluded from Canon which certainly proves those who put the Bible together were not divinely inspired. Why else would wicked men swear on the Bible (Which ironically the Bible forbids!) and not be struck by lightning where they stood?

All-in-all the Bible we use today does not have Christ's approval. Ironically, it is written in John 16:13 and 1 John 2:27, the Spirit of Truth is all that we need to know about God's Words.

Lets say you are right. What would the spirit of truth tell us now? In my opinion it would tell us to seek peace and sound doctrine. Most teachers are clueless, even women, in my opinion. We need less teachers not more. Woman can teach woman, and men can teach men. It seems like an obvious compromise that would bring peace. Most things that teachers teach today, such as prosperity doctrine and denomination specific theology, its just not sound doctrine in my opinion. The doctrine is simple. Husbands love your wives, wives respect your husbands, children obey your parents. Do what is just and good, be humble, submit to each other, give God thanks in Jesus name in all things. Do not love the world, seek the kingdom.

Why do we need teachers to teach us these things? We should be teaching each other these things. Woman should teach woman how to live, and men teach men. and its not very much we need to learn anyway. If we need a teacher is shows that we are clueless because the doctrine of Christ isn't complicated at all. Usually teachers are needed to tell us what we want to hear as apposed to what the apostles have already taught us. Paul told timothy that a time would come when people would no longer endure sound doctrine but would instead heap to themselves teachers to tell them what they want to hear, instead of the truth.

 

[timewerx]

Lets say you are right. What would the spirit of truth tell us now? In my opinion it would tell us to seek peace and sound doctrine.

Perhaps, but this "sound doctrine" could be had even if you're stuck in an island with no Bible, nor any other human. The Spirit can teach you things directly.

Otherwise, do those who were born in places who never heard Christianity, never had a Bible, never seen a missionary. If they die, do they automatically go to hell?

Why do we need teachers to teach us these things? We should be teaching each other these things. Woman should teach woman how to live, and men teach men. and its not very much we need to learn anyway. If we need a teacher is shows that we are clueless because the doctrine of Christ isn't complicated at all. Usually teachers are needed to tell us what we want to hear as apposed to what the apostles have already taught us. Paul told timothy that a time would come when people would no longer endure sound doctrine but would instead heap to themselves teachers to tell them what they want to hear, instead of the truth.

Jeremiah prophesied how the New Covenant will be - Jeremiah 31:33-34.

Prophesy fulfilled - 1 John 2:27

It says "no more teaching".

The Disciples only meant to set the ball rolling, that is to have the anointing. Beyond that, you are on your own.

"Make disciples" not the same as "build/setup churches".