Women ordination, can somebody help explain?

[riesie]

Dear Wesleyan, Methodists and Nazarenes,

I'm looking for a new denomination and I'm very attracted to the Church of the Nazarene. For me it is important to be in a sola scriptura church. I found whole denominations split over the ordination of women. It appears to me that most info on the net is against the ordination of women. Please correct me if an wrong with things here. But for the denominations of this thread it is right to ordain women. I'm looking for solid proof why it is ok to ordain woman. I think for Jesus also had woman apostles women can be ordained right? Apostles did spread the word, so they preached, so woman of the first church did preach and their where preachers. Or is this to simplistic?

I'd really appreciate your help and tips.
May God bless you and this group.
Richard

 

[Gregorikos]

Dear Wesleyan, Methodists and Nazarenes,

I'm looking for a new denomination and I'm very attracted to the Church of the Nazarene. For me it is important to be in a sola scriptura church. I found whole denominations split over the ordination of women. It appears to me that most info on the net is against the ordination of women. Please correct me if an wrong with things here. But for the denominations of this thread it is right to ordain women. I'm looking for solid proof why it is ok to ordain woman. I think for Jesus also had woman apostles women can be ordained right? Apostles did spread the word, so they preached, so woman of the first church did preach and their where preachers. Or is this to simplistic?

I'd really appreciate your help and tips.
May God bless you and this group.
Richard

Welcome Richard! May the Lord guide you in your search.

You are correct about the division. Gender roles in general, and women's ordination in particular has been one of the most divisive debates that we've ever seen. The denominations of this board do believe it is right to ordain women.

The best resource I can share with you is from the Assemblies of God. I hope it's OK to post it here- it's just that of all my resources it best fits what you are looking for.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | The Role of Women in Ministry

I think you are on track with your understanding of a woman apostle. Mary Magdalene is sometimes referred to as "the apostle to the apostles" because Jesus sent her to them to tell them about him. But the Bible doesn't ever call her an apostle. The only woman called an apostle in the Bible is Junia in Romans 16:7. Of course, people have found ways to discredit Junia, either that it was really a man named Junias, or that it was a woman, but she wasn't an apostle! But I believe she was an apostle.

I hope the paper above is helpful, and I am looking forward to what others post.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I think for Jesus also had woman apostles women can be ordained right? Apostles did spread the word, so they preached, so woman of the first church did preach and their where preachers. Or is this to simplistic?

Jesus did not have any female apostles! (Gnostics are the only people in the ancient church who believed in this, making Mary Magdalene the true apostle of Christ).


The modern notion of female apostles comes from a few remarks made in passing concerning a person called Junia, as well as the couple Priscilla and Aquila in the book of Acts, and maybe a comment or two said in the epistles and that is it. e.g. Like mentioning the great work of people like Phoebe who was a Deaconess.


People also use Galatians 3:28 to justify woman's ordination. This can be challenged if you look at the specifics what went on in the Early Church from Jesus to the Apostolic Fathers.


FYI - I was in the Charismatic movement, the prophetic movement when all the "New Apostolic Reformation" stuff was just getting started before even that name was coined.

 

[riesie]

Welcome Richard! May the Lord guide you in your search.

You are correct about the division. Gender roles in general, and women's ordination in particular has been one of the most divisive debates that we've ever seen. The denominations of this board do believe it is right to ordain women.

The best resource I can share with you is from the Assemblies of God. I hope it's OK to post it here- it's just that of all my resources it best fits what you are looking for.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | The Role of Women in Ministry

I think you are on track with your understanding of a woman apostle. Mary Magdalene is sometimes referred to as "the apostle to the apostles" because Jesus sent her to them to tell them about him. But the Bible doesn't ever call her an apostle. The only woman called an apostle in the Bible is Junia in Romans 16:7. Of course, people have found ways to discredit Junia, either that it was really a man named Junias, or that it was a woman, but she wasn't an apostle! But I believe she was an apostle.

I hope the paper above is helpful, and I am looking forward to what others post.

Thanks a lot @Gregorikos super helpful!

 

[riesie]

Jesus did not have any female apostles! (Gnostics are the only people in the ancient church who believed in this, making Mary Magdalene the true apostle of Christ).
The modern notion of female apostles comes from a few remarks made in passing concerning a person called Junia, as well as the couple Priscilla and Aquila in the book of Acts, and maybe a comment or two said in the epistles and that is it. e.g. Like mentioning the great work of people like Phoebe who was a Deaconess.


People also use Galatians 3:28 to justify woman's ordination. This can be challenged if you look at the specifics what went on in the Early Church from Jesus to the Apostolic Fathers.


FYI - I was in the Charismatic movement, the prophetic movement when all the "New Apostolic Reformation" stuff was just getting started before even that name was coined.

Thanks a lot for your insights!

 

[com7fy8]

I'm looking for a new denomination and I'm very attracted to the Church of the Nazarene. For me it is important to be in a sola scriptura church. I found whole denominations split over the ordination of women.

Posting as a guest here . . .

Yes, I can see that the Nazarene group could be into the Bible.

I do not know the official stand of Nazarenes about ordaining women. But whatever is their official stand, you can find people who are different, inside a denomination.

So, it could be good to find a pastor and church which does you good the way the Bible says that God uses His ministry. Whoever you belong with might not go along with certain official items of the person's official church group.

One thing I might have seen with both men and women is how ones can be bossing and getting stressed out, instead of leading by example and obeying how Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" while we do what He wants >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

You can tell if Jesus is giving you more and more rest because you do what He has you doing. And do not get entangled and emotionally mangled in what He is not guiding you to do! He will prove Himself and His ministry to you in His rest.

But, after knowing some number of female pastors, I suspect there are women who have called themselves. And so they are not acting in the strength of Jesus, because they are not obeying Him; and so they can break down in self-control problems of ill-tempered relating and food abuse and stressing out. And, meanwhile, there is also trouble from outside themselves, of the typical backlash which can come against any ordained woman. But because of their own weakness in not obeying Jesus, it is easier for those attacks to get the better of them, and then they might play the "victim", as though the persecution is their main trouble.

But Mary Magdalene did what Jesus told her to do. I would say she had the ability to relate closely with Jesus, so she could be used for what Jesus had her do. Possibly, she was more humble than the men so she could share with Jesus and do what mattered, whether she was an apostle or not.

And we have Mary who sat at Jesus' feet, instead of running around crazy like her sister Martha > Luke 10:38-42 > this Mary possibly was not an apostle, but she got more out of being with Jesus, than it seems the apostles did. They were just fussing about which was the greatest, trying to get status out of being with Jesus . . . while Mary was wise to stay at Jesus' feet and hear Him.

And how much can you give, if you aren't getting anything??

Plus, about whom do we hear the most? Mary who is our example of choosing "that good part" at Jesus' feet . . . or the guys who were fussing and fighting? Who feeds us more good example?

 

[riesie]

Posting as a guest here . . .

Yes, I can see that the Nazarene group could be into the Bible.

I do not know the official stand of Nazarenes about ordaining women. But whatever is their official stand, you can find people who are different, inside a denomination.

So, it could be good to find a pastor and church which does you good the way the Bible says that God uses His ministry. Whoever you belong with might not go along with certain official items of the person's official church group.

One thing I might have seen with both men and women is how ones can be bossing and getting stressed out, instead of leading by example and obeying how Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" while we do what He wants >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

You can tell if Jesus is giving you more and more rest because you do what He has you doing. And do not get entangled and emotionally mangled in what He is not guiding you to do! He will prove Himself and His ministry to you in His rest.

But, after knowing some number of female pastors, I suspect there are women who have called themselves. And so they are not acting in the strength of Jesus, because they are not obeying Him; and so they can break down in self-control problems of ill-tempered relating and food abuse and stressing out. And, meanwhile, there is also trouble from outside themselves, of the typical backlash which can come against any ordained woman. But because of their own weakness in not obeying Jesus, it is easier for those attacks to get the better of them, and then they might play the "victim", as though the persecution is their main trouble.

But Mary Magdalene did what Jesus told her to do. I would say she had the ability to relate closely with Jesus, so she could be used for what Jesus had her do. Possibly, she was more humble than the men so she could share with Jesus and do what mattered, whether she was an apostle or not.

And we have Mary who sat at Jesus' feet, instead of running around crazy like her sister Martha > Luke 10:38-42 > this Mary possibly was not an apostle, but she got more out of being with Jesus, than it seems the apostles did. They were just fussing about which was the greatest, trying to get status out of being with Jesus . . . while Mary was wise to stay at Jesus' feet and hear Him.

And how much can you give, if you aren't getting anything??

Plus, about whom do we hear the most? Mary who is our example of choosing "that good part" at Jesus' feet . . . or the guys who were fussing and fighting? Who feeds us more good example?

Thank you very much, super interesting and helpful!

 

[actionsub]

Posting as a guest here . . .

Yes, I can see that the Nazarene group could be into the Bible.

I do not know the official stand of Nazarenes about ordaining women. But whatever is their official stand, you can find people who are different, inside a denomination.

The Church of the Nazarene has been in favor of women's ordination since day one. The Nazarene church here in town is pastored by a young woman with a great deal of spiritual maturity.

 

[riesie]

The Church of the Nazarene has been in favor of women's ordination since day one. The Nazarene church here in town is pastored by a young woman with a great deal of spiritual maturity.

Thanks you very much for the reply!

 

[ServantJohn]

Dear Wesleyan, Methodists and Nazarenes,

I'm looking for a new denomination and I'm very attracted to the Church of the Nazarene. For me it is important to be in a sola scriptura church. I found whole denominations split over the ordination of women. It appears to me that most info on the net is against the ordination of women. Please correct me if an wrong with things here. But for the denominations of this thread it is right to ordain women. I'm looking for solid proof why it is ok to ordain woman. I think for Jesus also had woman apostles women can be ordained right? Apostles did spread the word, so they preached, so woman of the first church did preach and their where preachers. Or is this to simplistic?

I'd really appreciate your help and tips.
May God bless you and this group.
Richard